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dreadnought

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My name is Tim. I am a King James Bible believing Christian. And mostly just looking for like-minded individuals seeking the Truth. Glad to be apart of a community of open-minded and intelligent people for a change.
Welcome to Christian Forums, Tim.
 
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Pilgrim

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My name is Tim. I am a King James Bible believing Christian. And mostly just looking for like-minded individuals seeking the Truth. Glad to be apart of a community of open-minded and intelligent people for a change.
Tim, Welcome to Christian Forums! There are a lot of "rooms" to explore.
Glad you joined us. Welcome to the family. :wave:
 
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St_Worm2

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My name is Tim. I am a King James Bible believing Christian. And mostly just looking for like-minded individuals seeking the Truth. Glad to be apart of a community of open-minded and intelligent people for a change.
Hi Tim, WELCOME TO CF :wave:

I LOVE the King James :), but I have come to truly appreciate the wealth that we have available to us in our other translations and paraphrases as well :oldthumbsup: (which I believe are most often complimentary to one another and are therefore very helpful as we seek to understand/arrive at God's true/intended meaning of the various verses and passages throughout the Holy Writ .. which is not at all unlike a pastor who paraphrases a verse or passage for us during his sermon to help us understand what it's really saying).

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

--David
 
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fodare

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Thank you for all the loving and warm greetings! I've already come to appreciate the many different minds found on this board.

but I have come to truly appreciate the wealth that we have available to us in our other translations and paraphrases as well

Then I would urge you to do an intense study and prayer to get the Truth regarding modern translations. A good place to start is all modern translations use the Alexandrian manuscripts, the KJV stands alone, literally. The Wescott-Hort stuff changes doctrine, removes passages, creates contradictions and even makes Jesus a liar.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness


This idea cannot exist with multitudes of variations. I would argue it's not scripture if it wasn't inspiration of God, and if God is inspiring people why are they all writing different things? That would be an argument against The Bible, why isn't God consistent? If you consider every single version "inspired by God", that is. I don't think every version is. Which is why I suggest you take the time to figure out, and pray about, which ONE is God's Inspired Perfect Word of God. They can't all be divine.
 
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St_Worm2

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2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness


This idea cannot exist with multitudes of variations. I would argue it's not scripture if it wasn't inspiration of God, and if God is inspiring people why are they all writing different things? That would be an argument against The Bible, why isn't God consistent? If you consider every single version "inspired by God", that is. I don't think every version is. Which is why I suggest you take the time to figure out, and pray about, which ONE is God's Inspired Perfect Word of God. They can't all be divine.
Hi again Fodare, it's interesting that you included 2 Timothy 3:16, because that's one of the verses that I believe is rendered better by the NIV's use of the literal,"All Scripture is God-breathed", instead of "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God".

There are two reasons for this. 1. θεοπνευστος [theopneustos] literally translated is, "God-breathed" and 2. God-breathed is far more descriptive of the meaning that the text is trying to convey about Scripture (IMHO anyway), IOW, that the Bible is literally made up of God's own words.

As a composer, I could say that my latest composition was "inspired" by Brahms or Beethoven (or as a poet, by Shakespeare or Whitman), and you'd understand my meaning immediately, because that's the way we normally understand someone else's "inspiration". Not so with the word of God, as I'm certain you'd agree. In fact, any pastor or theologian/professor worth his salt is going to use the literal translation of θεοπνευστος, "God-breathed", to help their congregation or class discover what the Lord was actually trying to convey to us about the very special nature of the words that we find in the Bible.

I hope that helps you understand where my thinking is about some of this! Also, I've looked into this subject pretty closely over the past couple of decades, and I simply do not come to the same conclusions about the AV that you do.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - the ONLY texts that I believe are wholly inerrant are the Autographs themselves. This also means that I do not believe that God breathed the words of the 1550 Textus Receptus in the ears of Erasmus .. but I still hold the KJV to be the word of God nevertheless :preach:
 
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fodare

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There are two reasons for this. 1. θεοπνευστος [theopneustos] literally translated is, "God-breathed" and 2. God-breathed is far more descriptive of the meaning that the text is trying to convey about Scripture (IMHO anyway), IOW, that the Bible is literally made up of God's own words.

TBH, I would argue that 'inspired' is more clear in what is actually taking place, not 'god-breathed'. But mostly this is ticky-tack, irrelevant and wholly not why I adhere to the idea of 'pick one, they can't all be divine.' God is using these men as sort of like a tool, God isn't physically doing anything, your version actually makes it very material and worldly sounding, imo.

My train of thought, and I'll use your example, as a composer if I say I'm 'inspired to write a symphony' I have a clear idea of what to write. When someone say 'they were inspired by so-and-so' that would imply they are borrowing the same style or formula, you'd expect similar sounds. And if I'm inspired to make a piece of art, I would never, in a million years, consider someone making a copy, changing it with variations, of that same work anything good or respectable, let alone "just another original".

My real concern with 100% of the modern translations, is that they change doctrine and make the Bible contradict itself. Here are two of many, many examples:

Mark 1:1 (KJV), "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."
Mark 1:1 (NIV), "The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God."


The KJV involves the gospel Jesus preached and the NIV is what one believes about Jesus.

Mark 1:2 (KJV), "As it is written in the prophets."
Mark 1:2 (NIV & ESV), "It is written in Isaiah the prophet."


They say Isaiah and then quote Malachi 3:1.

http://www.trustingodamerica.com/NIV.htm

So it's not the language I have a problem with, although after studying Shakespeare I can't help but find the language of anything but the KJV very ugly, it's the fact it literally changes scripture to say different things. You should really, really, look at what the differences are.. if you don't take issue with what many people document is a problem with these modern translations (none of this is even getting into the background of Wescott-Hort, where all the alexandrian manuscripts come from) then you fundamentally don't trust The Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

If you claim everyone is right then you can't use The Bible for any of that. They all say something different!

And none of that is getting into a conversation about these passages:

Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
 

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Theo102

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2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness


This idea cannot exist with multitudes of variations. I would argue it's not scripture if it wasn't inspiration of God, and if God is inspiring people why are they all writing different things? That would be an argument against The Bible, why isn't God consistent?

Hi fodare, and welcome to CF.

The apparent inconsistency is more problematic when you consider that Paul's statement was made before there was any tradition about which texts were canonical and which were not. Also there are doctrinal variations between the Septuagint and the Masoretic, and both are used as Biblical source texts.

In the Old Testament, "God" is usually a translation of Elohim, which is a plural word that is most often used as if it were singular. The identity of this group is not fixed, eg Exodus 3 vs Psalms 82.
 
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