GUILTY

[Hans Blaster]

If you trace the conversation, where does it end up, at Trump. The reason I said its common practice for businesses to cook the books was because someone was saying he committed business fraud and was using that to discredit him as a polititian.

He discredits himself. Trump is a walking target of opportunity. It is remarkable that someone with so many possible vulnerabilities can even get into a nominating debate. As for the conversation, the conversation does not end up at Trump, that is where it begins.

Why else would it come up, because we were talking about the state of business or doing a survey on business fraud. No its only and always been about Trump. His business ability, his personal relations, his can't remember what DeNero said but it was personal. Its always being brought up to personally attack Trump.

See above. I'm not impressed by his "business ability" anyway.

You miss the point. We already have enough problems with Identity Politics. This is just going to make it way worse. It won't just happen with the elite its going to trickle all the way down to the streets. This will only divide people more and make them antagonistic towards each other.

Trump and his crimes are not about "identity politics". Nor is business corruption, nor old-fashioned political corruption. Put down the "woke", it is not relevant to the convo.

This will put US politics in the gutter. Now polititians will be playing the man and not the ball like never before. Especially when it gets close to the election. I just hope there can be debate on the issues without it decending into a slang match about which side is the most pious.

Where have you been for the last 200 years? (Oh, not in the USA.)

So yes we should be stopping it, not encouraging it. Theres a difference between bringing up someones past when relevant and making it a meme.

What? (No, please don't answer.)

 

[stevevw]

You're the one who thinks it's moral, you tell me.

You have been targeting Christianity for the entire time we have been talking. You keep coming back to having a go at Christians. I am not sure why but it seems no matter what I say you come back to making a jibe about Christians.

I mean you have a right to do that but I am wondering what the whole point of this is. Its almost like your giving the same kind of treatment that Trump has got to Christians or the Christian faith perhaps. I am not sure but it seems much more on your mind that would seem justified.

 

[BCP1928]

You have been targeting Christianity for the entire time we have been talking. You keep coming back to having a go at Christians. I am not sure why but it seems no matter what I say you come back to making a jibe about Christians.

I mean you have a right to do that but I am wondering what the whole point of this is. Its almost like your giving the same kind of treatment that Trump has got to Christians or the Christian faith perhaps. I am not sure but it seems much more on your mind that would seem justified.

No, I am not targeting Christians. I am targeting a particular subset of Christians who are preaching a doctrine that I think is blasphemous and disgusting. I presented you with an example which you didn't even try to deny.

 

[stevevw]

He discredits himself. Trump is a walking target of opportunity. It is remarkable that someone with so many possible vulnerabilities can even get into a nominating debate.

Well that is what I would like to see. If Trump ends up being the Republics candidate then I would hope there were some debates on content and policy rather than personalities and character.

As for the conversation, the conversation does not end up at Trump, that is where it begins.

Actually it begins and then ends with Trump and then ends and ends and ends and ends ect ect ect again and again and again lol. It will never end. The Left will be milking this one to the hilt lol. But they better be careful it doesn't backfire.

See above. I'm not impressed by his "business ability" anyway.

I'm not impressed with most polititians. Biden cannot even put a sentence together let along run a business. He is a constant liar but then that may be his cognitive impairment and memory loss. If he is the best they have then that doesn't reflect well of the Left.

Trump and his crimes are not about "identity politics". Nor is business corruption, nor old-fashioned political corruption. Put down the "woke", it is not relevant to the convo.

OK so we have determined Trump is a Felon. What do we do next. Just repeat, repeat, repeat. Or find some other bad stuff on Trump and pile it on. Is this what the thread was designed for. I am not sure what to do now. Hum oh thats right 'Trumps a Felon' lol. What next. Let me think.

Where have you been for the last 200 years? (Oh, not in the USA.)

You know what I mean. Talk about whistling in the dark. What I think the US is decending into is different to the good old political stoushes in the past. Things are much more polarised thanks to identity politics.

I came across this article for another thread which I think sums up the current state of US politics at the moment and shows the seriousness of all this tit for tat attacks from both sides.

Drivers of Political Violence in the United States
Public opinion surveys show that more than one-third of Americans regard the use of political violence against the government or political opponents to be acceptable (Balz, Clement, and Guskin 2022), and there is evidence that public tolerance for political violence may be increasing (Diamond et al. 2020).

Scholars who typically study civil wars in other countries have begun to examine whether the United States is on track to itself experience widespread domestic violent civil conflict (Walter 2022). In recent testimony before Congress, Rachel Kleinfeld of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace noted that, according to polling, the current level of public acceptance of political violence in the United States is approaching that exhibited in Northern Ireland during the height of the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the early 1970s (Kleinfeld 2022).

What explains the volatile situation in which the United States presently finds itself? This commentary investigates four important drivers of political violence in the United States today: toxic political polarization, toxic identity-based ideologies, assaults on democratic norms, and disinformation and political conspiracies. Each of these contributes to violent political instability. I briefly explain each in turn and discuss some potential ways to address them.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07439156221133763

 

[Hans Blaster]

You know what I mean. Talk about whistling in the dark. What I think the US is decending into is different to the good old political stoushes in the past. Things are much more polarised thanks to identity politics.

You are obsessed with identity politics, not I. It warps your view of things.

 

[Bradskii]

Well that is what I would like to see. If Trump ends up being the Republics candidate then I would hope there were some debates on content and policy rather than personalities and character.

The fact that so many people are ignoring 'character' is a large part of the problem.

Policies define the party. Character defines the president. And he's the guy that represents the country.

 

[ozso]

This is rather interesting:

 

[Pommer]

This is rather interesting:

What, (exactly) did you find in this video that piqued your interest? What timestamp would you like to point out that highlights your interest?
Thank you.

 

[stevevw]

You are obsessed with identity politics, not I. It warps your view of things.

I am not the only person who thinks this way and in fact the minority who don't are to use a phrase from identity politics (IP) your not 'Woke'. But in the true sense of the word as being aware of what is going on and not the hijacked meaning of ideology.

Surveys have consistently shown that the majority of people think IP is a problem for society and are sick of it.

Its unfortunate we have to use such words. Maybe call it personalising politics or culture wars. But politics, well its not just politics its cultural and also all over social media, media in general. Its turned people away from civil discussion between different beliefs and views to attacking different beliefs and views to attacking different identities that hold those different beliefs and views.

Poll: 71% of Americans Say Political Correctness Has Silenced Discussions Society Needs to Have, 58% Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

https://www.cato.org/blog/poll-71-americans-say-political-correctness-has-silenced-discussions-society-needs-have-58

In fact the rise of antisemetism is the end result of identity politics and culture wars.

The political, social and moral landscape has changed and its become a lot more polarised even to the point of antagonism and violence especially online within social media but even when people of opposing views come together on the streets its more often decending into violence.

You may or may not remember how this has been evolving for some time now maybe within the last 15 or 20 years how it began with PC which is identity politics twin and people were dismissing it then. Then came intersectionality, cancel culture and the rest which has evolved into what we have to today. This is real and has had real effects on people, losing jobs, reputations for basically holding the wrong beliefs and views.

But now it seems its not just jobs and reputation but now actually getting to a point where people are more willing to actually attack others physically, smash property and I think potentially kill people. Thats how serious it is getting.

How America's identity politics went from inclusion to division

How America's identity politics went from inclusion to division

Political tribalism has reached a new peak, writes Amy Chua in her new book, and it leaves the US in a new perilous situation

www.theguardian.com

Culture wars: How identity became the center of politics in America

Culture wars: How identity became the center of politics in America

The so-called culture wars taking over politics ahead of the 2024 presidential election have been decades in the making.

abcnews.go.com

The following paper is an eye opener.

Drivers of Political Violence in the United States
Public opinion surveys show that more than one-third of Americans regard the use of political violence against the government or political opponents to be acceptable (Balz, Clement, and Guskin 2022), and there is evidence that public tolerance for political violence may be increasing (Diamond et al. 2020).

In recent testimony before Congress, Rachel Kleinfeld of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace noted that, according to polling, the current level of public acceptance of political violence in the United States is approaching that exhibited in Northern Ireland during the height of the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the early 1970s (Kleinfeld 2022).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07439156221133763

 

[Hans Blaster]

I am not the only person who thinks this way and in fact the minority who don't are to use a phrase from identity politics (IP) your not 'Woke'. But in the true sense of the word as being aware of what is going on and not the hijacked meaning of ideology.

I know of no one who accuses others of not being "woke" enough. The usage of that word on the left has been utterly destroyed by the RW culture warriors defining it so they can be "anti-woke". It is a useless term now. In other news...

Trump is guilty of multiple felonies in New York County.

 

[wing2000]

If I was forced to pick a candidate for the US presendency I think I would lean towards Trump. Not necessarily because I like Trump more but more I dislike and worry more about the Lefts current trajectory in what it is doing to society, the economy, immigration and how I think Leftist ideology is becoming more radical towards Totalitarianism.

...it's the Republican Party that is lining up behind an authoritarian leader. It's not just the "ideological Left" that is opposed to the MAGA movement. Many Republicans and Independents are opposed to MAGA as well.

Why Evangelicals. Is that something only applied to the US. As I don't think we have any Evangelicals here. Well at least in politics or power. But once again another fallacy and personal attack on a group, classic identity politics. Target the groups morals, their integrity rather than deal with the issues at hand.

Therein lies the difference: Evangelicals have been heavily involved in politics since the Carter adminisstration. For for four decades, a candidate's character mattered....that is until 2016. The fact is, Evangelical voters are the reason Trump was elected in 2016. And they're continued support is the reason Trump is the GOP candidate for President this year.

 

[stevevw]

The fact that so many people are ignoring 'character' is a large part of the problem.

Policies define the party. Character defines the president. And he's the guy that represents the country.

Well all I can say is both candidates have their own faults and neither are worthy. Surely out of all possibilities there would have been more options.

I disagree that character has much to do with it at least as far as moral character anyway as both fail on that count. All we have left is ability to run a large nation like the US. In some ways I would rather a person who may have some minor character flaws but is able to get the nation back in order than who who claims to have a moral character but wrecks the nation.

Once you start opening up the can of worms which is character then people start digging and throwing mud. That is identity politics. Its easy to decend into anything and everything being strutinised and that then takes precedence over all else. Thats identity politics.

It should be a balanced approach where moral character is but one part of a variety of measures including how well each candidte will manage the nation and whatever that takes which could include a number of issues. It seems the majority of people already knew Trump wasn't the most ideal character and yet he still won and seems to be leading again.

I think it was Trumps management that outweighed all else. So it has to be a number of indicators and not just personal character.

 

[stevevw]

I know of no one who accuses others of not being "woke" enough. The usage of that word on the left has been utterly destroyed by the RW culture warriors defining it so they can be "anti-woke". It is a useless term now. In other news...

Trump is guilty of multiple felonies in New York County.

Ok well call it something else. I hate the name as well. But whatever you want to call it PC, identity politics, culture wars, the new religious ideology thats sweeping modern society, its a reality of modern society.

There would be no mention from the Right if there was not something to mention that needs mentioning due to the fact its having a tanglible effect on people and society.

Its actually had a massive financial effect on people and corporations. People are afraid to express their beliefs and views which is a sign of the state of democratic health. Its real enough for people to become antagonist and physically violent towards each other.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ok well call it something else. I hate the name as well. But whatever you want to call it PC, identity politics, culture wars, the new religious ideology thats sweeping modern society, its a reality of modern society.

There would be no mention from the Right if there was not something to mention that needs mentioning due to the fact its having a tanglible effect on people and society.

Its actually had a massive financial effect on people and corporations. People are afraid to express their beliefs and views which is a sign of the state of democratic health. Its real enough for people to become antagonist and physically violent towards each other.

It is nothing new under the glow of the Sun and Trump is guilty.

 

[BCP1928]

Ok well call it something else. I hate the name as well. But whatever you want to call it PC, identity politics, culture wars, the new religious ideology thats sweeping modern society, its a reality of modern society.

There would be no mention from the Right if there was not something to mention that needs mentioning due to the fact its having a tanglible effect on people and society.

Its actually had a massive financial effect on people and corporations. People are afraid to express their beliefs and views which is a sign of the state of democratic health. Its real enough for people to become antagonist and physically violent towards each other.

You don't seem to be afraid of expressing hateful beliefs and views. Is that because you think you're safe down their in Oz?

 

[DaisyDay]

Of course the anti-Trump are going to say that. I wouldn't expect anything different. Just like the Right think he has done good.

Donald Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize. Will it help him in Presidential Election 2024?
Republican lawmaker has nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize citing his role in the Abraham Accords treaty. Abraham Accord was signed in 2020 during his presidency and it normalized relations between Israel, Bahrain and the UAE. He has been nominated for this prestigious prize for the fourth time.

Donald Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize. Will it help him in Presidential Election 2024?

Former US President Donald Trump was first nominated in 2020 by Christian Tybring-Gjedde, a member of the Norwegian Parliament, for helping in a deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates. Why he has been nominated now?

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Trump Administration Accomplishments
Almost 4 million jobs created since election, median household income has hit highest level ever recorded, almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election, signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history, reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports, net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion and more thorough vetting of refugess and building the Wall.

Trump Administration Accomplishments – The White House

trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov

.

Why, many people with criminal records have gone on to do great things. I would rather a person who may have done something minor criminally than someone who has a clean record and yet is secretly decieving people while pretending to be holier than thou.

I think with Trump, what you see is what you get. He doesn't really hide his brash and shifty behaviour. Its the ones who pretend to be morally superior yet they are like sheep in wolves clothing are the ones you have to watch out for.

Do you honestly think there was no coverup with Hunter Biden. Come on lets get real. What about the Clintons, they are no saints.

For me I don't think either candidate is ideal. It perhaps reflects the state of US politics that they can only come up with poor representatives. Surely there is better candidates. I would think if the Right replaces Trump with someone of similar but not with the baggage they would win the election.

Theres a mood among the people I think where they want change. THis seems to be happening around the world where Leftist governments are being voted out and the Right is coming back into favor. The election cycle seems to work this way and has done for decades.

This is especially true as we are now seeing the devastation of radical Leftist ideology around the world.

Lols, that list came out in 2018. Sadly, Donald's abysmal handling of the pandemic wiped out his "accomplishments" leaving the country with damaged supply lines, predicted recession (which his successor avoided), no infrastructure bill and debt up the wazoo.

 

[Bradskii]

I disagree that character has much to do with it at least as far as moral character anyway as both fail on that count.

That you can equate the character of one with the other makes any subsequent opinion worthless.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

It is nothing new under the glow of the Sun and Trump is guilty.

What’s that you say? Trump was found guilty of something?

 

[stevevw]

That you can equate the character of one with the other makes any subsequent opinion worthless.

Exactly

 

[BCP1928]

What’s that you say? Trump was found guilty of something?

No, of course not. That is, he was found guilty of something he didn't do, or if he did do it it was not something very serious that other people do all the time. Anyway, the trial was rigged.