GUILTY

[BCP1928]

The problem with this is what identities. That is the very problem, making subjective Identity something real enough to be protected above objective reality itself. Thats what causes the problems. So yes their political ideology is incoherent to begin with. That is what most people are rejecting.

Both parties contribute to identity politics. Its now become polarised reactionary as a result. But of all political ideologies and beliefs I think its those on the Right, more conservative that are closest to reality.

I hope that they are closer to reality than your posts. The conservative talking heads you are channeling are delusional.

Are more willing to at least discuss the issues with all cards on the table and not cancelling opposing views. Which is basically supporting democracy and free speech.

And here I thought the anti war movement was a genuine uprising of uni students to the horrors of war and the US unjustified involvement.

It was, and the Pentagon didn't want them making common cause with disillusioned returning troops.

So does that mean the current government is doing the same and hiring students to protest Isreal and support Hamas.

Why? To act up and make anti-Netanyahu protester look bad? Wouldn't surprise me.

This seems strange. I think your misrepresenting things. How are the conservatives against a united workforce. What is a united workforce. It sounds like a political party itself like some Marxist socialist uprising lol.

But I think conservatives are for work, just not like the Left. They support enterprise, responsibility for yourself and family economically. So of course they want people to work, have businesses, grow business and jobs.

How ironic. Society in western nations have become the most divisive in history under Leftist governments. Under their watch we have seen a rise in identity groups at war along race, sex, gender, belief, because that is exactly what they made the issue about by injecting identity into their policy as the cause of all evils.

So of course its going to hyper focus on identity and make it personal leading to people reacting rather than just seeing differences as part of life and being a human.

But can't you see that the very policies like Intersectionality and Equity which underpin Left policies are causing the problems because they are actually making identity in most cases race but now sex and gender the only measure of things of inequality and differences. So what we have seen is an increasing narrative that every problem in society is caused by race, sex, gender and belief.

I thought that was your line--that gender nonconformity, LGBT and atheism were undermining Western culture. If only people of color, LGBTs, liberal theists and other minorities would keep to their place and keep their mouths shut about it everything would be fine.

It is well documented that DEI policies actually cause inequality and division. Thats not a belief thats a fact. We can trace the policies to actual real harm in society that is causing the conflicts and division.

The Democrates gave that up a long time ago just like the Right abandoned their philosophy. Its now all about staying in power and not about being a representation of the people.

Money corrupts, lobbying can elevate minority interests to the top of the agenda, the system can be manipulated to keep power, to get your agenda through and politics has become about popularity rather than addressing the real issues.

You're right, there. The GOP is corrupted with religious extremism, the Democrats with elitism. What this country really needs is a labor party.

 

[stevevw]

Then maybe you should stick to things you know about and are on topic instead of writing about the current US economic state

It is on topic as the current state of US economy will probably be the biggest issue for most voters. The US is certainly not in a good economic state having such high debt which it seems the Left are quite happy to increase thus making matters worse regardless of short term relief on inflation.

Not relevant.

Of course its relevant. Economics willbe the biggest issue for most people. Economic management becomes relevant when the Left attaqck Trump on his credentials as having a felony. Thats an attack on integrity and brings in all issues that relate to integrity including economic policies of each party.

The people who call it a felony are the NY state legislature which wrote the law Trump violated.

Yes a Leftis State so of course Trump is a crisis to them. But they don't represent the majority. In fact I would say for most they see the elite power brokers in NY as out of touch and abusing their power just as much as Trump.

I mean listen to Robert De niro. He is a great actor but he should stay out of politics. But this is what the Left does. They use or try to use the weight of Hollywood celebs and big corps to back their ideology.

But what they don't realise is that when De Niro says that Trumps an idiot and anyone who supports him is an idiot he and the Leftist ideologues are putting down over half the voters who disagree. They cannot accept that others have a different view on things and that anyone who disgees is somehow fundementally stupid. Thats not a good way to cast the opposition in a political debate.

More irrelevance.

How is it irrelevant. So we establish Trump is a felon. Why, why is the left using that as a political weapon. Because they want to undermine his credibility as a leader and presidential candidate.

In doing that this then opens the door for all issues that are related to credibility as a leader. Pe3ople bring up Trump is a Felon and then the reaction will be Bidens done the same but got away with it.

You bring up his business ability and people react with Biden being cognitive incoherent. Bring up his affairs and they bring up all the little dirty secrets of the Left. That is what this identity character based politics unleashes.

 

[stevevw]

Ronald Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.
-Dick Cheney 2002

Maybe back then but today is a different story as we now have decades of deficits that have been increasing. Its like anything put yourself in too high debt and your credibility suffers for future borrowing. Print more money and you devalue the dollar at the same time. Its not good policy for a household let alone a nation.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It is on topic as the current state of US economy will probably be the biggest issue for most voters. The US is certainly not in a good economic state having such high debt which it seems the Left are quite happy to increase thus making matters worse regardless of short term relief on inflation.

Of course its relevant. Economics willbe the biggest issue for most people. Economic management becomes relevant when the Left attaqck Trump on his credentials as having a felony. Thats an attack on integrity and brings in all issues that relate to integrity including economic policies of each party.

The only voters relevant to this thread are the 12 members of the jury.

Yes a Leftis State so of course Trump is a crisis to them. But they don't represent the majority. In fact I would say for most they see the elite power brokers in NY as out of touch and abusing their power just as much as Trump.

I mean listen to Robert De niro. He is a great actor but he should stay out of politics. But this is what the Left does. They use or try to use the weight of Hollywood celebs and big corps to back their ideology.

But what they don't realise is that when De Niro says that Trumps an idiot and anyone who supports him is an idiot he and the Leftist ideologues are putting down over half the voters who disagree. They cannot accept that others have a different view on things and that anyone who disgees is somehow fundementally stupid. Thats not a good way to cast the opposition in a political debate.

Don't care. Not relevant.

How is it irrelevant. So we establish Trump is a felon.

Then we can end the thread as the basic facts are established.

Why, why is the left using that as a political weapon. Because they want to undermine his credibility as a leader and presidential candidate.

In doing that this then opens the door for all issues that are related to credibility as a leader. Pe3ople bring up Trump is a Felon and then the reaction will be Bidens done the same but got away with it.

There is no evidence that Biden has done anything like this. He doesn't even have a NY business that could violate NY state criminal codes.

You bring up his business ability and people react with Biden being cognitive incoherent. Bring up his affairs and they bring up all the little dirty secrets of the Left. That is what this identity character based politics unleashes.

Don't care what ever it is you are on about.

 

[NxNW]

It is on topic as the current state of US economy will probably be the biggest issue for most voters. The US is certainly not in a good economic state having such high debt

The economy is in great shape. The GOP has no problem increasing the debt, as I've pointed out earlier.

 

[stevevw]

The economy is in great shape. The GOP has no problem increasing the debt, as I've pointed out earlier.

Of course they won't opposed an increase in debt because there's no other way out of the mess at the end of the day. But the question is will increasing the debt make things better or worse. According to even simple bugeting and management increasing debt when you cannot afford it is not a good idea.

The US economy is not in great shape. It it overall still in a precarious place. Much of the so called recovery is also based on debt, credit card debt has massively increased and more people are struggling to pay mortgages and bills.

But once again credit will reach a limit where it cannot be serviced any longer and this is when the market will adjust and the reality of the situation will come out. All they are doing is rearranging the deck chairs as the ship slowly sinks.

 

[stevevw]

The only voters relevant to this thread are the 12 members of the jury.

Your missing the whole point of the thread then. Why was the thread created. To expose Trump as a felon. We can all agree that Trump is a felon. End of thread. But that is unreal.

The real point of this thread is that some want to show how Trump is unfit of president right. That then brings in everything regarding the fitness of the presidential candidates.

Thats unless you want to make the thread all about piling on Trump. But then it becomes a withch hunt.

Don't care. Not relevant.

How is it not relevant. Your making a claim that Trumps a felon and unfit. Your using the determination of a State that is pro Left and after Trump as evidence he is unfit. Surely then we need to scrutinise this. Is Trump really unfit, what is unfit, is there any bias, do those going after Trump have any political motivation or do they do the same thing as they are accusing Trump of. All this is on the table for discussion.

Then we can end the thread as the basic facts are established.

Yes but I don't think that was the true intention of this thread. Lets remind people what the OP actually said. It actually calls for comments on these issues I am raising ie

Please........Make your excuses. Spout your conspiracy theories. Tell us how this makes him an even better candidate. What I want to hear about most is how corrupt the judge was when he was found guilty by a jury of his peers.

Then the OP asks people to comment on the fairness of the courts when it comes to race which is well beyond his guilt and this case alone.

Let us know about the same courts' fairness as it relates to race because every known statistic shows the disparity.

So the door was opened by the OP and all is relevant.

There is no evidence that Biden has done anything like this. He doesn't even have a NY business that could violate NY state criminal codes.

Yes but he has a son who seems to have done some shady deals using his fathers influence. Or there may be some underhanded manipulation of power in getting Trump. Time will tell. Or it may be dirty secret arms deals or breaches of privacy and freedoms done. But all is on the table and no one should be prevented from asking those questions and investigating these matters.

It doesn't have to be the exact same crime or immoral act. Its anything, all is now open to scrutiny. Thats the game the Left is playing and that is how it will play out.

Don't care what ever it is you are on about.

Well like the Left you are dismissing the majority of people who ask these questions and who feel this way. That is the problem that one side doesn't care to even hear what the other side is saying. Treating them like idiots, conspiracy nuts, whingers, and as Di Nero said "stupid" and good old Hilary said are all "deplorables" thus demonising the majority of people. Not the best way to treat the concerns of the majority of people.

 

[NxNW]

The US economy is not in great shape. It it overall still in a precarious place. Much of the so called recovery is also based on debt, credit card debt has massively increased and more people are struggling to pay mortgages and bills.

The relevant numbers say otherwise.

 

[BCP1928]

Your missing the whole point of the thread then. Why was the thread created. To expose Trump as a felon. We can all agree that Trump is a felon. End of thread. But that is unreal.

The real point of this thread is that some want to show how Trump is unfit of president right. That then brings in everything regarding the fitness of the presidential candidates.

Thats unless you want to make the thread all about piling on Trump. But then it becomes a withch hunt.

How is it not relevant. Your making a claim that Trumps a felon and unfit. Your using the determination of a State that is pro Left and after Trump as evidence he is unfit. Surely then we need to scrutinise this. Is Trump really unfit, what is unfit, is there any bias, do those going after Trump have any political motivation or do they do the same thing as they are accusing Trump of. All this is on the table for discussion.

Yes but I don't think that was the true intention of this thread. Lets remind people what the OP actually said. It actually calls for comments on these issues I am raising ie

Please........Make your excuses. Spout your conspiracy theories. Tell us how this makes him an even better candidate. What I want to hear about most is how corrupt the judge was when he was found guilty by a jury of his peers.

Then the OP asks people to comment on the fairness of the courts when it comes to race which is well beyond his guilt and this case alone.

Let us know about the same courts' fairness as it relates to race because every known statistic shows the disparity.

So the door was opened by the OP and all is relevant.


Yes but he has a son who seems to have done some shady deals using his fathers influence. Or there may be some underhanded manipulation of power in getting Trump. Time will tell. Or it may be dirty secret arms deals or breaches of privacy and freedoms done. But all is on the table and no one should be prevented from asking those questions and investigating these matters.

It doesn't have to be the exact same crime or immoral act. Its anything, all is now open to scrutiny. Thats the game the Left is playing and that is how it will play out.

Welllike the Left you are dismissing the majorit of people who ask these questions and who feel this way. That is the problem that one side doesn't care to even hear what the other side is saying. Treating them like idiots, conspiracy nuts, whingers, and as Di Nero said "stupid" and good old Hilary said are all "deplorables" thus demonising the majority of people. Not the best way to treat the concerns of the majority of people.

There is no need for a thread to expose Trump as a felon. We all already know he is a felon. What this thread is about is the people who support him in spite of it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Your missing the whole point of the thread then. Why was the thread created. To expose Trump as a felon. We can all agree that Trump is a felon. End of thread.

\thread

But that is unreal.

He did the crime, now he gets to find out how much time he gets. Seems pretty real to me.

The real point of this thread is that some want to show how Trump is unfit of president right. That then brings in everything regarding the fitness of the presidential candidates.

No it doesn't. Thread is about Trump's guilty verdict.

Thats unless you want to make the thread all about piling on Trump. But then it becomes a withch hunt.

Why can't threads be about just one thing? Do you have some sort of compulsion to expand the topical coverage?

How is it not relevant. Your making a claim that Trumps a felon and unfit.

I don't recall saying Trump was unfit because he is a felon. I said he was unfit before I ever joined this board. Being found guilty of his crimes doesn't make him any more unfit than flat out unfit.

Your using the determination of a State that is pro Left and after Trump as evidence he is unfit.

Again, no. He's would still be unfit if he'd been acquitted. And it was a jury rather than a "pro-Left state" that made the guilty determination. (Do you guys not have juries in antepodia?)

Surely then we need to scrutinise this. Is Trump really unfit, what is unfit, is there any bias, do those going after Trump have any political motivation or do they do the same thing as they are accusing Trump of. All this is on the table for discussion.

Yes but I don't think that was the true intention of this thread. Lets remind people what the OP actually said. It actually calls for comments on these issues I am raising ie

Please........Make your excuses. Spout your conspiracy theories. Tell us how this makes him an even better candidate. What I want to hear about most is how corrupt the judge was when he was found guilty by a jury of his peers.

Then the OP asks people to comment on the fairness of the courts when it comes to race which is well beyond his guilt and this case alone.

Let us know about the same courts' fairness as it relates to race because every known statistic shows the disparity.

So the door was opened by the OP and all is relevant.

What is this now? Thread commentary? We don't need that. We need SHORTER POSTS.

Yes but he has a son who seems to have done some shady deals using his fathers influence. Or there may be some underhanded manipulation of power in getting Trump. Time will tell. Or it may be dirty secret arms deals or breaches of privacy and freedoms done. But all is on the table and no one should be prevented from asking those questions and investigating these matters.

It doesn't have to be the exact same crime or immoral act. Its anything, all is now open to scrutiny. Thats the game the Left is playing and that is how it will play out.

Not about any Bidens. Go find a Biden thread to post about this. This is whataboutism.

Welllike the Left you are dismissing the majorit of people who ask these questions and who feel this way. That is the problem that one side doesn't care to even hear what the other side is saying. Treating them like idiots, conspiracy nuts, whingers, and as Di Nero said "stupid" and good old Hilary said are all "deplorables" thus demonising the majority of people. Not the best way to treat the concerns of the majority of people.

WHAT? (No, please don't answer.)

 

[Pommer]

Of course they won't opposed an increase in debt because there's no other way out of the mess at the end of the day. But the question is will increasing the debt make things better or worse. According to even simple bugeting and management increasing debt when you cannot afford it is not a good idea.

The US economy is not in great shape. It it overall still in a precarious place. Much of the so called recovery is also based on debt, credit card debt has massively increased and more people are struggling to pay mortgages and bills.

But once again credit will reach a limit where it cannot be serviced any longer and this is when the market will adjust and the reality of the situation will come out. All they are doing is rearranging the deck chairs as the ship slowly sinks.

Most of the US’s public debt is money that we owe to ourselves, and most of us still think that we’re good for it!

 

[Pommer]

Well like the Left you are dismissing the majority of people who ask these questions and who feel this way. That is the problem that one side doesn't care to even hear what the other side is saying. Treating them like idiots, conspiracy nuts, whingers, and as Di Nero said "stupid" and good old Hilary said are all "deplorables" thus demonising the majority of people. Not the best way to treat the concerns of the majority of people.

We were told that feelings don’t matter, has that changed?

 

[stevevw]

The relevant numbers say otherwise.

What relevant numbers, the same ones that said debt was ok last time and the time before that. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and pretending everything will be ok. So called experts have got it wrong so many times its hard to believe anything that comes out of their mouth.

All the have is the boom and bust cycle the current system keeps repeating. Each time it collapses with repeat the same mistakes of consumerism and an insatiable thirst for growth and profits at all costs like it represents success. Well it doesn't and any society that puts profits before people is doomed to fail.

 

[stevevw]

There is no need for a thread to expose Trump as a felon. We all already know he is a felon. What this thread is about is the people who support him in spite of it.

So therefore you need to listen to the reasons why people support Trump despite his conviction. So as I said all is on the table about defending Trump as the candidate and refuting why Biden and the Left is not a suitable candidate.

Your opening up the discussion by making it about the supporters of Trump and what they think. You can't then say its all irrelevant. Though that is what the Left do rather than being willing to put all the cards on the table and being open to the truth.

 

[Pommer]

So therefore you need to listen to the reasons why people support Trump despite his conviction. So as I said all is on the table about defending Trump as the candidate and refuting why Biden and the Left is not a suitable candidate.

Your opening up the discussion by making it about the supporters of Trump and what they think. You can't then say its all irrelevant. Though that is what the Left do rather than being willing to put all the cards on the table and being open to the truth.

This sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump is only being prosecuted because of partisanship, even though he’s had due process and has lost, (for the time-being).

Maybe if he had have “just compiled” with the Federal Subpoena for return of the documents he is alleged to have taken illegally, he wouldn’t have a case pending in Florida?

 

[stevevw]

\thread

He did the crime, now he gets to find out how much time he gets. Seems pretty real to me.

Oh ok so we can keep the thread going, just keep repeating he is a felon, speak of nothing else until the sentencing as all else is irrelevant.

Whats the point of all this. Why are we not making a thread about Joe Blow or some other politician or noteworthy person within society. Why such effort and scrutiny on one man lol.

No it doesn't. Thread is about Trump's guilty verdict.

OK so in disputing his guilty verdict I would imagine that issues like whether the system is fair, whether the Left used power in manipulating the system and examples of this are all relevant. Yet when I speak about that system you say its irrelevant.

But I keep coming back to why its important. Why is it an issue in the first place. Why people want to bring up such an issue and defend that Trump is guilty.

Why can't threads be about just one thing? Do you have some sort of compulsion to expand the topical coverage?

No expansion is just a natural consequence of bringing up an issue. Thats unless you live in some Totalitarian nation that doesn't allow different beliefs and views about what is going on.

Like I said to be able to question the validity of Trumps guilty verdict we have to be able to question the integrity of the system and the Left itself. Their motives, political partisanship, corruption within government ect.

I don't recall saying Trump was unfit because he is a felon. I said he was unfit before I ever joined this board. Being found guilty of his crimes doesn't make him any more unfit than flat out unfit.

Ok so this has nothing to do with prior political beliefs or biases. I doubt that. It seems to the high heavens as a political hack job even if Trumps guilty of the very crime he committed.

I still cannot understand how a relatively minor act is made into a felony. They seemed to have jumped through loops to make it so. Would another person be treated in the same way. Have the same amount of effort and attention to apply some manipulation of the law.

Again, no. He's would still be unfit if he'd been acquitted. And it was a jury rather than a "pro-Left state" that made the guilty determination. (Do you guys not have juries in antepodia?)

Hum I don't have faith in the NY system of being unbiased. When you have a Judge who is openly hostile to the defendent in the way they target him then this casts doubt over his neutrality in instructing the court and Jury. When the only witness is a hostile one with a criminal record. Yet no one doubts his words therefore overlooking his criminal past for the sake of getting Trump.

When even some Jury members have been hostile to the defendent. When certain celebs and people in powerful positions treat Trump guilty before the case has been heard and an entire state political system coming out hostile to the defendent doesn't seem very neutral to me.

What is this now? Thread commentary? We don't need that. We need SHORTER POSTS.

Lol your the one who brought this up as a commentary when you tried to restrict the thread and dismissing what I said as irrelevant. So then it seems reasonable that we bring up the actual commentary about what this thread is about. That commentary was from the OP which said its ok to bring up this stuff you call irrelevant. Even encouraging it.

Not about any Bidens. Go find a Biden thread to post about this. This is whataboutism.

Lol do you honestly think any thread having a god at Biden is not going to bring up Trumps a felon. Come on get real.

WHAT? (No, please don't answer.)

Why thats exactly what this thread was designed to do. So of course people are going to point this out. Its saying Trumps a felon and therefore should not be president or is not fit to be president and anyone who supports this is wrong and cannot see the truth.

Otherwise why make a thread about Trump. Why not some random bloke or a minor player. Whats the actual motive for this thread.

 

[stevevw]

We were told that feelings don’t matter, has that changed?

Feelings, beliefs and personal views and experience matter in the context of reality. They need to first be heard and taken seriously as this is how a person or groups sees things. Feelings are a part of this.

What I said though not very well was that there are reasons why people feel the way they do and its those reasons that need to be heard. If people feel disenfrnachised or descriminated against or believe a party of the system is denying their rights or putting the nation in jepody those reasons need to be heard and not dismissed.

Obviously those who support Trump have deep seated and strong beliefs about what Trump represents as opposed to Biden and its obviously clear that the Left have very strong feelings about Trump and his policies. I mean when Trump won many Democrates were actually crying and in shock.

So we have to be able to discuss those feelings and reasons to be able to hear both sides to be able to allow a fair hearing and determination. Thats not happening, people are cancelling speech that they don't like hearing.

Notice that they cancel what they 'don't like and hate hearing' and not reasoning why its wrong factually. Thats identity politics. Thats when feelings become everything and trumps (pun intended) reality itself.

 

[stevevw]

This sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump is only being prosecuted because of partisanship, even though he’s had due process and has lost, (for the time-being).

Maybe if he had have “just compiled” with the Federal Subpoena for return of the documents he is alleged to have taken illegally, he wouldn’t have a case pending in Florida?

Ok so your talking about another case that hasn't been heard yet, is that right. I am not sure.

But no about partisanship but the right to ask those questions and investigate this. Considering that it appears that Trump has been treated differently as far as the relentless witch hunt to get him for something, anything and the level of Left leaning positions of power involved I think its right to have suspicions and investigate.

 

[BCP1928]

So therefore you need to listen to the reasons why people support Trump despite his conviction. So as I said all is on the table about defending Trump as the candidate and refuting why Biden and the Left is not a suitable candidate.

Your opening up the discussion by making it about the supporters of Trump and what they think. You can't then say its all irrelevant. Though that is what the Left do rather than being willing to put all the cards on the table and being open to the truth.

Oh, grow up. I was just needling you.

 

[ozso]

The relevant numbers say otherwise.

The numbers vs what most people are actually experiencing in real life.