Happy Reformation Day!!

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I didn’t discuss mod actions.

Of course not.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Well I'll depart this thread.
Enjoy your reformation day everybody...

 

[paul1149]

Hubris and pride was then as now the driving force in all Protestantism

There is fault all around, but going back 500 years, how different things might have been had Pope Leo not reacted with hubris and pride to some very sound criticisms of the church.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

There is fault all around, but going back 500 years, how different things might have been had Pope Leo not reacted with hubris and pride to some very sound criticisms of the church.

I said I'll depart and I will, but I had to answer this post before I go.

You're absolutely correct. Crd Cajetan agreed with some of Luther's thesis, but his word too fell for deaf ears.

Its the sum of the reformation that cannot be accepted nor appreciated as I see it, but let there be no doubt the hubris of both Leo X and Luther was less than fruitful.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Happy Reformation day!!

https://plus.google.com/+ligonierministries/posts/TQenX7WZKXL




The roman church at Trent: - CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

CANON 12 - Ifany one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified, let him be accursed

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial, - except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

Oh, I would never be so naive as to subscribe to the Once Saved Always Saved notion...nor did Luther!

 

[Lulav]

As we all know this subject is volatile
please keep in mind the rules which means

It is a special Anniversary for some folks
please let them enjoy it.
If we receive too many reports
this will be closed permanently.
​

 

[disciple1]

Happy Reformation day!!

https://plus.google.com/+ligonierministries/posts/TQenX7WZKXL




The roman church at Trent: - CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

CANON 12 - Ifany one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified, let him be accursed

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial, - except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

I don't think I understand what your saying.
Proverbs chapter 10 verse 12
Love covers all wrongs.

And it's only by love we're saved.


Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

[BBAS 64]

Oh, I would never be so naive as to subscribe to the Once Saved Always Saved notion...nor did Luther!

Good Day,

Why would you think that Reformation Day has anything to do with once saved always saved..?

nor did Luther... well um.. um yeah... ok, unless you see him as infallible and that has a place in Reformation day?

In Him

Bill

 

[faroukfarouk]

The most important question we have as human beings, is "what must I do to be saved?"

There is only One Answer. (And that Answer has never changed).

Amen .

 

[BBAS 64]

 

[Phil 1:21]

 

[Swan7]

sigh

The OP sounds so far from God's Word.. it deeply saddens me. It's not about our will at all, but God's will. It's not about our works, but God's work through us - that we do good works. We need His strength and not lean on ourselves or our own understanding. There's a reason why God allowed tension in my heart from going down a wrong path - a path that would lead me away from Him.

This is all I can and will say about the matter.

 

[redleghunter]

It was a reaction to the sale of indulgences, like this:


View attachment 211511

Text: By the power of all that is holy and in compassion for thee, I absolve thee from all sins and misdeeds and release thee from all punishments for ten days.

The mercy of God is free to all who repent. It’s not for sale, from hucksters like Tetzel. Something had to be done to address this.

Yes and here is an account of the bad fruit produced Leo:

Pope Leo X (A.D. 1475-1521) commissioned John Tetzel, a Dominican monk, to travel throughout Germany selling indulgences on behalf of the Church. Tetzel declared that as soon as the coins “clinked” in his money chest, the souls of those for whom the indulgences had been purchased would fly out of purgatory.

These indulgences not only bestowed pardon for sins committed already, they were used to license the commission of futuretransgressions as well. In the classic volume, The Life and Times of Martin Luther, noted historian Merle D’Aubigne relates an amusing episode relative to this practice.

A certain Saxon nobleman heard John Tetzel proclaiming his doctrine of indulgences, and the gentleman was much aggravated at this perversion of truth. Accordingly, he approached the monk one day and inquired as to whether he might purchase an indulgence for a sin he intended to commit.

“Most assuredly,” replied Tetzel, “I have received full powers from his holiness for that purpose.” After some haggling, a fee of thirty crowns was agreed upon, and the nobleman departed.

Together with some friends, he hid himself in a nearby forest. Presently, as Tetzel journeyed that way, the knight and his mischievous companions fell upon the papal salesman, gave him a light beating, and relieved him of his money, apparently taking no pains to disguise themselves.

Tetzel was enraged by the foul deed and filed suit in the courts. When the nobleman appeared as the defendant, he produced the letter of exemption containing John Tetzel’s personal signature, which absolved the Saxon of any liability. When Duke George (the judge before whom the action was brought) examined the document, exasperated though he was, he ordered the accused to be released.

Error is its own worst enemy!

Sources
D’Aubigne, J.H. Merle, The Life and Times of Martin Luther(Chicago: Moody, 1955), p. 103.

 

[redleghunter]

sigh

The OP sounds so far from God's Word.. it deeply saddens me. It's not about our will at all, but God's will. It's not about our works, but God's work through us - that we do good works. We need His strength and not lean on ourselves or our own understanding. There's a reason why God allowed tension in my heart from going down a wrong path - a path that would lead me away from Him.

This is all I can and will say about the matter.

See pic in signature block. I agree.

 

[redleghunter]

It won’t do to say that, at some point, the Reformation ceased to be needed. It never was needed, and, like bad movements throughout history, it brought more grief than good. It was, and to a certain extent remains, a powerful historical force, one that we should keep in memory by commemorating it—but not by celebrating it.

It was long overdue.

Pope Leo X (A.D. 1475-1521) commissioned John Tetzel, a Dominican monk, to travel throughout Germany selling indulgences on behalf of the Church. Tetzel declared that as soon as the coins “clinked” in his money chest, the souls of those for whom the indulgences had been purchased would fly out of purgatory.

These indulgences not only bestowed pardon for sins committed already, they were used to license the commission of futuretransgressions as well. In the classic volume, The Life and Times of Martin Luther, noted historian Merle D’Aubigne relates an amusing episode relative to this practice.

A certain Saxon nobleman heard John Tetzel proclaiming his doctrine of indulgences, and the gentleman was much aggravated at this perversion of truth. Accordingly, he approached the monk one day and inquired as to whether he might purchase an indulgence for a sin he intended to commit.

“Most assuredly,” replied Tetzel, “I have received full powers from his holiness for that purpose.” After some haggling, a fee of thirty crowns was agreed upon, and the nobleman departed.

Together with some friends, he hid himself in a nearby forest. Presently, as Tetzel journeyed that way, the knight and his mischievous companions fell upon the papal salesman, gave him a light beating, and relieved him of his money, apparently taking no pains to disguise themselves.

Tetzel was enraged by the foul deed and filed suit in the courts. When the nobleman appeared as the defendant, he produced the letter of exemption containing John Tetzel’s personal signature, which absolved the Saxon of any liability. When Duke George (the judge before whom the action was brought) examined the document, exasperated though he was, he ordered the accused to be released.

Error is its own worst enemy!

Sources
D’Aubigne, J.H. Merle, The Life and Times of Martin Luther(Chicago: Moody, 1955), p. 103.

 

[tz620q]

Sources
D’Aubigne, J.H. Merle, The Life and Times of Martin Luther(Chicago: Moody, 1955), p. 103.

D'Aubigne, really!! Now there's a historian with an axe to grind.

 

[redleghunter]

D'Aubigne, really!! Now there's a historian with an axe to grind.

Hey it's a great story.

 

[TaiKamiya720]

Happy Reformation day!!

https://plus.google.com/+ligonierministries/posts/TQenX7WZKXL




The roman church at Trent: - CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

CANON 12 - Ifany one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified, let him be accursed

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial, - except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

This is taken out of context. I used to be a Catholic and was born and raised a Catholic. If you took the time to look at the context, what the Catholics believe about saving faith and works, you would see what Catholics and Protestants believe about the relation between faith and obedience/repentance is pretty much the same expression; real faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin.
The Catholic Church does NOT believe faith AND works are required for salvation. In fact, the Council of Catharage in 418 AD, condemned earning salvation by works as heresy. What Canon 9 is saying is speaking against "easy-believism", in which you just believe in Jesus without any fruitful obedience. The Cathecism teaches that in CCC 402, CCC 2000, and CCC 1989, we cannot get to salvation by our own works. Only by God's grace through Jesus, we can be saved.

 

[redleghunter]

The Anglican Church had broken off from the Catholic Church

I've heard from Anglicans it's the other way around.

Perhaps @Albion can properly set me straight on their historical view.

 

[amariselle]

This is taken out of context. I used to be a Catholic and was born and raised a Catholic. If you took the time to look at the context, what the Catholics believe about saving faith and works, you would see what Catholics and Protestants believe about the relation between faith and obedience/repentance is pretty much the same expression; real faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin.
The Catholic Church does NOT believe faith AND works are required for salvation. In fact, the Council of Catharage in 418 AD, condemned earning salvation by works as heresy. What Canon 9 is saying is speaking against "easy-believism", in which you just believe in Jesus without any fruitful obedience. The Cathecism teaches that in CCC 402, CCC 2000, and CCC 1989, we cannot get to salvation by our own works. Only by God's grace through Jesus, we can be saved.

So, how do we know when we have enough "fruitful obedience" to be sure of salvation?