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WarriorAngel

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SLAVERY AND THE FIRST CHRISTIANS

But did the early Church endorse slavery? Certainly, the early Christians more or less tolerated the slavery of their day, as seen from the New Testament itself and the fact that after Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire, slavery was not immediately outlawed. Even so, this doesn't mean Christianity was compatible with Roman slavery or that the early Church did not contribute to its demise. In that regard, there are a number of important points to be kept in mind.

First, while Paul told slaves to obey their masters, he made no general defense of slavery as such, anymore than he made a general defense of the pagan government of Rome, which Christians were also instructed to obey despite its injustices (cf. Rom. 13:1-7). He seems simply to have regarded slavery as an intractable part of the social order, an order which he may well have thought would pass away shortly (1 Cor 7:29-31).

Second, Paul told masters to treat their slaves justly and kindly (Eph 6:9; Col 4:1), implying that slaves are not mere property for masters to do with as they please.

Third, Paul implied that the brotherhood shared by Christians is ultimately incompatible with chattel slavery. In the case of the runaway slave Onesimus, Paul wrote to Philemon, the slave's master, instructing him to receive Onesimus back "no longer as a slave but more than a slave, a brother" (Philem. 6). With respect to salvation in Christ, Paul insisted that "there is neither slave nor free . . . you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:27-28).

Fourth, the Christian principles of charity ("love your neighbor as yourself") and the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would them to do unto you") espoused by the New Testament writers are ultimately incompatible with chattel slavery, even if, because of its deeply established role as a social institution, this point was not clearly understood by all at the time.

Fifth, while the Christian Empire didn't immediately outlaw slavery, some Church fathers (such as Gregory of Nyssa and John Chrysostom) strongly denounced it. But then, the state has often failed to enact a just social order in accordance with Church teachings.

Sixth, some early Christians liberated their slaves, while some churches redeemed slaves using the congregation's common means. Other Christians even sacrificially sold themselves into slavery to emancipate others.

Seventh, even where slavery was not altogether repudiated, the slaves and freemen had equal access to the sacraments, and many clerics were from slave backgrounds, including two popes (Pius I and Callistus). This implies a fundamental equality incompatible with slavery.

Eighth, the Church ameliorated the harsher aspects of slavery in the Empire, even trying to protect slaves by law, until slavery all but disappeared in the West. It was, of course, to re-emerge during the Renaissance, as Europeans encountered Muslim slave traders and the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
 
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sunlover1

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I will pray for you. :pray:
:hug:
I appreciate your prayers racer, and I thank
all who were so gentle with me over this.
Wanted to give an update.

It's been over six months now and they seem
to be a darling couple,.... and watching him
with her toddler blesses me too.

Week ago Sunday morn', he knocked on my door
and asked what time my church began; says
his gfriend wants to go! I tried to act casual
about it..:cool:

Asked him the other day if he thought she liked
my church, he said, evidently so, since she
was telling coworkers and sort of invited them to
try it.

Who woulda thunk?

BTW, I never once said another word or prayed for
anything but let God's will be done.
Anyhow, time will tell, but I think they're pretty wise
and will make good choices whatever they decide to do.

:amen:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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HandmaidenOfGod

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And what would you do if you found out all this time her parents were praying that your son became Catholic? Would you be offended? And what if your son went to the Catholic Church and liked it? And (dare I say it) wanted to convert? Would you disown him?
 
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Rick Otto

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Daughter informed me that son (who still lives home) has
a girl, and her name is Mary, and he's not mentioned it
to me cos "didnt feel like playing 20 questions".
That was mostly a joke, and imo he didnt tell me
because she's Catholic (I found out later).

I said, "Jay" (not his real name) One question sweety,
not twenty, what church does she go to?
He said St such and such.
I said, "what the @#$% were you thinking".
(Subtle and supportive wasnt i?)
:doh:

He said, well she goes to "insert name of emergent
church here" sometimes too.
:cry:

That was yesterday in the AM.
Yes, I know we have to let the kids
make their own choices.
My question is this:
Do I say something?
Is there anything I should,
as a caring parent, say to son?
Is it none of my bi'ness

Or isnt it even an unequal yoking
should it get serious?
(this kid dont date, and is a very
goal oriented person like a "Paul")

Catholics/Protestants etc. What would
you guys do or say in that situation?

Help only please, no judging k?

thanks,
sunlover
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(sorry)
I can't believe you did that!

I wouldn't worry about it so much if I were you.
Count your blessings:
#1 He's apparently heterosexual.
#2 She at least attends a church.
#3 I'm sure he didn't choose her on doctrinal grounds (lol)

I would be supportive of his attempts to explore the responsibilities of relationships.

My father was RC & my mother Protestant (descended from Oliver Cromwell, no less) but neither one had much of a clue about doctrine or history, It was entirely culturaly based, family tradition aquired by osmosis. They had problems getting along but it religion had very little to do with it in my opinion. Most people I've met in churches have had some major differences of opinion with what is preached. This guy RC guy I know will staunchly defnd RCism from loyalty, but is almost entirely ignorant of RC history & doctrine. I was looking at his computer & one of his bookmarked sites is an astrology site. The only RC site he ever visited regularly was a Singles site.
Same thing with my mother-in-law. "Fiercely RC", but the book on the bedstand is an astrology rag.

Try not to judge a person by their denomination. It could be that religion just isn't as important to them as it is to you & me, dear.
:cool:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(sorry)
I can't believe you did that!

I wouldn't worry about it so much if I were you.
Count your blessings:
#1 He's apparently heterosexual.
#2 She at least attends a church.
#3 I'm sure he didn't choose her on doctrinal grounds (lol)

I would be supportive of his attempts to explore the responsibilities of relationships.

My father was RC & my mother Protestant (descended from Oliver Cromwell, no less) but neither one had much of a clue about doctrine or history, It was entirely culturaly based, family tradition aquired by osmosis. They had problems getting along but it religion had very little to do with it in my opinion. Most people I've met in churches have had some major differences of opinion with what is preached. This guy RC guy I know will staunchly defnd RCism from loyalty, but is almost entirely ignorant of RC history & doctrine. I was looking at his computer & one of his bookmarked sites is an astrology site. The only RC site he ever visited regularly was a Singles site.
Same thing with my mother-in-law. "Fiercely RC", but the book on the bedstand is an astrology rag.

Try not to judge a person by their denomination. It could be that religion just isn't as important to them as it is to you & me, dear.
:cool:
Great post! Young couples in life want to really explore life and their relationship but I sometimes get the feeling religion can sometimes actually become a "burden" to those that in their 20's and what is the old adage "marriage can ruin a good friendship", in this case so can "religion". They both know between right and wrong by this time and being fully grown adults, they will have to learn the "hard knocks" of life and grow in Faith as we all did when we were young [I can say that since I am now an "old fart" :D]

Couples should first love and respect each other and that includes each other's faiths and beliefs. Thoughts? :angel:
 
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sunlover1

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And what would you do if you found out all this time her parents were praying that your son became Catholic?
There's nothing that I could do. Besides, doesnt matter what
'they' want, or what "I" want,..
Thy kingdom come,
THY will be done.

Would you be offended?
Heavens no. I'd be surprised if they didnt.
But I continue to desire God's will and as I
said, whatever they do... I'm sure it will
work for the good.

And what if your son went to the Catholic Church and liked it? And (dare I say it) wanted to convert? Would you disown him?
Why would I do that?
My desire is that they are in agreement... period.
Can two walk together without agreeing on the direction?

Kool, it's all about loving Jesus and drawing closer to Him...peace to you...nab
Amen!
Thank you NAB, and it's nice to see you around here a bit.

Yeah, I was excited, because I was hoping some
of my older kids might begin attending church with me.
:clap:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Yeah, I was excited, because I was hoping some
of my older kids might begin attending church with me.
:clap:
Hey Sunshine! How many kids do you have and what are their ages? Would love to see a picture of them :)
 
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sunlover1

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(sorry)
I can't believe you did that!
:blush:
Yeah, I did that.
Sometimes I can freak out a bit.
But YOU try living with all guys

I wouldn't worry about it so much if I were you.
Count your blessings:
#1 He's apparently heterosexual.
#2 She at least attends a church.
#3 I'm sure he didn't choose her on doctrinal grounds (lol)
Good advice (count your blessings) I just doled that same
stuff out earlier today... should practice what I preach.

I would be supportive of his attempts to explore the responsibilities of relationships.

My father was RC & my mother Protestant (descended from Oliver Cromwell, no less) but neither one had much of a clue about doctrine or history, It was entirely culturaly based, family tradition aquired by osmosis. They had problems getting along but it religion had very little to do with it in my opinion. Most people I've met in churches have had some major differences of opinion with what is preached. This guy RC guy I know will staunchly defnd RCism from loyalty, but is almost entirely ignorant of RC history & doctrine. I was looking at his computer & one of his bookmarked sites is an astrology site. The only RC site he ever visited regularly was a Singles site.
Same thing with my mother-in-law. "Fiercely RC", but the book on the bedstand is an astrology rag.
Interesting, when I was catholic, I actually learned how to chart
the positions of the stars at the moment and location of birth, til my
very calvinistic boyfriend (and ex hubby now) explained that that
was a 'sacrilige' And I learned a new word that day too. Bless his heart.

It could be that religion just isn't as important to them as it is to you & me, dear.
:cool:
WEll I raised them better than that, darn it! ;)

...just saw the update.
Very cool.:cool:
Yeah! No need for freaking out, and like you said,
I AM happy that he likes girls. :sorry:
And hey, this girl seems to be a real gem.
I feel so blessed.
:hug:
 
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sunlover1

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[I can say that since I am now an "old fart" :D]
IT's so strange though, because (dont know bout you but) I FEEL the same
as I did when I was 21, but then I look in the mirror and :O
there's me granny looking back at me!

Couples should first love and respect each other and that includes each other's faiths and beliefs. Thoughts?
They should.
The coolest thing about all of this!!! is that he said that he's in love
with his best friend.
Now that, in my opinion, is heaven on earth.

Hey Sunshine! How many kids do you have and what are their ages?
Son 12,
son 13,
son 14 (almost 15 ;) )
son 19,
step daughter 20,
son 21
son 23
DAUGHTER 25
son (the oldest)

3 yo Grandbaby

etu?

Would love to see a picture of them :)
I'll make work of that soon friend
(soon means: give me some time though lol)
:hug:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Son 12,
son 13,
son 14 (almost 15 ;) )
son 19,
step daughter 20,
son 21
son 23
DAUGHTER 25
son (the oldest)

3 yo Grandbaby

etu?
If I had that many I would shoot myself!!!!! :D [J/K]
No seriously, my brother has 5 kids all fully grown and though I view children as a blessing, I always told him "better you than me!".
I have 2 daughters
oldest just turned 33
and the youngest is 26
and there was never a dull moment with the youngest one...EGADS! But I would do it all over again...:)
 
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sunlover1

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:doh: If I had that many I would shoot myself!!!!! :D
No seriously, my brother has 5 kids all fully grown and though I view children as a blessing, I always told him "better you than me!".
I have 2 daughters
oldest just turned 33
and the youngest is 26
and there was never a dull moment with the youngest one...EGADS! But I would do it all over again...:)
Praise God!
The great thing is that they come one at a time.
(at least for me they have) Yeah, never a dull
moment is there?
So you're an empty nester!?

glad to hear that your son and his gf are getting along well, I hope you have a nice time at church with them.
have you gotten a chance to get to know her? is she a good person? does she believe in Jesus or was she just culturaly catholic?
I would really like to get to know her. He's brought her and her darling
toddler over twice is all. He normally goes to her place (she lives home
still too). My son is very picky, so I"m betting she's as neat as she seems.
I cant imagine that she'd have liked my church if she werent serious
about God though. My pastor is sort of deep.

Here's a cute story Rhamiel.
She thought (told my son) that black people were all
baptist, k?
Oh, and her baby is bi racial. (pertains to this story)
So one day, she's showing my son the baby pics of
her daughter and says, Doesnt she look sort of asian?"
My son says, "No she looks half baptist and half catholic"
:p
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I would really like to get to know her. He's brought her and her darling
toddler over twice is all. He normally goes to her place (she lives home
still too). My son is very picky, so I"m betting she's as neat as she seems.
I cant imagine that she'd have liked my church if she werent serious
about God though. My pastor is sort of deep.

Here's a cute story Rhamiel.
She thought (told my son) that black people were all
baptist, k?
Oh, and her baby is bi racial. (pertains to this story)
So one day, she's showing my son the baby pics of
her daughter and says, Doesnt she look sort of asian?"
My son says, "No she looks half baptist and half catholic"
:p
:D I won't even touch that one!!!!!!^_^

Btw, here was a cute little joke concerning "colored folk" :)

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48972884#post48972884
Do you ever wonder...

This was written by a black in Texas . :

When I was born, I was BLACK,
When I grew up, I was BLACK,

When I went in the sun, I stayed BLACK,

When I got cold, I was BLACK,

When I was scared, I was BLACK,

When I was sick, I was BLACK,

And when I die, I'll still be BLACK.

NOW, You 'white' folks....

When you're born, you're PINK,

When you grow-up, you're WHITE,

When you go in the sun, you get RED,

When you're cold, you turn BLUE,

When you're scared, you're YELLOW,

When you get sick, you're GREEN,

When you bruise, you turn PURPLE,

And when you die, you look GRAY.

So who y'all callin'
COLORED [FONT=Times New

 Roman]folks?[/FONT]
 
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lionroar0

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Can two walk together without agreeing on the direction?

TANGENT WARNING!!!!

This reminded of when I was working at this hotel and we had this elderly couple staying there.

They were both standing at the front desk together and decided to go to the hotel restaurant for breakfast.

One went left the other right. Went out completely different doors, then they stood around for a few seconds looking for each other.

Each one thought that the other was with them.

They saw each other and met up with each other and walked to the resturant together. I guess that's a happy ending.:D:D:D

Paece
 
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simonthezealot

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[I can say that since I am now an "old fart" :D]
IT's so strange though, because (dont know bout you but) I FEEL the same
as I did when I was 21, but then I look in the mirror and :O
there's me granny looking back at me!


They should.
The coolest thing about all of this!!! is that he said that he's in love
with his best friend.
Now that, in my opinion, is heaven on earth.


Son 12,
son 13,
son 14 (almost 15 ;) )
son 19,
step daughter 20,
son 21
son 23
DAUGHTER 25
son (the oldest)

3 yo Grandbaby

etu?


I'll make work of that soon friend
(soon means: give me some time though lol)
:hug:
Sun's family...
 

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