Guess the verse

[Avid]

^ that's nice, but it's kind'a a broad question, isn't it?

i dunno.

This is not preached much these days. Don't know of any place, but one, I have heard it preached in the last 30 or 50 years! Recently heard our pastor touch on the last verse of this passage, but most are afraid to even read the rest of it.

II Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
​

Another place, the same principle is set forth by the LORD. This is obviously where Peter learned it specifically. This I have heard mentioned in Church.

Here, the LORD Himself warns of this principle, but puts it a little differently:

Luke 11
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
​

Also, this is found in Matt.12:43-45 in almost the exact same wording.

Have an unusual story concerning the chapter in Peter. Send me a PM if you are curious.

Next question, Brinny...
.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

important interjection as Yhvh is Righteous. (can't put in other thread or any more fully)

Yes, Gen 19:8. To "offer" his two daughters like that was despicable and an aberrant thing to do.....i cannot reconcile THAT and a man who would do such a thing, as "righteous".

Realize that today, you probably don't know in person(hardly anyone does know) anyone who is righteous according to Yhvh or Scripture. That is how depraved the world / society / is, and why we have to seek ABBA diligently without letup.

Lot considered the protection of the heavenly visitors more important than anything else, as well he should. As Abraham was righteous, offering as a sacrifice his own son, considering Yhvh able to raise him from the dead.

And Scripture, Yhvh the Creator , clearly calls him righteous: Lot, is righteous, without hesitation, and as an example for ekklesia(Yhvh's People).
" 2 Peter 2:7-10 KJV - And delivered just Lot, vexed with the ...

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul .. "

 

[brinny]

God never directed Lot to offer his daughters to these evil men. It's akin to offering a peace offering to idols to "appease" them (the idols) as the Pagans did, which God abhorred.

Lot was most likely considered "righteous" by God for Abraham's sake. Lot did not do righteously by marrying a woman from those cities, and further to REMAIN in those cities as he did, was not righteous.

He, in essence, chose his wife over God, and that's why he remained there as he did, because she LOVED it there, as indicated by her turning back to look at the burning cities, against the warning not to, and was consequently turned to a pillar of salt.

Getting back to Lot offering his daughters the way he did was evil. He was despicable as a father.

He knew the visitors were "heavenly"....he also should've known that they could take care of themselves. God intended that Lot and his entire family should be removed "safely" from the evil and condemned place. What we see here is a lack of trust in God to be able to do so, and an "appeasement offering" to the evil mob outside, when he offered his daughters to such depravity. He feared the mob more than God and was in essence, "bowing" down to them.

Maybe he should've offered himself if he was so worried about protecting these two messengers from God (who were more than capable of taking care of themselves from this depraved mob).

 

[brinny]

Shame on Lot.

 

[brinny]

In which verse does God condemn His people for choosing a king?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God's Word never condemns nor even says specifically that Lot in offering his daughters, and later when they slept with him and had babies by him, was sinning.

God's Word and God's Ways are far far far different than any people know today.

Today, there is so much evil in comparison - every day 23 soldiers commit suicide. Every day, over 1000 babies are put to death by their parents.(or doctors hired by the parents).
Every day, abominations are practiced IN CHURCHES across and around the world and the usa.

Lot was almost driven insane by the wickedness around him.
I think he picked the place to live on his own, it is not written that it was because he listened to his wife.

God says Lot is Righteous by his own faith, same as any one else who is called righteous - it is only by their own faith in God, not their relatives.

it is even written that the three great men of faith could not by their faith save their own sons, that the sons would only be saved by their own faith. (as it is today)

 

[brinny]

Interesting viewpoint.

Was Lot a holy man of God?