grafted in...

[bugkiller]

You folks have been listening to sinners instaed of reading scripture:-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The law is Jesus' law of love and sin is UNLOVING ... you break Jesus' law by not departing from sinning... Jesus is not lord of sinners, Satan is :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;

You cannot learn the truth from sinners, so why try , they follow Satan , master of lies...

you have what the saints say above... why do you not believe them instead of sinners' twistings of scripture ?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Yep we do and that includes you. Unless of course the Bible doesn't include you in All have sinned and come short...

bugkiller

 

[stranger]

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

without the law of love there would be no sin, so obviously the power of sin is the law of God, of love

if one did not KNOW to love then one would not FEEL guilty when one sins, but one does... Adama brought us the knowledge of good and evil by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil , so we are not INNOCENT, we know when we sin that it is wrong, that it is unloving, that it is not acceptable to God

 

[stranger]

The KEY then is ceasing to sin as even the wicked are forgiven when they stop sinning and become righteous :-

Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[Rainie]

Hi!

As far as Sinai goes, that is why it was abolished, or we would be transgressors.

Why didn't paul want what was destoryed, reinstated?

Answer: Because if you reinstate the old system, then we are transgressors.

18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

Don't forget out little history lesson, Peter called the law a yoke, the fathers could not bear, nor Peter..he said.."nor us'. Acts 15.

Frogster,

What is SIN?

In Him- Rain

 

[Rainie]

Nice to see you back. Did you have a great summer?

bugkiller

Yep! Thanks! Hope yours was good too!

 

[Frogster]

Frogster,

What is SIN?

In Him- Rain

Something that lives in the Adamic creation, that we were raised out of. Paulk said it was in his members. He said it was not him. Hence, the old creation. See verse 20 also.

17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Ok, now my turn. Lets finish old business.

Why did Peter, give us a historical account, the the law was a yoke for him, and the fathers?

And why did Paul said it would be a yoke of bondage for the saved galatians to live under?

That covers far past, semi past, and present.

 

[stranger]

Something that lives in the Adamic creation, that we were raised out of. Paulk said it was in his members. He said it was not him. Hence, the old creation. See verse 20 also.

17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Sin is breaking God's and Jesus' law of lovingness

sin is not loving ...

sin is disobedience to Jesus, so he is not one's lord

the lord of all sinners is Satan :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

One can then only follow Jesus by stopping sinning ... then one's past sins are forgiven, but only when one stops... almost all folks continue to sin all this life and are destroyed in the end of the earth Matt 7:13 but a few stop sinning and it is they who minister to the many when it is their turn to be saved later [Rev 7:9-10]

few saints now , many sinners... later countless many saints saved at judgement day , not because they were saints now, but because they stopped sinning and were righteous in the new earth after the second resurrection [of the unjust of this earth]

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[bugkiller]

Sin is breaking God's and Jesus' law of lovingness

sin is not loving ...

sin is disobedience to Jesus, so he is not one's lord

the lord of all sinners is Satan :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

One can then only follow Jesus by stopping sinning ... then one's past sins are forgiven, but only when one stops... almost all folks continue to sin all this life and are destroyed in the end of the earth Matt 7:13 but a few stop sinning and it is they who minister to the many when it is their turn to be saved later [Rev 7:9-10]

few saints now , many sinners... later countless many saints saved at judgement day , not because they were saints now, but because they stopped sinning and were righteous in the new earth after the second resurrection [of the unjust of this earth]

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So how does one stop sinning? Apparently it appears tha you so claim. I brought up I John 1:9 as being a provision for the saints who do sin.

bugkiller

 

[Rainie]

Something that lives in the Adamic creation, that we were raised out of. Paulk said it was in his members. He said it was not him. Hence, the old creation. See verse 20 also.

17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Ok, now my turn. Lets finish old business.

Why did Peter, give us a historical account, the the law was a yoke for him, and the fathers?

And why did Paul said it would be a yoke of bondage for the saved galatians to live under?

That covers far past, semi past, and present.

Frogster,

Jesus is THE WORD made flesh.

(John 1)



Jesus kept the LAW/TORAH perfectly and TAUGHT HIS entire ministry from those Scriptures (Matt, Mark, Luke, John).

Jesus followed the LAW 100%, without blemish, without blame, without spot, without fail (1 Peter 1, Hebrews 9 etc.).

Jesus defeated Satan in Matthew 4 by quoting Deuteronomy (THE LAW/TORAH).

Jesus taught His disciples and the crowds who came to see and hear Him directly from the Old Testament! (Matt, Mark, Luke, John)

Jesus Himself says that if we love Him we will keep HIS COMMANDS just as HE has kept the COMMANDS OF THE FATHER (John 14 & 15).

Jesus tells us that His yoke is easy and light and to learn from Him (Matt 11)

Jesus is the CREATOR, the AUTHOR, and the GIVER of the Law (Colossians 1 and John 1 etc).

Jesus NEVER once taught against the Law, Jesus NEVER once violated the Law... and we are to "walk as He walked." We are supposed to allow Him to work freely to do as He pleases, in and through us, thus accomplishing the WILL OF GOD.

He is supposed to REIGN over us as LORD. Our ways as men, are not HIS ways as GOD.


Jesus NEVER taught Law abolishment... NEVER .


Here are the Master's parting words to us take them or leave them, your choice:
New King James Version

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


In Him- Rain



I will ask again...
Can anyone here reconcile the LAW ABOLISHMENT DOCTRINE with Jesus' own Ministry? (Scripture Please?)

 

[stranger]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
...
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[Steve Petersen]

I think it is possible that grafting in may actually refer to Abraham rather than Israel.

There is this interesting quote from the Talmud, Yevamoth 63a:

R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the text, And in thee shall the families of the earth be blessed? The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Abraham, 'I have two goodly shoots to engraft on you: Ruth the Moabitess and Naamah the Ammonitess'. All the families of the earth, even the other families who live on the earth are blessed only for Israel's sake. All the nations of the earth, even the ships that go from Gaul to Spain are blessed only for Israel's sake.

 

[Frogster]

Frogster,

Jesus is THE WORD made flesh.

(John 1)



Jesus kept the LAW/TORAH perfectly and TAUGHT HIS entire ministry from those Scriptures (Matt, Mark, Luke, John).

Jesus followed the LAW 100%, without blemish, without blame, without spot, without fail (1 Peter 1, Hebrews 9 etc.).

Jesus defeated Satan in Matthew 4 by quoting Deuteronomy (THE LAW/TORAH).

Jesus taught His disciples and the crowds who came to see and hear Him directly from the Old Testament! (Matt, Mark, Luke, John)

Jesus Himself says that if we love Him we will keep HIS COMMANDS just as HE has kept the COMMANDS OF THE FATHER (John 14 & 15).

Jesus tells us that His yoke is easy and light and to learn from Him (Matt 11)

Jesus is the CREATOR, the AUTHOR, and the GIVER of the Law (Colossians 1 and John 1 etc).

Jesus NEVER once taught against the Law, Jesus NEVER once violated the Law... and we are to "walk as He walked." We are supposed to allow Him to work freely to do as He pleases, in and through us, thus accomplishing the WILL OF GOD.

He is supposed to REIGN over us as LORD. Our ways as men, are not HIS ways as GOD.


Jesus NEVER taught Law abolishment... NEVER .


Here are the Master's parting words to us take them or leave them, your choice:
New King James Version

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


In Him- Rain



I will ask again...
Can anyone here reconcile the LAW ABOLISHMENT DOCTRINE with Jesus' own Ministry? (Scripture Please?)

waaaaait a minute!
I answered your question yet you did not answer mine. Anyone can fill a page, but you did not answer.

Why did Peter give an historical account as the law being a burden to the fathers, and to Peter also, and Paul said it was bondage for the Galatians in their present reality? Why?

Please just give me a loooong awaited clear answer. Thanks!

 

[SGM4HIM]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
...
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Good scriptures as long as we realize Jesus' ministry is not limited to the 3 yrs of his earthly walk...

 

[stranger]

Good scriptures as long as we realize Jesus' ministry is not limited to the 3 yrs of his earthly walk...

signifying ?

 

[SGM4HIM]

signifying ?

Salvation was extended to Gentiles.

 

[Frogster]

What then are you saying? Are you saying that only physical decendents of Jacob (Israel) can be saved currently? I asked you about Peter's testimony and Acts 15. Both show that the NC extends to Gentiles. While Jer 31 and Heb 8 both name the House of Judah and the House of Israel, it does not exclude others. Both say the NC will not be like the OC. Even under the law a Gentile could convert to the covenant via circumsision. Thus could be included in the covenant made with their fathers. Why is it different in the NC? The rules of inclusion are different. Even Frogster showed you had to have the faith of a Gentile. Abraham was never an Israelite or Jew. The covenant made with Israel at Sinai was not made with Abraham Deut 5:2-5.

Did you not make this statement: Note the underlined word 'their' , showing that the new covenant is with those whose fathers broke the old covenant. here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7232385-8/#post55753258? See above comment. This immediate statement above says to me that you are not a Christian but a Jew presenting an argument that no Gentiles can be saved. I have been told before on this board that was a goal of someone presenting themselves as you do to turn me to the law away from Jesus Christ. Gal 5:4 says one can not have both.What say you? Then Paul is wrong (thus lying) and not inspired when he said there is no Jew in Christ Jesus - Gal 3:28.I don't think so. It is my summary of what you said. You completely exclude the Gentile from the NC. I asked you about Peter's interaction with the Gentiles and his testimony in Acts 15. You seem to ignore both as I did not see any comment on either. Why? Does it get in the way of your idea that you seek to prove?I simply can not agree with your thesis here concerning the Gentiles. It seems that you say none of them can possibly be saved/redeemed/or secure eternal life. That simply does not fit with scripture. My Bible says whosoever will not the Israelite that will.

bugkiller

 

[Criada]

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[Frogster]

Really salvation was announced to Gentile Abraham, all nations.

 

[stranger]

Jesus' truth in the bible will prove true in the end

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 

[Rainie]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
...
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Awesome. Scripture is very clear!