Halal Explained

[smaneck]

LOL!!!!! Brilliant!!!!

It is rather like outlawing the shariah. You can't do that without outlawing most of the Ten Commandments!

 

[WoodrowX2]

It is rather like outlawing the shariah. You can't do that without outlawing most of the Ten Commandments!

By definition the 10 Commandments are Shariah as are the 613 Mitzvah

To outlaw Shariah would require outlawing the 10 Commandments and the 613 Mitzvah.

 

[smaneck]

By definition the 10 Commandments are Shariah as are the 613 Mitzvah

To outlaw Shariah would require outlawing the 10 Commandments and the 613 Mitzvah.

Hmmm, not all of them. Muslims do not observe the Sabbath for instance.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Hmmm, not all of them. Muslims do not observe the Sabbath for instance.

But as it is a "Religious Law" maybe not Islamic, but still religious law (Shariah)

We do have what is similar to Sabbath, The Friday Jummah that is a required observance for all Adult Muslim Males.

Trivia: Literal translation for Shariah is "Path to the watering hole"

 

[smaneck]

But as it is a "Religious Law" maybe not Islamic, but still religious law (Shariah)

Yeah, but it is not called that in Judaism.

We do have what is similar to Sabbath, The Friday Jummah that is a required observance for all Adult Muslim Males.

It is not forbidden to work on Friday, though. You are just expected to attend the congregational prayer.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Yeah, but it is not called that in Judaism.



It is not forbidden to work on Friday, though. You are just expected to attend the congregational prayer.

True

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

At first glance, slitting an animal's throat without previously stunning it seems excessively cruel - but after I've read through a couple of dozen pages arguing for both sides of the debate, I feel that I'm not qualified to judge whether such practices qualify as animal cruelty or not.

A slit throat *can* be a relatively painless and quick death, apparently, but in some cases, the animals remain alive and conscious for minutes on end because their arteries are blocked.
OTOH, similar incidents happen with "regular" slaughtering as well, so that cannot really be an argument.

So at the end of the day, I remain at an impasse: I won't eat kosher or halal meat (nor meat that's been "produced" under the terrible conditions of industrialized farming and slaughtering), but neither will I join in the chorus of animal rights activists who'd want to see such practices prohibited.

 

[smaneck]

So at the end of the day, I remain at an impasse: I won't eat kosher or halal meat (nor meat that's been "produced" under the terrible conditions of industrialized farming and slaughtering), but neither will I join in the chorus of animal rights activists who'd want to see such practices prohibited.

Yeah, I think we need to pay more attention to how we are taking care of these animals while they are alive rather than worrying so much about how we kill them. Simple Gifts is right about one thing, vegetarianism would be preferable. It takes ten pounds of grain to produce a single pound of meat.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Yeah, I think we need to pay more attention to how we are taking care of these animals while they are alive rather than worrying so much about how we kill them. Simple Gifts is right about one thing, vegetarianism would be preferable. It takes ten pounds of grain to produce a single pound of meat.

Industrialization has blessed and cursed us with an overabundance of food, and meat consumption has been a status symbol for so long that most cultures still cannot cope with the sheer supply available to us.
My grandparents used to eat meat once or twice a week - simply because they could not afford to eat more, and because they had to husband their resources (a flock of chickens, a pig, some rabbits). And they lived at a time when industrialization had already more than doubled the overall per caput meat consumption, compared to agrarian times.

You can observe the same thing happening in places like China right now: eating as much meat as possible is associated with high social status and wealth, so people stuff themselves - and both obesity rates and attendant diseases such as gout and diabetes are skyrocketing.

Only last fall, the Green party pretty much lost the German federal elections because their programme included an initiative that would have encouraged and supported workplace cafeterias to offer one meat-free day per week (by providing vegetarian cooking courses for the chefs, etc.). The conservative parties portrayed it as an attack on individual liberty and a form of "green fascism", and the gullible populace gobbled it up as if there was no tomorrow.


Last but not least, we should keep in mind that most of the meat produced by industrialized cattle farms goes straight to the landfill or the incinerator, because not everything's being sold and even the stuff that has been bought ends up in the trash can. Western society's been practically GROOMED to waste resources as much as possible, because that means more consumption of goods.

 

[smaneck]

Industrialization has blessed and cursed us with an overabundance of food

Unfortunately most of the world does not have an overabundance of food. In the US we were relieved that the recent recession and the extra money that was pumped into the economy by the Fed buying bonds did not create runaway inflation, but there was inflation in two major commodities, fuel and food. That didn't have much of an affect on most Americans because we spend less than 7% of our income on food, and that includes eating out! Much of the world, however, spends more like 50% of their income on food, and this inflation had devastating consequences. We sometimes forget that the Arab Spring really began as bread riots.

 

[dlamberth]

We sometimes forget that the Arab Spring really began as bread riots.

I don't believe it's an issue of forgetting, I don't think many are even aware of the ski high wheat prices caused by the wheat shortages in the middle-east and how that helped to mobilize people.

.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Yeah, I think we need to pay more attention to how we are taking care of these animals while they are alive rather than worrying so much about how we kill them. Simple Gifts is right about one thing, vegetarianism would be preferable. It takes ten pounds of grain to produce a single pound of meat.

Now if both Muslims and Jews would treat animals the way we are commanded to, life would be better for all of us.

Animals that are raised for food are supposed to receive the best treatment in all things and treated with the utmost of kindness.

The slaughter is also supposed to take place away from the sight of other animals and done as rapidly as possible. Overall in order to follow all the requirements one would have to raise and slaughter their own food.

If this were actually done I can guarantee meat consumption would drop dramatically. I think it would bring us back to eating meat only on special occasions and not be a daily thing.

 

[smaneck]

If this were actually done I can guarantee meat consumption would drop dramatically. I think it would bring us back to eating meat only on special occasions and not be a daily thing.

I was in India during the Eid al-Adha which commemorates the sacrifice of Abraham. Muslims there would buy a goat a few days before the festival and keep it as a pet, becoming deliberately attached to it so they would feel the sacrifice.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I was in India during the Eid al-Adha which commemorates the sacrifice of Abraham. Muslims there would buy a goat a few days before the festival and keep it as a pet, becoming deliberately attached to it so they would feel the sacrifice.

That would be in accordance with how we are supposed to feel about the animals we slaughter. there should be compassion for the animal and we should feel a loss when it comes time to slaughter it.

 

[Supreme]

I've eaten at halal places and eaten halal food before (living in London, they're a bit hard to avoid). The only problem I would have would be labelling. If meat is halal but isn't labelled as such, it annoys me. Pork is my favourite meat, and I wouldn't like to buy 'pepperoni' if it was from a different animal.

 

[smaneck]

I've eaten at halal places and eaten halal food before (living in London, they're a bit hard to avoid). The only problem I would have would be labelling. If meat is halal but isn't labelled as such, it annoys me. Pork is my favourite meat, and I wouldn't like to buy 'pepperoni' if it was from a different animal.

Well, you could read the ingredients.

I would think that any pepperoni made from beef would be labeled as such because it is lower in fat and thus more attractive to the consumer. At least it would be in this country.

In New Zealand some meat isn't certified as halal, although nearly all are butchered the same way, because the meat that isn't being sold to Muslims and certified as halal might well be kept in close proximity to pork. You can't do that with halal meat.

 

[Supreme]

Well, you could read the ingredients.

I would think that any pepperoni made from beef would be labeled as such because it is lower in fat and thus more attractive to the consumer. At least it would be in this country.

In New Zealand some meat isn't certified as halal, although nearly all are butchered the same way, because the meat that isn't being sold to Muslims and certified as halal might well be kept in close proximity to pork. You can't do that with halal meat.

Ain't nobody got time for that!

In seriousness though, if I'm buying a product from a company I've never tried before, and the ingredients includes pepperoni or ham or bacon, I will always check its pork ingredients as opposed to other meats. I love chicken and beef as well (can't abide lamb), but I like my pork products to actually, y'know, contain pork. None of this imposter rubbish.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I've eaten at halal places and eaten halal food before (living in London, they're a bit hard to avoid). The only problem I would have would be labelling. If meat is halal but isn't labelled as such, it annoys me. Pork is my favourite meat, and I wouldn't like to buy 'pepperoni' if it was from a different animal.

I can empathize with that and that would be a concern because you are getting a different product in what you expect to be a pork product. Here in the USA it would be easier to identify as pork currently is the lowest priced meat, nearly 1/4 the price of Beef in some areas up here in North Dakota.

I agree if a meat product is halal it should be labelled as such to avoid confusion as to what meat is used. Halal bacon, Pepperoni, sausage, etc will be made with, beef, turkey, chicken, lamb etc. Some form of identification should be made to show it is not a pork product.

In anything else the halal is halal by default no matter who produced it. The labeling is not needed as the ingredients should be sufficient to let a Muslim know if it is prohibited. If a can says canned peaches with no added ingrediants, it is halal. It can't be made non-Halal except by adding a Haram product to it.

Our concern with non-Meat products are any additives added. Canned peaches will always be Halal by default the only thing that could change that would be additives such as coloring or flavorings. In those products the Halal label is usually a marketing gimmick used by to seller to attract Muslim or Jewish customers.

In the States Vegetarian labeling is used to attract both vegetarians and Muslim as all vegetarian products are automatically halal the halal label is not needed.

 

[smaneck]

I love chicken and beef as well (can't abide lamb),

That is because you Brits don't know how to prepare it properly. Lamb needs rosemary and garlic!

You know why the British acquired an Empire? So someone else could do their cooking for them.

 

[smaneck]

I can empathize with that and that would be a concern because you are getting a different product in what you expect to be a pork product. Here in the USA it would be easier to identify as pork currently is the lowest priced meat, nearly 1/4 the price of Beef in some areas up here in North Dakota.

But not as cheap as turkey which is what we process to masquerade as pork.