Hal Lindsey Report

[Notrash]

You can judge me by Hal's standard all day long.

Do you also wish to share his responsibility for ruined lives and false propet judgement? Teenagers who wouldnt' marry or go to college because he taught the rapture coming..... or other teenagers and people of all ages who did marry to enjoy the normal Joys of Love and family, but did so prematurely and with perhaps the wrong partner.? Others who put off buying a house or even worse, perhaps suicides and psychological damage from falsely attributing 1988 as the date of the Rapture.? And not only falsly attributing the date of the Rapture, but even making false application of "this generation" to a restoration of Israel, when Christ clearly told his disciples "YOU", speaking to them. You planning to share those judgements of a false teacher and false prophet also? Perhaps many of the Lahaye, Lindsay crowd should be searching out the remainder of the millstones that will be better for them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You can judge me by Hal's standard all day long.

The Mormons feel the same way about Joseph Smith LOL.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5239077&page=2

JOHN 5:45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses You-- Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his Writings, how will you believe My Words?"

Reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the land and the Heaven fled away. And there was found no Place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and Books were Opened. And another Book was opened, which is of the Life.

 

[Oye11]

I appreciate the Dispensationalist believers on the thread that take a stand against date setting and the sort. That along with the prophecies of Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Kim Clement, etc. invariably include wide misses and bring discredit to the faith. But it is nothing new. This stuff has been going on throughout the centuries....

 

[Notrash]

Failed prophecies:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]About 30 CE: The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), when interpreted literally, appear to record many predictions by Jeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. For example, Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." In Matthew 24:34, Yeshua is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus appears to have predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen. More details.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]About 60 CE: Interpreting the Epistles of Paul of Tarsus literally, his writings seem to imply that Jesus would return and usher in a rapture during the lifetime of persons who were living in the middle of the 1st century. More details.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]About 90 CE: Saint Clement 1 predicted that the world end would occur at any moment.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]2nd Century CE: Prophets and Prophetesses of the Montanist movement predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetime and establish the New Jerusalem in the city of Pepuza in Asia Minor.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]365 CE: A man by the name of Hilary of Poitiers, announced that the end would happen that year. It didn't.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]375 to 400 CE: Saint Martin of Tours, a student of Hilary, was convinced that the end would happen sometime before 400 CE.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]500 CE: This was the first year-with-a-nice-round-number-panic. The antipope Hippolytus and an earlier Christian academic Sextus Julius Africanus had predicted Armageddon at about this year.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]968 CE: An eclipse was interpreted as a prelude to the end of the world by the army of the German emperor Otto III.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]992: Good Friday coincided with the Feast of the Annunciation; this had long been believed to be the event that would bring forth the Antichrist, and thus the end-times events foretold in the book of Revelation. Records from Germany report that a new sun rose in the north and that as many as 3 suns and 3 moons were fighting.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1000-JAN-1: Many Christians in Europe had predicted the end of the world on this date. As the date approached, Christian armies waged war against some of the Pagan countries in Northern Europe. The motivation was to convert them all to Christianity, by force if necessary, before Christ returned in the year 1000. Meanwhile, some Christians had given their possessions to the Church in anticipation of the end. Fortunately, the level of education was so low that many citizens were unaware of the year. They did not know enough to be afraid. Otherwise, the panic might have been far worse than it was. Unfortunately, when Jesus did not appear, the church did not return the gifts. Serious criticism of the Church followed. The Church reacted by exterminating some heretics.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1000-MAY: The body of Charlemagne was disinterred on Pentecost. A legend had arisen that an emperor would rise from his sleep to fight the Antichrist.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1005-1006: A terrible famine throughout Europe was seen as a sign of the closeness of the end.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1033: Some believed this to be the 1000th anniversary of the death and resurrection of Jesus. His second coming was anticipated. Jesus' actual date of execution is unknown, but is believed to be in the range of 27 to 33 CE.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1147: Gerard of Poehlde decided that the millennium had actually started in 306 CE during Constantine's reign. Thus, the world end would happen in 1306 CE.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1179: John of Toledo predicted the end of the world during 1186. This estimate was based on the alignment of many planets.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1205: Joachim of Fiore predicted in 1190 that the Antichrist was already in the world, and that King Richard of England would defeat him. The Millennium would then begin, sometime before 1205.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1284: Pope Innocent III computed this date by adding 666 years onto the date the Islam was founded.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1346 and later: The black plague spread across Europe, killing one third of the population. This was seen as the prelude to an immediate end of the world. Unfortunately, the Christians had previously killed a many of the cats, fearing that they might be familiars of Witches. The fewer the cats, the more the rats. It was the rat fleas that spread the black plague.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1496: This was approximately 1500 years after the birth of Jesus. Some mystics in the 15th century predicted that the millennium would begin during this year.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1524: Manyastrologers predicted the imminent end of the world due to a world wide flood. They obviously had not read the Genesis story of the rainbow.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1533: Melchior Hoffman predicted that Jesus' return would happen in 1533 and that the New Jerusalem would be established in Strasbourg, Germany. He was arrested and died in a Strasbourg jail.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1669: The Old Believers in Russia believed that the end of the world would occur in this year. 20 thousand burned themselves to death from 1669 to 1690 to protect themselves from the Antichrist.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1689: Benjamin Keach, a 17th century Baptist, predicted the end of the world for this year.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1736: British theologian and mathematician William Whitson predicted a great flood similar to Noah's for OCT-13 of this year.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1792: This was the date of the end of the world calculated by some believers in the Shaker movement.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1794: Charles Wesley, one of the founders of Methodism, thought Doomsday would be in this year.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1830: Margaret McDonald, a Christian prophetess, predicted that Robert Owen would be the Antichrist. Owen helped found New Harmony, IN.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1832?: Joseph Smith (1805-1844) was the founder of the Church of Christ, which became the Restorationist movement after many schisms. It now includes The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- a.k.a. the Mormons, and about a hundred other denominations and sects. He heard a voice while praying. He wrote, in Doctrines and Covenants section 130:[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

14: "I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:"​

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[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]15: "Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter."[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]16: "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face."[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]17: "I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time." 14[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The year in which this event occurred is not recorded. However, one commentator suggested 1832 or earlier. 16 Smith is later recorded as having said:

"I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written--the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old." 17​

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[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Smith would have reached the age of 85 during 1890. Unfortunately, by that year, Smith had been dead for almost a half century, having been assassinated by a mob. Note that his prophecy is ambiguous. It can be interpreted that:[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus would return during 1890 (which did not materialize) or that[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1890 would pass without Jesus' return (which did come to pass). [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Some anti-Mormon sources quote only verses 14 and 15, and draw the former conclusion -- that Smith's prophecy failed.[/FONT]

​

 

[Notrash]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1843-MAR-21: William Miller, founder of the Millerite movement, predicted that Jesus would come on this date. A massive number of Christians accepted his prophecy.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1844-OCT-22: When Jesus did not return, Miller predicted this new date.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1850: Ellen White, founder of the Seven Day Adventists movement, made many predictions of the timing of the end of the world. All failed. She made one on 1850-JUN-27 that only a few months remained before the end. She wrote: "My accompanying angel said, 'Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready.' [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1856 or later: At Ellen White's last prediction, she said that she was shown in a vision the fate of believers who attended the 1856 SDA conference. She wrote "I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." 11 That is, some of the attendees would die of normal diseases; some would die from plagues at the last days, others would still be alive when Jesus came. "By the early 1900s all those who attended the conference had passed away, leaving the Church with the dilemma of trying to figure out how to explain away such a prominent prophetic failure." 12[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1991: Mother Shipton, a 16th century mystic predicted the end of the world: "...The world to an end shall come; in eighteen hundred and eighty-one."[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1891 or before: On 1835-FEB-14, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, attended a meeting of church leaders. He said that the meeting had been called because God had commanded it. He announced that Jesus would return within 56 years -- i.e. before 1891-FEB-15. (History of the Church 2:182)[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1914 was one of the more important estimates of the start of the war of Armageddon by the Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society). They computed 1914 from prophecy in the book of Daniel, Chapter 4. The writings referred to "seven times". The WTS interpreted each "time" as equal to 360 days, giving a total of 2520 days. This was further interpreted as representing 2520 years, measured from the starting date of 607 BCE. This gave 1914 as the target date. When 1914 passed, they changed their prediction; 1914 became the year that Jesus invisibly began his rule. [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975 and 1994, etc. were other dates that the Watchtower Society (WTS) or its members predicted. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Since late in the 19th century, they had taught that the "battle of the Great Day of God Almighty" (Armageddon) would happen in 1914 CE. It didn't. [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The next major estimate was 1925. Watchtower magazine predicted: "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914; but it would be presumptuous on the part of any faithful follower of the Lord to assume just what the Lord is going to do during that year." 6[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The Watchtower Society selected 1975 as its next main prediction. This was based on the estimate "according to reliable Bible chronology Adam was created in the year 4026 BCE, likely in the autumn of the year, at the end of the sixth day of creation." 8 They believed that the year 1975 a promising date for the end of the world, as it was the 6,000th anniversary of Adam's creation. Exactly 1,000 years was to pass for each day of the creation week. This prophecy also failed. [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The current estimate is that the end of the world as we know it will happen precisely 6000 years after the creation of Eve. 9 There is no way of knowing when this happened.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]More details on the WTS predictions.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1919: Meteorologist Albert Porta predicted that the conjunction of 6 planets would generate a magnetic current that would cause the sun to explode and engulf the earth on DEC-17.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1936: Herbert W Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, predicted that the Day of the Lord would happen sometime in 1936. When the prediction failed, he made a new estimate: 1975.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1940 or 1941: A Bible teacher from Australia, Leonard Sale-Harrison, held a series of prophesy conferences across North America in the 1930's. He predicted that the end of the world would happen in 1940 or 1941. 7[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1948: During this year, the state of Israel was founded. Some Christians believed that this event was the final prerequisite for the second coming of Jesus. Various end of the world predictions were made in the range 1888 to 2048.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1953-AUG: David Davidson wrote a book titled "The Great Pyramid, Its Divine Message". In it, he predicted that the world would end in 1953-AUG.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1957-APR: The Watchtower magazine quoted 6 a pastor from California, Mihran Ask, as saying in 1957-JAN that "Sometime between April 16 and 23, 1957, Armageddon will sweep the world! Millions of persons will perish in its flames and the land will be scorched.' [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1959: The Branch Davidians of Waco TX believed that they would be killed, resurrected and transferred to heaven by APR-22.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1960: Piazzi Smyth, a past astronomer royal of Scotland, wrote a book circa 1860 titled "Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid." It was responsible for spreading the belief in pyramidology throughout the world. This is the belief that secrets are hidden in the dimensions of the great pyramids. He concluded from his research that the millennium would start before the end of 1960 CE.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1967: During the six day war, the Israeli army captured all of Jerusalem. Many conservative Christians believed that the rapture would occur quickly. [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1970's: The late Moses David (formerly David Berg) was the founder of the Christian religious group, The Children of God. He predicted that a comet would hit the earth, probably in the mid 1970's and destroy all life in the United States. One source indicated that he believed it would happen in 1973.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1972: According to an article in the Atlantic magazine, "Herbert W. Armstrong's empire suffered a serious blow when the end failed to begin in January of 1972, as Armstrong had predicted, thus bringing hardship to many people who had given most of their assets to the church in the expectation of going to Petra, where such worldly possessions would be useless." 3 According to an article in Wikipedia: [/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
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[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1974: Charles Meade, a pastor in Daleville, IN, predicted that the end of the world will happen during his lifetime. He was born circa 1927, so the end will probably come early in the 21st century.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1975: A major Jehovah's Witness prediction date.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1978: Chuck Smith, Pastor of Calvary Chapel in Cost Mesa, CA, predicted the rapture in 1981.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1980: Leland Jensen leader of a Baha'i World Faith group, predicted that a nuclear disaster would happen in 1980. This would be followed by two decades of conflict, ending in the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1981: [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught an anti-Trinitarian belief about God, and Christian Identity. Back in the 1970's, he predicted that the Antichrist would appear before 1981.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Rev. Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church predicted that the Kingdom of Heaven would be established in this year.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1982: Pat Robertson predicted a few years in advance that the world would end in the fall of 1982.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1982: Astronomers John Gribben & Setphen Plagemann predicted the "Jupiter Effect" in 1974. They wrote that when various planets were aligned on the same side of the sun, tidal forces would create solar flares, radio interruptions, rainfall and temperature disturbances and massive earthquakes. The planets did align as seen from earth, as they do regularly. Nothing unusual happened.[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1984 to 1999: In 1983, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, later called Osho, teacher of what has been called the Rajneesh movement, is said to have predicted massive destruction on earth, including natural disasters and man-made catastrophes. Floods larger than any since Noah, extreme earthquakes, very destructive volcano eruptions, nuclear wars etc. will be experienced. Tokyo, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Bombay will all disappear. Actually, the predictions were read by his secretary; their legitimacy is doubtful.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1985: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel predicted that the war of Aramageddon will start on 1985-JUN 8-9 in "a valley of the Alaskan peninsula." [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1986: Moses David of The Children of God faith group predicted that the Battle of Armageddon would take place in 1986. Russia would defeat Israel and the United States. A worldwide Communist dictatorship would be established. In 1993, Christ would return to earth.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1987 to 2000: Lester Sumrall, in his 1987 book "I Predict 2000 AD" predicted that Jerusalem would be the richest city on Earth, that the Common Market would rule Europe, and that there would be a nuclear war involving Russia and perhaps the U.S. Also, he prophesized that the greatest Christian revival in the history of the church would happen: all during the last 13 years of the 20th century. All of the predictions failed.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1988: [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Hal Lindsey had predicted in his book "The Late, Great Planet Earth" that the Rapture was coming in 1988 - one generation or 40 years after the creation of the state of Israel. This failed prophecy did not appear to damage his reputation. He continues to write books of prophecy which sell very well indeed.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Alfred Schmielewsky, a psychic whose stage name was "super-psychic A.S. Narayana," predicted in 1986 that the world's greatest natural disaster would hit Montreal in 1988. Sadly, his psychic abilities failed him on 1999-APR-11 when he answered the door of his home only to be shot dead by a gunman.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1988-MAY: A 1981 movie titled "The man who saw tomorrow" described some of Nostradamus predictions. Massive earthquakes were predicted for San Francisco and Los Angeles.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1988-OCT-11: Edgar Whisenaut, a NASA scientist, had published the book "88 Reasons why the Rapture will Occur in 1988." It sold over 4 million copies.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]About 1990: Peter Ruckman concluded from his analysis of the Bible that the rapture would come within a few years of 1990.[/FONT]​

 

[Oye11]

Some of those dates are wrong. For example The Branch Davidians were much later than 1959.... That Rajneesh was quite a character. It was a Hindu influenced cult that taught abundant sexual experience put one in the presence of the divine. He spent his followers money on a fleet of Rolls Royces and died of AIDs. Can`t hardly lump Dispensationists with guys like him or David Karesh, but one thing is certain, the Hal Lindseys get a lot of attention. Guy has made a lot of money as well I`m sure. And Jack Van Impe, well I don`t know what to tell someone that can`t see that that guy and his wife are putting on a show. Often the world has more discernment than Christians...

 

[Easystreet]

The Mormons feel the same way about Joseph Smith LOL.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5239077&page=2

JOHN 5:45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses You-- Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his Writings, how will you believe My Words?"

Reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the land and the Heaven fled away. And there was found no Place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and Books were Opened. And another Book was opened, which is of the Life.

Good Morning, What is your point in quoting the two verses? I don't see a legitimate connection to the purpose of any discussion concerning Hal Lindsey, and his Prophetic teaching.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Gordon, I apologize it took me so long to get back to you.

Here are some of the issues I mentioned earlier:

Jesus said that this would indicate that He was 'at the door,' ready to return. Then He said, 'Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place' (Matthew 24:34 NASB). What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs-chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so.

The Late Great Planet Earth (London, Lakeland, 1970); p. 54.​

'The decade of the 1980's could very well be the last decade as we know It.'

The 1980's: Countdown to Armageddon (New York, Bantam, 1982), back page.​

'We are the generation that will see the end times ...and the return of Jesus.'

The 1980's: Countdown to Armageddon (New York, Bantam, 1982), back cover.​

​

Now, while you may argue that he didn't date set, as he qualififed his statements instead of making them dogmatic, he is still date setting, leading people to believe that such and such would most probably occur within a certain time frame. This still is date setting.

After the 1980's passed, we see Lindsey prevaricating on the issue of how long a "generation" is and tries to backpeddle out of the strength of his previous comments above:

Jesus promised us that the generation that witnessed the restoration of the Jewish people to their homeland would not pass until 'all these things' - including his return to Earth - would be done. The Jewish people declared the rebirth of their nation in 1948. They recaptured Jerusalem in 1967. A biblical generation is somewhere between 40 to 100 years, depending on whether you take the example from Abraham's day or from the discipline of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai. In either case, you do the arithmetic, folks. No matter how you cut it, there's not much time left

Planet Earth-2000 A.D. (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1994) p. 3​

I also said that 'if' a generation was 40 years and 'if' the generation of the 'fig tree' (Matthew 24:32-34) started with the foundation of the State of Israel, then Jesus 'might come back by 1988.' But I put a lot of ifs and maybes in because I knew that no one could be absolutely certain.

Planet Earth-2000 A.D. (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1994) p. 6​

Many biblical scholars have pointed out the fact that a generation in the Bible is generally regarded as 40 years. Some people point out that 40 years has already passed since the rebirth of Israel and Jesus has not returned. Well folks, we simply don't know for certain how long a biblical generation is. In addition, we're not certain when that final countdown began. Did it begin in 1948 when Israel was reborn? Or could it have begun in 1967 when Jerusalem, the apple of God's eye, was recaptured and reunified under Jewish control? We simply don't know and that is the way God wants it.

Planet Earth-2000 A.D. (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1994) p. 144​

​

Yet, after ALL THAT ABOVE, after all that backpeddling and claiming that no one can know and that's the way God wants it, he still maintains we are in the end days - and he does so in the very same book!:

It is clear that the Bible can't be talking about any other time in history but today. No man knows the day or hour this dramatic climax is going to occur. But there can be little doubt that this is the generation. It could start tomorrow

Planet Earth-2000 A.D. (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1994) p. 151.​

​

Notice, on one had he says that we can't know when the countdown starts, and God wants it that way, but then in the same book he says it is CLEAR that it can't be any other time but TODAY, and that the climax could start tommorow!

And he continues to attempt some form of date setting and contradict himself! Not content with leaving the start of "this generation" to be a mystery and left to God alone to know, as he himself sakd God wanted it to be that way, he cannot stop setting dates:

My recent study of Daniel 9:24-27 has convinced me that the capture of Jerusalem in 1967 may be a more prophetically significant event than the rebirth of the nation. Think of it. In June of that year, the Jews recaptured Jerusalem and re-established a lasting sovereignty over it for the first time since the Babylonian destruction in the 6th Century B.C

Planet Earth-2000 A.D. (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1994) p. 144​

​

​

Notice the book and page number . . .

A year later:

But note carefully, Jesus said the generation would not "pass away until all was fulfilled." In other words, many who saw the signs begin to come together would not die before their climactic fulfillment. Life expectancy today in the U.S. is about 76 years

The Final Battle (Palos Verdes, California, Western Front, 1995) p. 263.​

​

Then he tries this:

...the prophetic time-clock stalled in 1948, and did not resume again until the pivotal events on June 6, 1967, when for the first time in 2500 years, Jews once again had sovereign control of Jerusalem and have maintained it.

Planet Earth, The Final Chapter (Beverly Hills, Western Front, 1998), p. 76.​

​

Now we have a clear uniquivocable claim of a clear uniquivocable date. Yet, according to Hal in 1994, no one could know such a date and God wanted it that way.

This is just one of the many, many problems with blatant contradictions, back peddling, attempts to obfuscate to make it appear he not doing something he is doing.


Gordon, I have a really big problem with this, even more so because I used to believe him.


.

 

[Easystreet]

I can understand some of your concern.

While we as believers try as best we can to analyze and no one is perfect. One thing we can understand for sure is that we don't know when He is coming back.

We do have some convincing signs.

I was born in 1947 so the so-called 40-year generation that many claimed is gone. Now, other factors come into play. Europe is poised to become the dominant power in the world. If all the nations switch to the Euro, the US becomes subservient to them. I believe this may very well happen in my lifetime. Russia is beginning to close her doors and is openly support Arab nations. All of the Islamic nations are anti Israel. China is capable of having a two million-man army. When the prophecies that deal with this information was written no one would have believed, but as these things unfold in our lives, even if we don't know the specifics, they are straddling to say the least.

The US is in deep trouble spiritually and this of course will lead to our financial collapse in due time, under our form of government.

I do believe there is generation that will exist either now or later that will fulfill the "this generation".

If I were you I would not be so quick to be against Hal Lindsey's theology. Instead of getting down on him look at the big picture. It really is coming together.

It is not a race issue or a hate issue or anything like that; it is a spiritual battle between Satan and God.

We know that Satan will lose in the end.

One of the Bible prophesies that fascinate me is the second coming following the end of the tribulation. Jesus will descend and the Mount of Olives will split. Zechariah 14:4

all verses are not that clear to me but most are. One that bugged me for years was I was in the A-millennial camp we Romans 11 26. and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27. "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

Whatever number of gentiles, I am in that group, are going to be saved we are told that when that number is reached that all of Israel will be saved.

For me this is during the tribulation while the body of Christ is with Christ in heaven. During the tribulation many gentiles form all over the world will come to Christ. Many Jews will to and the exact number is 144k. All unsaved people Jew and Gentile will be raptured to hell at the second coming, and all saved Jews and Gentiles will enter the 1000 year kingdom with Christ and the Church, as well as all dead saints from all ages.

What a glorious day that will be. It is exciting to know I have a savior that loves me and is going to protect me and that I will rull and reigh with Him at that time.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Gordon, "this generation" referred to those living at the time of Jesus .. . .

I know you strongly believe what you believe.

I simply found there were too many inconsistancies to contiue to believe as you do.


.

 

[holdon]

Gordon, "this generation" referred to those living at the time of Jesus .. . .

I know you strongly believe what you believe.

I simply found there were too many inconsistancies to contiue to believe as you do.


.

This "generation" means this "kind". See Philipians 2:15. Yes, they were there in Jesus days and still today.

 

[Easystreet]

Gordon, "this generation" referred to those living at the time of Jesus .. . .

I know you strongly believe what you believe.

I simply found there were too many inconsistancies to contiue to believe as you do.


.

Lets look at the verses under consideration carefully. [I will comment in dark black in brackets.]

15. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
[This is the setting. We know that there have been similar events but this one is different]

16. then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17. "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18. "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20. "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21. "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will
.[A-millennial believers, I was one at one time, believe the 70 AD event pertains to this, but that is impossible, because Hitler for one slaughtered more Jews than were killed at that time. Also, the following events did not take place which are curtail to this great tribulation.]
22. "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
23. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There {He is,}' do not believe {him.}
24. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
[Please notice this carefully. At the time of this "great tribulation" these Jews are told not to look for Christ here or there. This should resonate in your thinking. Think about it, in 70 AD they hated Christ and the Jews that died were not looking for Christ. The Jews that died under Hitler, were not looking for Christ. During and at this time these are saved Jews looking for Christ.]
25. "Behold, I have told you in advance.
26. "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, {or,} 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe {them.}
27. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28. "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [ the tribulation spoken of by Daniel "those days". At the end of those days Christ returns verse 30.]
30. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31. "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
[At this great tribulation as it comes to a close Christ comes back. Christ did not come back in 70 AD and He did not come back at the end of WW2.]
32. "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
33. so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, {right} at the door.
34. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
35. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. ["this generation is the generation of the great tribulation, it may be our generation or the next, but it was not any generation of the past.]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This "generation" means this "kind". See Philipians 2:15. Yes, they were there in Jesus days and still today.

EH!?!?!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

geneaV <1074> Used 13 times in 12 verses

Matthew 12:41 `Men of Nineveh shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judgment with this generation/geneaV <1074>, and shall condemn it, for they reformed at the proclamation of Jonah, and lo, a greater than Jonah here!

Philip 2:15 that ye may be becoming blameless and harmless offsprings of God, unblemished midst of generation/geneaV <1074> crooked, and having been perverted, in which ye are appearing as luminaries in world,

Luke 1:50 And His kindness [is] into generations/geneaV <1074> generations/genewn <1074>, To those fearing Him,

NT) Luke 1:50 kai <2532> to <3588> {AND} eleoV <1656> autou <846> {HIS MERCY [IS]} eiV <1519> {TO} geneaV <1074> {GENERATIONS} genewn <1074> {OF GENERATIONS} toiV <3588> {TO THOSE} foboumenoiV <5399> (5740) {FEARING} auton <846> {HIM.}

Acts 2:40 Also with many more other words he was testifying and exhorting, saying, `Be saved from the generation/geneaV <1074> the pervese, the-this;'

Acts 2:40 eteroiV <2087> {AND WITH} te <5037> {OTHER} logoiV <3056> {WORDS} pleiosin <4119> {MANY} diemartureto <1263> (5711) {HE EARNESTLY TESTIFIED} kai <2532> {AND} parekalei <3870> (5707) {EXHORTED,} legwn <3004> (5723) {SAYING,} swqhte <4982> (5682) {BE SAVED} apo <575> {FROM} thV <3588> {THE} geneaV <1074> {GENERATION} thV <3588> {THE} skoliaV <4646> {CROOKED} tauthV <3778> {THE THIS}

 

[thereselittleflower]

This "generation" means this "kind". See Philipians 2:15. Yes, they were there in Jesus days and still today.

No holdon, it doesn't mean "this kind".

Generations in Matthew 24:34

Lexicon Results for genea (Strong's G1074) Greek for G1074 &#947;&#949;&#957;&#949;&#8049; Transliteration
genea
Pronunciation
ge-ne-ä' (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
from (a presumed derivative of) G1085
TDNT Reference
1:662,114
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation​

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years​

According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, definition 3 is the one used here.

Jesus says "THIS" generation . .

The same thing is said in Mark 13:30

Jamison, Fasscet and Brown's Commentary says this:

30. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass fill all these things be done--or "fulfilled" ( Mat 24:34 Luk 21:32 ). Whether we take this to mean that the whole would be fulfilled within the limits of the generation then current, or, according to a usual way of speaking, that the generation then existing would not pass away without seeing a begun fulfilment of this prediction, the facts entirely correspond. For either the whole was fulfilled in the destruction accomplished by Titus, as many think; or, if we stretch it out, according to others, till the thorough dispersion of the Jews a little later, under Adrian, every requirement of our Lord's words seems to be met.

Jamieson, Robert; A.R. Fausset; and David Brown. "The Gospel According to Mark." Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible. Blue Letter Bible. 19 Feb 2000. 4 Sep 2007.
<http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/jfb/Mar/Mar013.html>.
​

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074> , the-this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven, and the dead-ones in Christ shall be ressurecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) first/prwton <4412> ,

Matt 12:42 `A queen of the south shall be being aroused/egerqhsetai <1453> (5701) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, the-this, and shall be condemning it/her. That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and lo, more of Solomon here!

Matthew 17:23 And they shall be killing Him. And to the third day He shall be being aroused/egerqhsetai <1453> (5701),' and they were exceeding sorrowful.

 

[Notrash]

Lets look at the verses under consideration carefully. [I will comment in dark black in brackets.]

15. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
[This is the setting. We know that there have been similar events but this one is different]

16. then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17. "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18. "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20. "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21. "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will
.[A-millennial believers, I was one at one time, believe the 70 AD event pertains to this, but that is impossible, because Hitler for one slaughtered more Jews than were killed at that time. Also, the following events did not take place which are curtail to this great tribulation.]

Aside from the debate of the number of Jews who lost their lives being 600,000 (as reported by zionist leader and war trumpeter Sam Untermyer in his speech to the nation) or 6 million as is the passed around figure, it is no doubt that many, many Jews and non jews alike perished in that war.
In addition, the % of jews and the desolations of the cities and the destruction of holy writings and artifacts would go along with grading a tribulation, not only the number of reported dead.

22. "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Unless he had left us a seed, we would have been as Sodom and Ghomorra.

23. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There {He is,}' do not believe {him.}
24. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
[Please notice this carefully. At the time of this "great tribulation" these Jews are told not to look for Christ here or there. This should resonate in your thinking. Think about it, in 70 AD they hated Christ and the Jews that died were not looking for Christ. The Jews that died under Hitler, were not looking for Christ. During and at this time these are saved Jews looking for Christ.]

I think your uniformed from the history of the Jewish Revolt. During the time of Jesus, many were still looking for a Messiah. They had rejected the true Christ, but They were looking for Him BECAUSE of Daniels prophecy, but only some of them had correct dates. The wise men from the east had correct dates. The Jewish leaders however were interpreting Daniels prophecy to be fulfilled in a Political earthly leadership, thus they were blinded. Remember the phrases, "can anything good come out of Nazareth? They were doubting if he were the Messiah. Even Herod knew of the Messiahas supposed coming and attempted to kill Him for fear of his throne. I would not doubt at all that there where several war leaders proclaiming messiahship during and before the 3 1/2 year revolt and seige of Jerusalem. In fact there were 3 distinct groups of Jews within Jerusalem (which was filled to overflowing at the time of the seige, due I think to passover or one of the festivals)
Two of these groups warred against the other groups inside the city. The one group then burned the corn and barley storage which created the famine.

The stories of people coming out of the city to surrender and then gorging themselves on food and then drinking, causing their guts to slit open arent' very pretty.

Even until the next Jewish revolt which successfully re-established Jerusalem as the capital for 2 1/2 years of the "redemption of Israel, the Jews were STILL looking for a Messiah due to Daniels prophecy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba's_revolt
132 AD. The Jewish sage Rabbi Akiva (alternatively Akiba) convinced the Sanhedrin to support the impending revolt, and regarded the chosen commander Simon Bar Kokhba to be the Jewish Messiah, according to the verse from Numbers 24:17: "There shall come a star out of Jacob" ("Bar Kokhba" means "son of a star" in the Aramaic language).

The outbreak took the Romans by surprise. Hadrian called his general Sextus Julius Severus from Britain, and troops were brought from as far as the Danube. The size of the Roman army amassed against the rebels was much larger than that commanded by Titus sixty years earlier. Roman losses were very heavy. Among its losses it is believed that an entire legion, the XXII Deiotariana was completely wiped out. [1] Roman losses were so heavy that Hadrian's report to the Roman Senate omitted the customary salutation "I and the legions are well" (Dio 69, 14.3).
The struggle lasted for three years before the revolt was brutally crushed in the summer of 135. After losing Jerusalem, Bar Kokhba and the remnants of his army withdrew to the fortress of Betar, which also subsequently came under siege. The Jerusalem Talmud relates that the numbers slain was enormous, that the Romans "went on killing until their horses were submerged in blood to their nostrils" (Taanis 4:5). The Talmud also relates that for seventeen years the Romans didn't allow the Jews to bury their dead in Betar.

According to Cassius Dio, 580,000 Jews were killed, 50 fortified towns and 985 villages razed.[2] [3] The Romans suffered great losses as well [4]

During the Great Jewish revolt, 1,100,000 jews supposedly died.

It's interesting to note that 1948 is not the first time the Jewish nation has been back in power of Jerusalem although that is what is commonly taught.

25. "Behold, I have told you in advance.
26. "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, {or,} 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe {them.}
27. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28. "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [ the tribulation spoken of by Daniel "those days". At the end of those days Christ returns verse 30.]
30. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31. "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
[At this great tribulation as it comes to a close Christ comes back. Christ did not come back in 70 AD and He did not come back at the end of WW2.]
32. "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
33. so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, {right} at the door.

Here he is talking to those who will be believers and who will be in Jerusalem and Judea. When they see the armies coming down from Rome, they are to flee Jerusalem and head for the hills. This may be part of what Paul is refereing to when writing to the Hebrews who are not to be among those who 'shrink back' but by faith and obedience preserve their souls.

34. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

35. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. ["this generation is the generation of the great tribulation, it may be our generation or the next, but it was not any generation of the past.]

You truly need to read the history and happenings of the Jewish Revolts and the carnage that occured there, including earthquakes, blood moons, signs and wonders, chariots and angels in the clouds of all the cities of Judea... (all recorded by Josephus and mentioned by others.)
I personally cant' interpret each and every verse and I wont' attempt to. but I wont' say that they didn't happen in that generation, weather the generation was 40 years, or up to 100 years with the second revolt being squashed. There are a few verses vs 30,32 that could refer to the consumation of the elements at the end of he earth.

But one thing I would ask is if the people who Jesus spoke to interpreted what he said as meaning that all these things would happen to their generation....or if they would happen to some far distant generation. If they had thought they would be happening to some distant generation, they would have not fled when the Roman amies circled Jerusalem.

verse 35 does not imply that Heaven and earth will pass away after the great tribulation. It simply means that Jesus words are stronger in truth than the foundations that hold the earth and heavens together.

 

[Easystreet]

Has anyone read my last post? The context points to the generation of the tribulation. That has not happened yet. The context of "this generation" is Jacobs Trouble, the great tribulation. Please take time to carefully read my last post. Thanks Gordon

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Has anyone read my last post? The context points to the generation of the tribulation. That has not happened yet. The context of "this generation" is Jacobs Trouble, the great tribulation. Please take time to carefully read my last post. Thanks Gordon

Well then, the "rapture" doesn't happen until Reve 20.

http://www.scripture4all.org/
Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074> , the-this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven, and the dead-ones in Christ shall be Ressurecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) First/prwton <4412>,

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/anastasiV <386>, the First/prwth <4413>.

 

[Easystreet]

Well then, the "rapture" doesn't happen until Reve 20.

http://www.scripture4all.org/
Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074> , the-this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven, and the dead-ones in Christ shall be Ressurecting/anasthsontai <450> (5698) First/prwton <4412>,

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/anastasiV <386>, the First/prwth <4413>.

Lets stick with the first set of scripture and then we can move on to others. Examine what I have said. Do you see how the text ties together? Most none dispensationalist see the text as AD70 but the context makes that impossible. Would you agree that the context supports this? If not way?

 

[Easystreet]

Convenient theology. But you fail to deal with the facts of the text and I do know the history of these events.

When you can't deal with it you dismiss it. I use to do that, but the truth is what it is.