Halloween or not?

[yeshuaskid]

We don't do Santa. We teach our daughter about Jesus and then explain who Saint Nicholas was. Her gifts come from us. We don't do the Easter Bunny, either. I guess, the only thing we really do is...Halloween and that's because we feel we can personally witness to our neighbors. They can't miss the costumes, signs, christian-carved pumpkins and christian candy. Well, I guess they could but, it's an attempt.

 

[Evie]

I have no idea what to do in regards to this topic so I guess I am looking for some help here. My husband and I have a 2 and a 3 year old. We have already decide to forgo the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus, But what about Halloween. I am very confused as to why some people thing that this modern day activity has to be related to devil worshipping and witches. I am 26 and have dressed up at least 20 of those Halloweens and never once had evil thoughts. I have also found lots of info on All Hallows Eve, and is it OK to celebrate within this context of the holiday? Help. Vanessa

I take both my boys dressed up in decent costumes(nothing spooky) to my sister's,gramma's and such that way they don't feel so left out,then we come home. We have gone to our church kids night out also on that night. We don't do the whole Santa,Tooth Fairy or the Easter bunny thing at all. Our children know the truth about each of them. I believe we do not need to convict one another about these issues,but we do need to listen to God instead.

 

[Trisa]

I used to do Halloween until we moved to a new town
where the church had Harvest Night.
While the kids played games the adults watched a movie
all about Halloween. I was shocked as I watched!
I will never celebrate it again. This movie said halloween is the holiday
that real witches love best. They even had real witches in the movie that
told all about what they do on that night and why they love this holiday.
I even broght it home and let my 9 year old watch it and he said mom I don't
think God would like us to trick or treat anymore! Plus alot of the homes you
trick or treat at have such demon looking stuff for decorations. I just really
think it must make God sad that we would celebrate such a holiday.
Just how I feel. I don't look down at people who still do. If I had not seen the movie I may still be doing the Halloween thing.

 

[Andry]

Don't mean to sound too pedantic, but if we truly believed that the Kingdom of God is within us, then something of the life of God should be manifesting from us all the time - in our relationships, in our circumstances, and in our surroundings.

Jesus said he was building a church whereby even the gates of hell will not prevail. That church is us. Should we not be going to where witches and goblins and other 'evil' stuff dwells? Or do we just stay inside our comfort zones and celebrate harvest festivals amongst the brethren. What about the lost? Oh, right, they're not in our little club. And if we went to a house with witches stickers or goblin decals, we might become possessed right?

To each their own - and with the greatest respect. But my son and I are looking forward to Halloween.

 

[selune]

We had a blast at our first Halloween party tonight. It was related to a race. Saw lots of people dressed up and having fun and absolutely no trace of possession going on (unless you count the little kids dancing like silly to the music...)

 

[Andy Broadley]

I'd just like to back up what Crofter said about halloween on the first page of this thread:

Halloween
'Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter. '

It became known as Halloween because the early Christians followed their usual ploy of discouraging the Celts from observing their pagan festivals by simply plonking a Christian festival on the same day, in this case All Hallows Eve (they did the same thing with Easter which coincides with the Celtic festival of Beltain - correct me if I'm wrong Crofter, my Celtic history is a little rudimentory). Anyway the Celtic and Christian festivals simply became entwined into what is now Halloween. However, it has nothing to do with witches, warlocks, monsters, devil worship or the like. I think this has much more to do with the marketing industry, never slow to recognise a profitable gravy train when they see one.

Yes we do let the kids do Halloween and devil worship doesn't come into it. I do have a problem with trick or treating, but only because the kids get all the sweets and I just get cold. Good news though. I don't have to go this year because the kids are going to a friends party, so I get to stay warm by the fire.

Another interesting thought, given the present war against terrorism. Every November 5th in the UK we celebrate Guy Fawkes night. For the benefit of our American friends, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up parliment a few hundred years ago. Should we really celebrate what was clearly an act of terrorism ?

 

[andiesmama]

Another interesting thought, given the present war against terrorism. Every November 5th in the UK we celebrate Guy Fawkes night. For the benefit of our American friends, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up parliment a few hundred years ago. Should we really celebrate what was clearly an act of terrorism ?

Now, this is totally off topic, but I'm always open to learning new stuff! And I promise, I'm not trying to be stupid on purpose or trying to start anything, I'm just really curious as to the details of that...he tried to blow it up, but there's a day that celebrates him? Would you mind elaborating? Thanks!!

 

[Cordy]

Hmmm… What is Halloween celebrating? What is it focusing on? Beyond the disturbing roots, in our time it appears to be a night where we allow make light of things that are evil and should be avoided rather than embraced. If witchcraft, demons, fear, terror etc. are things we are not supposed to take part in, then why do we take part in a day where these things become the focus? We might say to ourselves, so what… it is just for fun. To me, that is the most dangerous part. Things that are evil should not be integrated into our lives as light, happy matter. The Bible says to focus on things that are good and pure, and I don’t think taking part in Halloween activities encourages this.

 

[HeatherJay]

Well, I agree that Halloween is nothing but a fun day to focus on CANDY. My little ones will be dressing as princesses to go trick or treating. Our church will be having a Harvest Festival for the kids of town during the day (big, bouncy, air-filled jumping things and tunnels to play in, games for the kids to play, lots of candy and toys, cokes, and hotdogs, hay tunnels to crawl through, etc) and then, that night we'll be trick or treating. We're going to get a pumpkins this week sometime (going to the pumpkin patch is a tradition)...my husband has a really disgusting idea as to how to carve his. This is such a fun time of year.

 

[Andy Broadley]

Andiesmama - you said:

Now, this is totally off topic, but I'm always open to learning new stuff! And I promise, I'm not trying to be stupid on purpose or trying to start anything, I'm just really curious as to the details of that...he tried to blow it up, but there's a day that celebrates him? Would you mind elaborating? Thanks!!

Crofter, are you online mate ? I need you help on this one as your history is better than mine.

Briefly, as far as I can recall there was a Catholic plot to blow up the Protastant parlement. Barrels of gun powder were packed into the cellers below the parlement building, but the plotters were discovered before they could be ignited. The man they caught was called Guy Fawkes. he was tried, convicted and burnt at the stake.

On November 5th each year this is marked (celebrated was probably the wrong word) by the building of bonfires. An effigy of Guy Fawkes is then made by stuffing straw and old rags inside old clothes. This is then placed on top of the bonfire and burnt. Fireworks are also let off to signify the gunpowder used in the attempted attack (it's known in Britain as the gunpowder plot). Millions of pounds are spent by the British public on fireworks each year. Sadly, hundreds of people are also hurt by fireworks each year as well. Often, before it is put onn top of the fire, children will take it door to door and ask for a "penny for the Guy". However, I don't think this has anything to do with the origional custom. But here in Britain I would say that Bonfire night, as it is known, is a much bigger thing than Halloween.

Might sound a bit odd, but there it is.

Historians, if I've got the details wrong, please correct me.

 

[andiesmama]

Briefly, as far as I can recall there was a Catholic plot to blow up the Protastant parlement. Barrels of gun powder were packed into the cellers below the parlement building, but the plotters were discovered before they could be ignited. The man they caught was called Guy Fawkes. he was tried, convicted and burnt at the stake.

On November 5th each year this is marked (celebrated was probably the wrong word) by the building of bonfires. An effigy of Guy Fawkes is then made by stuffing straw and old rags inside old clothes. This is then placed on top of the bonfire and burnt. Fireworks are also let off to signify the gunpowder used in the attempted attack (it's known in Britain as the gunpowder plot). Millions of pounds are spent by the British public on fireworks each year. Sadly, hundreds of people are also hurt by fireworks each year as well. Often, before it is put onn top of the fire, children will take it door to door and ask for a "penny for the Guy". However, I don't think this has anything to do with the origional custom. But here in Britain I would say that Bonfire night, as it is known, is a much bigger thing than Halloween.

Might sound a bit odd, but there it is.

Historians, if I've got the details wrong, please correct me.

Thanks so much for the history lesson! That was really interesting! It sounds like it's alot bigger than Halloween!! As far as the fireworks, reminds me of our 4th of July!! Thanks again for the history lesson...

 

[Cordy]

Another interesting thought, given the present war against terrorism. Every November 5th in the UK we celebrate Guy Fawkes night. For the benefit of our American friends, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up parliment a few hundred years ago. Should we really celebrate what was clearly an act of terrorism ?

Interesting question.

I think most would say as long as we just focus on having fun or candy or materialism on this day, and not terrorism that the day is clearly celebrating, it is fine.

It is hard to find true balance.

 

[pmcleanj]

...(they did the same thing with Easter which coincides with the Celtic festival of Beltain - correct me if I'm wrong Crofter, my Celtic history is a little rudimentory). ...

Actually, it's Lady Day that coincides with Oestara.

Easter merely takes its name from Oestara's feast. And that only in English: in the other European languages Easter is called some variant of "Pasha", and takes it's name from pesach, or Passover. Easter's a lunar feast with its date fixed roughly according to the Christian calculation of the date for Passover; not coinciding with any of the reconstructed probably-Celtic feast-days which are all solar feasts.

Beltain coincides with the feast of St Philip and St James the Apostles with Saint James the Brother of the Lord, also known as Saint Walpurga's Day, also known as Holy Roodmas, also known as May Day.

'Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

Just for the sake of historical accuracy, the Celts did not keep written records of their beliefs or their religious practices, and existed across the entirety of northern Europe and across the better part of four millenia. So broad statements about what "the Celts" believed are approximations of historical fact, at best, and probably reflect only a fragment of what "the Celts" believed across the breadth of their culture. Also, "the Celts" did not use the Gregorian calendar until some time after Pope Gregory, so the dates of October 31 and November 1 would be meaningless to them.

What we do know about the probably-Celtic feasts that have become the basis of the neopagan reconstructed religion is that they

• were Christian feasts whose cultural importance is out of proportion to their religious importance
• Are Christian feasts that fall on the same days in different European regions, and have similar folk customs, but have different Christian names and customs
• are situated on significant dates in the solar year: solstices, equinoxes, or half-way between a solstice and an equinox

These empirical facts underpin the theory that the days were syncretically adopted by Christians from their Celtic cultural environment. But we shouldn't lose track of the fact that what we speculate about Celtic holidays is based on what we know about the Christian feast-days that occupied the solar-significant dates.

 

[Andy Broadley]

Thanks for that. I stand corrected.

 

[LADY DI]

Actually, it's Lady Day that coincides with Oestara.

Easter merely takes its name from Oestara's feast. And that only in English: in the other European languages Easter is called some variant of "Pasha", and takes it's name from pesach, or Passover. Easter's a lunar feast with its date fixed roughly according to the Christian calculation of the date for Passover; not coinciding with any of the reconstructed probably-Celtic feast-days which are all solar feasts.

Beltain coincides with the feast of St Philip and St James the Apostles with Saint James the Brother of the Lord, also known as Saint Walpurga's Day, also known as Holy Roodmas, also known as May Day.



Just for the sake of historical accuracy, the Celts did not keep written records of their beliefs or their religious practices, and existed across the entirety of northern Europe and across the better part of four millenia. So broad statements about what "the Celts" believed are approximations of historical fact, at best, and probably reflect only a fragment of what "the Celts" believed across the breadth of their culture. Also, "the Celts" did not use the Gregorian calendar until some time after Pope Gregory, so the dates of October 31 and November 1 would be meaningless to them.

What we do know about the probably-Celtic feasts that have become the basis of the neopagan reconstructed religion is that they

• were Christian feasts whose cultural importance is out of proportion to their religious importance
• Are Christian feasts that fall on the same days in different European regions, and have similar folk customs, but have different Christian names and customs
• are situated on significant dates in the solar year: solstices, equinoxes, or half-way between a solstice and an equinox

These empirical facts underpin the theory that the days were syncretically adopted by Christians from their Celtic cultural environment. But we shouldn't lose track of the fact that what we speculate about Celtic holidays is based on what we know about the Christian feast-days that occupied the solar-significant dates.

Well said pmcleanj!!!!

 

[Kelly]

My church has a harvest fest. Big letters at the bottom of the flyer say "NO COSTUMES". Well, tell that to my 5 year old who wants to be that evil, devil worshipping, magic using witch "Sleeping Beauty" this year. Or my 10 month old boy dressed as that demonic monster of satan "The Incredible Hulk". (ok, sarcasm off)

We'll be out in the neighborhood, meeting and greeting, walking with the neighbors and their kids (sometimes, the most one will ever talk to a neighbor a few houses down) while others from my church gather in yet another "holy huddle" that keeps the lamp of our faith hidden from the rest of the world and just for ourselves.

Perhaps when she's at an age when she no longer wants to go trick or treating, we'll check out Harvest Fest. There is nothing wrong with the holiday as it stands now and what it means for little children (dress-up first, candy second, a fun scare or two third).

 

[Andy Broadley]

Just like to quickly wrap this one up (at least for this year anyway) and say that three of our kids went to a Halloween party last night. Our six year old went as Count Dracula and won a prize as best boys costume (a plastic pumkin full of sweets).

He was over the moon about it. All he wants to do today is get to Sunday school so that he can tell everyone.

Let kids have fun. You are a long time grown up.

 

[pmcleanj]

And the six-year-olds in the Primary class wore their costumes to ballet yesterday. There were eight princesses, two [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-cats, Little-Red-Riding-Hood, and Little-Bo-Peep. Not a one of them looked satanic!

 

[Andry]

And the six-year-olds in the Primary class wore their costumes to ballet yesterday. There were eight princesses, two [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-cats, Little-Red-Riding-Hood, and Little-Bo-Peep. Not a one of them looked satanic!

I was at the BC - Saskatchewan CFL game last night (for you 'mericans, that's our version of football).

Some of the cheerleaders were dressed up too - as little red riding hood, little-bo-peep, and a few princesses.... and believe me, not one of the looked satanic either!

 

[Leanna]

I am not a fan of Halloween. We have a new baby this year and we didn't dress him up as anything. If I can avoid it, I will. I think its a dumb holiday, where we stuff our kids with enough candy to last through the new year. But if it comes between my son being involved or feeling left out, I will let him participate. For now, I don't have to worry about it and will not dress him up as anything while he is a baby. I don't like Halloween.