Grapes in the Early Spring

[HARK!]

Yahshua passed the cup at the last supper. That was in the early Spring. The winter barley had recently ripened. Has anyone here ever seen ripe grapes in the early Spring?

Was the wine in that cup fermented, or unfermented?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would guess fermented but not fortified...

 

[HARK!]

I would guess fermented but not fortified...

it might also be noted that they shared the same cup. I don't believe that there was gluttonous activity going on.

 

[Carl Emerson]

it might also be noted that they shared the same cup. I don't believe that there was gluttonous activity going on.

Yet Jesus supplied about 30 gallons of wine at Canna when the guests were already under the weather somewhat...

 

[HARK!]

Yet Jesus supplied about 30 gallons of wine at Canna when the guests were already under the weather somewhat...

How many people were present; and why do you believe that they were "already under the weather somewhat?"

 

[Carl Emerson]

The numbers are not recorded...

The Master commented that usually the best wine is served first - not later when the guests are past the ability to tell what is a good wine...

 

[HARK!]

The numbers are not recorded...

So for all we know there may have been thousands there.

The Master commented that usually the best wine is served first - not later when the guests are past the ability to tell what is a good wine...

Alcohol is an anesthetic. It affects nerves in the tongue; and while it is being swallowed, vapors reach the olfactory nerves, which play a major role in discerning taste. One doesn't have to be intoxicated to have his ability to taste, diminished by alcohol.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, but this condition would indicate a degree of inebriation? yes?

 

[Der Alte]

I don't know how many people were at the wedding but Jesus commanded them to fill 6 stone jars with water, each holding 20-30 gallons. Seems like a fairly large crowd to me.
The Greek word translated "well drunk" does not mean simply to drink a large amount it literally means "intoxicated."

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The miracle of cana is not that Jesus turned water into grape juice but fermented wine which takes much time to manufacture. And it was much better than the wine that was being served and was gone because the guests drank it all.

 

[Mr. M]

it might also be noted that they shared the same cup. I don't believe that there was gluttonous activity going on.

Just enough to make them sleepy...
Matthew 26:40. Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter,
“What! Could you not watch with Me one hour?

 

[HARK!]

Yes, but this condition would indicate a degree of inebriation? yes?

That depends on your definition of inebriation.

Is one inebriated, if putting on aftershave has mildly affected his sense of taste?

I would say no.

I don't believe that Yahshua was throwing wild drinking parties.

 

[Mr. M]

Yet Jesus supplied about 30 gallons of wine at Canna when the guests were already under the weather somewhat...

Why wouldn't some of the guests at a wedding reception be somewhat inebriated?
Are we comparing a wedding celebration to the solemnity of the last supper?
Isn't the sharing of the Cup prophetic of the coming fellowship of the Holy Spirit?
A wedding reception is more prophetic of something to come!

 

[HARK!]

The Greek word translated "well drunk" does not mean simply to drink a large amount it literally means "intoxicated."

Can you prove that?

Even if you can; what does it prove; that Elohim provides food, even for gluttons?

 

[Mr. M]

Those who minister to the Lord and Nazarites, must abstain.
Leviticus 10:9, 10. Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, that you may distinguish between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean.

Numbers 6:3. he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar
made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat
fresh grapes or raisins.

 

[Mr. M]

I don't know how many people were at the wedding but Jesus commanded them to fill 6 stone jars with water, each holding 20-30 gallons. Seems like a fairly large crowd to me.
The Greek word translated "well drunk" does not mean simply to drink a large amount it literally means "intoxicated."

"Knowing when to say 'when'', since Noah departed the Ark.
Genesis 5:29. And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning
our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

Genesis 9:
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

This is from the Spirit of the Lord.
Psalm 104:
14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man:
that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine,
and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

 

[Scott Husted]

That depends on your definition of inebriation.

Is one inebriated, if putting on aftershave has mildly affected his sense of taste?

I would say no.

I don't believe that Yahshua was throwing wild drinking parties.

This had more to do with a marriage then whether people were drunk at it, just as the wine has more to do with blood then the wine the water was turned into. The scenario that played itself out including the events that led him to this all fall under the heading of the purpose God purposed in himself.

 

[Der Alte]

Can you prove that?
Even if you can; what does it prove; that Elohim provides food, even for gluttons?

Absolutely! I never say anything I can't back up. I studied Greek and Hebrew at the graduate level more than 3 decades ago. What would satisfy you? How about the definition of the word from Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Hebrew Lexicon?

μεθύω (μέθυ ‘wine’; Hom. et al.; PHal 1, 193f; PGM 7, 180 πολλὰ πίνειν καὶ μὴ μεθύειν, al. in pap; LXX, Test12Patr; Philo; Jos., Bell. 6, 196, Vi. 225; 388; Just., D. 14, 6) to drink to a point of intoxication, be drunk Ac 2:15; Ox 1 verso, 15 (ASyn. 240, 40; cp. GTh 28; Unknown Sayings 69–74). Opp. πεινᾶν 1 Cor 11:21. οἱ μεθυσκόμενοι νυκτὸς μεθύουσιν those who get drunk are drunk at night 1 Th 5:7. οἱ μεθύοντες those who are drunken (Diod S 4, 5, 3; Cornutus 30 p. 61, 6; Job 12:25) Mt 24:49.—In imagery (X., Symp. 8, 21; Pla., Lysias 222c; Philostrat., Vi. Soph. 2, 1, 2 πλούτῳ μ.; Achilles Tat. 1, 6, 1 ἔρωτι; OdeSol 11:6 ὕδωρ τὸ ἀθάνατον; Philo) of the apocal. woman who has sated her thirst for blood (sim. in hue to wine) εἶδον τὴν γυναῖκα μεθύουσαν ἐκ τ. αἵματος τ. ἁγίων Rv 17:6.—DELG s.v. μέθυ. M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 626). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

The Jewish custom was and is to serve wine at weddings. Jesus provided the wine He did not force anyone to drink.

 

[Der Alte]

The miracle of cana is not that Jesus turned water into grape juice but fermented wine which takes much time to manufacture. And it was much better than the wine that was being served and was gone because the guests drank it all.

Another point to consider is, how much grape juice does someone have to drink before they know the difference between "good grape juice" and "not so good grape juice?"

John 2:10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." ​

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why wouldn't some of the guests at a wedding reception be somewhat inebriated?
Are we comparing a wedding celebration to the solemnity of the last supper?
Isn't the sharing of the Cup prophetic of the coming fellowship of the Holy Spirit?
A wedding reception is more prophetic of something to come!

I think we can be over symbolise occcasions - If we stick to the plain reading of the Greek the guests were not sober.