Gravity

[TLK Valentine]

For one ...

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

I see -- so maturity can only be judged by an external source, and in the case of Genesis, that source is God -- sound about right?

 

[morningstar2651]

If you can't fit all of history into a 6015-year timeframe, then I would say some things need to go.

I realize mathematically that the ratio is 1:759,767.25 years; but then, gradualism & uniformitarianism tend to inflate and make our past longer than it is.

If you can't fit all of history into a 6015 year constraint, maybe the problem is that reality doesn't fit inside the constraint...so the constraint is wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok, thank you, I see how could apply that to a person, although it has no relation to maturity and makes no sense to me. A 1 day old clone (to be clear, 1 day old both existentially and physically) of a 30 year old man would be able to do the same tasks as a 30 year old man. No maturity required.

Who said anything about a clone?

And did I just hear you say that a 1 day old man (both existentially and physically) would be able to do the same tasks as a 30 year old man?

Now, what job (or task or whatever you want to call it) would a 6,000 year old planet not be able to do that a 4.56 billion year old one could?

I don't know -- ask a YEC.

 

[AV1611VET]

I see -- so maturity can only be judged by an external source, and in the case of Genesis, that source is God -- sound about right?

Yes.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes.

But doesn't that assume that a person or item has only one use, and that "maturity" is solely a function of whether or not it can perform the one task that has been assigned to it from an external source?

 

[AV1611VET]

But doesn't that assume that a person or item has only one use, and that "maturity" is solely a function of whether or not it can perform the one task that has been assigned to it from an external source?

Adam was bestowed with the task of naming the animals, tending the Garden, getting married and having children, and obeying God.

Adam was mature.

 

[CabVet]

And did I just hear you say that a 1 day old man (both existentially and physically) would be able to do the same tasks as a 30 year old man?

Yes if he was created fully grown with memories and a functioning brain.

I don't know -- ask a YEC.

And that is why I don't buy embedded age.

 

[CabVet]

Adam was bestowed with the task of naming the animals, tending the Garden, getting married and having children, and obeying God.

Adam was mature.

Ok, that required Adam to be mature. What requires the earth to be mature?

 

[AV1611VET]

And here we go, lurkers.

Now, what job (or task or whatever you want to call it) would a 6,000 year old planet not be able to do that a 4.56 billion year old one could?

I don't know -- ask a YEC.

And that is why I don't buy embedded age.

Cab, didn't you just ask me a question only a YEC can answer?

I'm not a YEC, chief; how many times do I have to tell you that?

We do not live on a "6000 year old planet" -- that's what YECs believe.

We live on a 4.57 billion year old planet.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok, that required Adam to be mature. What requires the earth to be mature?

That should be self-evident; but for about the 30th time, I'll let Adam Clarke handle this one.

It appears that God created every thing, not only perfect as it respects its nature, but also in a state of maturity, so that every vegetable production appeared at once in full growth; and this was necessary that man, when he came into being, might find every thing ready for his use.

An earth on its sixth day in existence, containing two mature people, had better have mature trees with ripe fruit, ready to eat.

Else they'll starve to ... they'll go without eating for awhile.

What requires the earth to me mature? the life that was created upon it.

 

[morningstar2651]

If you can't fit all of history into a 6015 year constraint, maybe the problem is that reality doesn't fit inside the constraint...so the constraint is wrong.

This appears to have been missed.

Maybe if reality doesn't fit within the constraints we try to impose upon it, our constraints are incorrect?

 

[CabVet]

That should be self-evident; but for about the 30th time, I'll let Adam Clarke handle this one.

Self-evident, really?

An earth on its sixth day in existence, containing two mature people, had better have mature trees with ripe fruit, ready to eat.

Else they'll starve to ... they'll go without eating for awhile.

What requires the earth to me mature? the life that was created upon it.

Earth's age is neither measured through mature trees nor through its life. Biologically, there is nothing that could have prevented human existence hundreds of millions of years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe if reality doesn't fit within the constraints we try to impose upon it, our constraints are incorrect?

And therein lies the difference between creationism and evolution:

1. Too many events or too much time?
2. Walking by faith or walking by sight?
3. Catastrophism or uniformitarianism?
4. Literal or allegorical Genesis 1?
5. Special revelation or general revelation?
6. Potato/potatto or tomato/tomatto?

 

[morningstar2651]

And therein lies the difference between creationism and evolution:

1. Too many events or too much time?
2. Walking by faith or walking by sight?
3. Catastrophism or uniformitarianism?
4. Literal or allegorical Genesis 1?
5. Special revelation or general revelation?
6. Potato/potatto or tomato/tomatto?

7. Too many irrelevant questions?

 

[Michael]

Biologically, there is nothing that could have prevented human existence hundreds of millions of years ago.

You mean except T-rex?

 

[CabVet]

You mean except T-rex?

Not really, with our intelligence, if T-rex was alive today it would probably be in the endangered species list.

 

[morningstar2651]

You mean except T-rex?

 

[CabVet]

And therein lies the difference between creationism and evolution

There is only one difference: evolution is based on observable and testable evidence, creationism is based on faith.

 

[Michael]

Not really, with our intelligence, if T-rex was alive today it would probably be in the endangered species list.

Probably true. Then again without modern technology (and weapons), I seriously doubt that humans would have survived for very long. Without gunpowder, we'd be toast.

 

[CabVet]

Probably true. Then again without modern technology (and weapons), I seriously doubt that humans would have survived for very long. Without gunpowder, we'd be toast.

What lions, leopards and hyenas lacked in size, they gained in numbers, and we survived just fine...