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Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Aldebaran, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Your claim was that I suffer more than you.
    Why would you be any easier a mark than I?
    Consider the possibility that white people do not have privilege. Consider the possibility that what you call privilege, is what everybody should experience, and those who don’t are being mistreated.
    Experiments are voluntary; this was forced.
    It doesn’t have to be sanctioned and legislated by College rules, all it takes is for the campus security to look the other way while racist thugs impose their racism on white people. Make no mistake, this was racial targeting.
    No, it was SLAVERY that was enabling racism!
    In those neighborhoods, THEY are the society. Again; the gang issue is mainly due to the breakdown of the family.
    What kind of proof are you looking for? Supporting roles for what? Jobs? There are black and white people who hold supporting roles on jobs, and there are black and white people who hold management roles on jobs. Both the supporting and management roles are dominated by white people. But even if this were not the case, because black people are seen everyday, it is the norm to see black people in this country. IMO it is more uncommon to live in a part of the country where you don’t see any black people
     
  2. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I disagree! The majority group has no say in it, it is the person himself who decides. I've seen people of mixed heritage so light skinned they don't even look black, and they claim to be black yet nobody refutes them on it. I've seen people with blue eyes and blond hair claiming to be Mexican and nobody refutes them on it. I've seen people half black and half white and they come out looking like Mexicans, yet they claim to be black yet nobody refutes them on that. It's not like there is some group of white people going around determining what everybody is to be identified as, that is left up to the person himself to decide. At birth, whatever the father identifies as is usually what the baby is called, but once the person gets old enough, he is allowed to decide for himself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  3. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I'm sure before taping, he told the white men in the audience to refrain from raising their hands. It is absurd to believe a poor white man with a fat wife, a run down truck who lives in a trailer would turn down millions, the most beautiful women in the world, the most expensive cars imaginable, a multimillion dollar house and world fame just because they want to hold on to their whiteness. Chris Rock has said a lot of stupid things during some of his comedy skits, he should never be taken seriously when he tells his jokes.
     
  4. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Of the 245,000,000 white people in this country, how many told you this nonsense? And what were they surprised to realize? That they actually thought this way??? You jokin' right?
     
  5. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I didn't say I didn't know about the tests, I only asked when was this one done.

    If these tests were done as recently as this century with the same results, this is an example of bad parenting. It's not like these 3 and 4 year old children are being influenced by evil white men who sneak up on them and quickly brainwash them when their parents aren't looking, children at this age are influenced by their parents. Their parents should do better than that!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  6. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Not pretending to be Japanese (whatever that means), just adopting their culture.
     
  7. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    I think we all know that if the "Jesus costume" started to gain popularity, so would its inevitable variant: the "Sexy Jesus costume." (it probably already has, but I really don't want to Google it).
    ...and Christianity is hardly what anyone would call "marginalized."

    The Golden Rule being what it is, it doesn't seem quite so terrible to stop and think before letting little Timmy go trick or treating as "Chief Scalp'em"
     
  8. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    No, you claiming it's phony is not substantiating an argument, it's a bald assertion based on a tu quoque fallacy. The bad behavior of some in the use of the term does not invalidate it, that's basic "abusus non tollit usum"

    As if terms can change as easily as you claim without some people just being more susceptible to suggestion versus it actually being cultural memesis and linguistic shifts. Get the distinction straight: some people are overly facile followers that will go with any trend, that doesn't mean they represent the majority
     
  9. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    And that's not cultural adoption, it's acculturation, you keep trying to use the word in a manner that ignores the context used in the discipline versus the vernacular that clouds the whole discussion. I can participate in a Japanese shrine ritual like washing my hands and mouth before entering, that is not the same as donning a Shinto priest's robes and acting like it's remotely the same, because it's not
     
  10. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    Expecting perfection means you're always going to be disappointed, that's the problem in your absolutist thinking. Dunning Kruger syndrome is a legitimate cognitive bias, it's non partisan

    Yeah, there's totally a conspiracy against you and your white privileged self to victimize you instead of, I don't know, you not wanting to change the status quo because it hurts your feelings or makes you uncomfortable. Yet would you even apply that consistently in terms of a context where it matters (someone being constantly misgendered by family members, for instance)? I doubt it
     
  11. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    No, it's called a stereotype, which is still bad even if it's a positive one, like the notion that black people are more physically capable. It's damaging in the social interactions we have to generalize people based on associations to something like their race. Or do you disagree?
     
  12. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    Learning about a culture is fundamentally different from thinking you can just step into any culture and act like you belong there, that's the problem people have with white people in particular, or Americans in general, thinking, "Yeah, I can just dress up as an African tribesman, there's nothing racist there, I have black friends and they don't mind," as if that is any kind of valid excuse versus deflections and red herrings
     
  13. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    Empathy from modern evangelical Christians?

    Psh, as if they care about that versus just saving souls at any cost, even though I'm pretty sure the Bible advises discretion at various points, like Jesus' advice about shaking the dust from your feet or the epistles' note about faith without love, among other advice that is reasonable, even if the beliefs themselves are anything but.
     
  14. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    So you're admitting you misspoke before?

    Because I'm a pasty privileged white guy who doesn't know their way around the city: literally, I've probably only been in cities 10% of my life, lived in suburban or rural areas most of the time

    The problem fundamentally is what you consider privilege and whether it's overly reductionist or considers that me not being financially privileged does not mean I'm not privileged in other fashions
    If people are ignorant about that, that isn't an excuse to act like they're the victim, especially if they were inconvenienced for one day as the story seems to suggest.

    Yeah, nice try white knighting for white people, that's not how this works. A private campus has more leeway to begin with, same as a church that doesn't want to marry an interracial couple in this day and age. Sure, this one is state sponsored, it's certainly contentious, I'm not saying I absolutely support it, we'd need more information that what your article appears to give

    Slavery was a product OF racism, it didn't exist in a vacuum. And the 3/5 compromise was in a time when slavery was accepted, which by your own admission, is racist, so the 3/5 compromise cannot be said to not be racist by a basic association

    Yeah, and conveniently, it's just black families that seem to suffer the most on this, while white kids can get help and move on to success, while black families are left in the dust by welfare cuts. This isn't an either/or solution, policies that disproportionately affect black people are enabling systemic racism even if the intent is to try and "help" people regardless of race

    Supporting roles in entertainment at large, why is that so obtuse to you?
    Roles in terms of a job are totally different in terms of the regard, even if there can be an issue as to black people, especially in many areas, being relegated to service jobs because they can't even get a foot in the door for anything more impressive.

    Sure, my alma mater has a black vice chancellor, but pretty sure he's the FIRST, and the university only integrated about 55 years ago, just a bit before my county's schools finally integrated in spite of their own Confederate sympathies that thought it was fine the way it was. He likely had some amount of privilege, but that doesn't mean he had it easy by any means as a black man in America

    Black people being a minority does not mean they cannot be disproportionately affected by the white majority, that's ignoring the problems in societal biases with a cultural hegemony from white people historically as the absolute majority (how many black people do you think were here in 1776 versus today?)

    Seeing black people everyday is not a privilege everyone has, you seem to think black people's distribution and demographics is even, but I'm pretty sure it's not remotely.
     
  15. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    I consider privilege to be treatment beyond what the average person gets. Do you agree with this definition? If so, what privilege do white people have?
    It isn’t about ignorance, it’s about not wanting to participate in the event and being forced to against their will
    Those colleges do not have the leeway to discriminate against people based on skin color
    Again; the 3/5 compromise had nothing to do with black people getting the right to vote.
    Not all black people are on welfare ya know; and plenty of poor black people move up to middle class during their lifetime.
    Welfare does not disproportionately affect black people; there are far more white people on welfare than black people.
    Finally, The Truth About Welfare — How Many Blacks Vs. How Many Whites

    Okay so you’re talking about the entertainment industry. Fair enough; what percentage of black people currently have leading roles in the entertainment industry, and what percentage do you feel black people should have? (Please provide data to support your claim)
     
  16. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Whattt??? To adopt another culture is not cultural adoption? Umm… Yes it is; hence the term used!
    Do all Japanese involved in their culture don Shinto Priests robes? If not, why would you expect me to do so in order to adopt the culture? Is it possible for a Japanese person come to this country and adopt American culture in your view?
     
  17. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    It was not a positive stereotype that he spoke of.
     
  18. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    If an African American man moves to Brazil, marries a black Hispanic woman, do you think it is possible for him to adopt the Hispanic culture there?
     
  19. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    The problem is the "average person" is not defined in a vacuum societally and can reflect race in terms of biased treatment. White people are given more leeway in what they can get away with by law enforcement for one example, to say nothing of a wealth more representation in pretty much every aspect of society, so people of color otherwise are essentially left with little to follow as an example of their own race and only are able to think of themselves in terms of how "white" they can behave

    If they go to the college, they don't have some protection against being offended: or are you asking the college to just try and kowtow to everyone now? Because that wouldn't work

    Except this wasn't common treatment, so it doesn't count as anything beyond the kind of change that white people shouldn't act as if it's anything comparable to the treatment black people got for centuries

    Pretty sure I retracted that claim, the point is that it was racism
    Pretty sure I said neither of those things in terms of some absolute standard: the fact that white people can also be on welfare does not preclude biased treatment by society at large in terms of the same kinds of crimes

    Yet again, you take the stats at face value instead of considering that, with white people having higher numbers, a per capita analysis is more accurate versus just the flat numbers with no regard to context in how there is a proportional difference in the same vein as with black people suffering police brutality, a significance that I cannot claim expertise on. More white people suffering specific police violence doesn't mean that the number in terms of the black population isn't higher in itself versus as a whole (which is unfair given white majority representation)

    And the stats are not necessarily as accurate for problems of police brutality as for welfare, but I think the notion of what constitutes welfare can be applied too narrowly instead of considering that Social Security for disabled people would count as much as other services that could potentially be more exploited by otherwise able bodied individuals.


    You think there's been a study on all these things? Seems like you just think everyone has that kind of interest or that it's been published to that degree in the first place. I didn't claim there was a study and I certainly can't claim some specific percentage of what I feel black people should have, mostly because that's reducing it to a pure number and ignoring, ironically, black voices that you seem to think are irrelevant or claiming victimhood unjustly.
     
  20. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    Again, he can incorporate into the culture, adoption is not doable because it would generally be considered something you're raised in, not that you move into. If you can't even consider that the terminology might not agree with your usage, then we can't really continue the discussion at all.

    We shouldn't act like anyone can just step into another culture so casually, rather than it being something that is a lived experience, an important distinction I feel like you're glossing over, like culture is just this fad
     
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