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Rainie

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waaaaait a minute!
I answered your question yet you did not answer mine. Anyone can fill a page, but you did not answer.

Why did Peter give an historical account as the law being a burden to the fathers, and to Peter also, and Paul said it was bondage for the Galatians in their present reality? Why?

Please just give me a loooong awaited clear answer. Thanks! :wave:


You have changed the subject, I enetered this conversation on September 20th 2010 and asked 1 simple question:

"Can anyone here reconcile Jesus' (apparent) teachings on Law abolishment, freedom from keeping the Law... with His PERFECT, SIN-FREE, SPOTLESSNESS as Our Messiah?"

Then you changed the subject.

Do you have an answer?

In Him- Rain
 
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Rainie

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Jesus' truth in the bible will prove true in the end

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


Amen!
 
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Frogster

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You have changed the subject, I enetered this conversation on September 20th 2010 and asked 1 simple question:

"Can anyone here reconcile Jesus' (apparent) teachings on Law abolishment, freedom from keeping the Law... with His PERFECT, SIN-FREE, SPOTLESSNESS as Our Messiah?"

Then you changed the subject.

Do you have an answer?

In Him- Rain

Sorry ole friend, go reread the thread, I asked you for countless times, why Peter made an historical statement, the the law was a yoke the fathers, nor those present at the meeting could not bear. Then you left for awhile.:) I understand, we have other things in life. But really, that is how we left off, I am suprised you do not remember, no big deal though, just sayin..

Not to mention Paul called it bondage in his past, and called it bondage for the Galatians in their present mode. That covers the whole history. NO?
 
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bugkiller

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You have changed the subject, I enetered this conversation on September 20th 2010 and asked 1 simple question:

"Can anyone here reconcile Jesus' (apparent) teachings on Law abolishment, freedom from keeping the Law... with His PERFECT, SIN-FREE, SPOTLESSNESS as Our Messiah?"

Then you changed the subject.

Do you have an answer?

In Him- Rain
I did so before your summer vacation. If you like, I can refresh your memory. And I don't even need Paul to do so.

bugkiller
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stranger

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The scripture is not for interpretation, there is only one line possible for the truth, consistent with all original scripture ...

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Why would anyone who says they believe in scripture not follow it all as one truth of God, inviolate love of all men ?
 
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bugkiller

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The scripture is not for interpretation, there is only one line possible for the truth, consistent with all original scripture ...

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Why would anyone who says they believe in scripture not follow it all as one truth of God, inviolate love of all men ?
I personally question everything from someone who says that the Law saved God aka Jesus.

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stranger

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I personally question everything from someone who says that the Law saved God aka Jesus.

bugkiller
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I simply repeated what follows from scripture...

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus fulfilled the law , did not destroy it ...
 
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Frogster

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I simply repeated what follows from scripture...

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus fulfilled the law , did not destroy it ...

Law and the prophets was wordage to mean the whole of the OT.

Jesus however did fulfill moses.


44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

If you do not wish to dicuss the FULFILLED word, the we need not continue.
 
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bugkiller

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I simply repeated what follows from scripture...

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus fulfilled the law , did not destroy it ...
Yes that is very correct. A fulfilled contract is complete and has no other use except historical. A fulfilled contract has no further obligation to either party.

What you are failing to note is that Jesus said the NC is in existenace by these words - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mat 26:28. What NC covenant do you supposed Jesus was talking about? The only one I read about during the time of Jesus is found in Jer 31:31-34. Do you have another new covenant in mind? It is OK if you give the perdictable answer, I have a rebutal in mind.

bugkiller
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bugkiller

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Law and the prophets was wordage to mean the whole of the OT.

Jesus however did fulfill moses.


44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

If you do not wish to dicuss the FULFILLED word, the we need not continue.
I just want to emphasize the blue highlighted and especially the bolded and underlined part.

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stranger

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Yes that is very correct. A fulfilled contract is complete and has no other use except historical. A fulfilled contract has no further obligation to either party.

What you are failing to note is that Jesus said the NC is in existenace by these words - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mat 26:28. What NC covenant do you supposed Jesus was talking about? The only one I read about during the time of Jesus is found in Jer 31:31-34. Do you have another new covenant in mind? It is OK if you give the perdictable answer, I have a rebutal in mind.

bugkiller
927154.gif

I think you missed the question that was being answered ... that Jesus was redeemed by fulfilling the old covenant ...

I was not questioning that the unconditional new covenant provides unmerited forgiveness to those whose fathers broke the old covenant and is thus a free ticket for the remnant of the House of Israel and the House of Judah to know all truth from God Himself [John 16:13] and thus defeat all Satan's wiles and thus stop sinning, become saints in this life, so that they become priest-kings of the new covenant to serve billions of gentiles in the mass resurrection of sinners and their salvation later ,in the kingdom come in the new earth...

The new covenant is without conditions so obviously is easier than the old one, but that does not mena that the old one is no longer valid... the fact is though that very few were saved by the old covenant and God even says Israel will break it long before they agreed to it...
So the old covenant was simply to prove that men cannot save their own souls even if given a list f things to do to save themselves, but only once the spirit of God teaches men the truth so that they can defeat Satan with truth of love when tempted [as Jesus did]

So it would help if you read the thread ...
 
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bugkiller

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I think you missed the question that was being answered ... that Jesus was redeemed by fulfilling the old covenant ...
Jesus (God) has never been redeemed from or by anything. There was no violation on His part.
I was not questioning that the unconditional new covenant provides unmerited forgiveness to those whose fathers broke the old covenant and is thus a free ticket for the remnant of the House of Israel and the House of Judah to know all truth from God Himself [John 16:13] and thus defeat all Satan's wiles and thus stop sinning, become saints in this life, so that they become priest-kings of the new covenant to serve billions of gentiles in the mass resurrection of sinners and their salvation later ,in the kingdom come in the new earth...
If Jesus violated the any of the law He could not be the Messiah or our Saviour. He would have not been a spotless lamb without imperfection (includes sin). Since there was no sin Jesus met all the requirements of the law and need no saviour/redeemer.
The new covenant is without conditions so obviously is easier than the old one, but that does not mena that the old one is no longer valid... the fact is though that very few were saved by the old covenant and God even says Israel will break it long before they agreed to it...
So I need you to explain how a superceded law has any jurisdiction or validity. New does not mean the old is still valid in any law anywhere.
So the old covenant was simply to prove that men cannot save their own souls even if given a list f things to do to save themselves, but only once the spirit of God teaches men the truth so that they can defeat Satan with truth of love when tempted [as Jesus did]
Now wait a minute there. You just said that Jesus was redeemed by obedience to the law. This means that Jesus was redeemed by His own effort as if God needed to be redeemed. What was Jesus (God) redeemed from? He had no sin. I read the purpose of the law stated in Romans 11:32 - that God might have mercy on all.
So it would help if you read the thread ...
Huh? I am current in this thread.

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stranger

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Redemption is by translation to spirit ... Jesus did need to be translated to spirit eventually... he never died a second death after resurrection to the [mortal] flesh...

I have no idea why you think one has to break the law in order to keep it ... that Jesus kept the law does not in any way indicate that he must have broken it at any time...

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

I really am bemused that folks who remain sinners, breaking Jesus' and God's law of love , hear about Jesus and think they do not have to do the law, but can remain sinners and Jesus will just 'rapture' them away from the wages of their continuing sin...
Jesus indeed takes away the sin of the world, but he never said he excuses it unless one stops sinning and becomes a saint... all the 144,000 are saints, not sinners , those who keep God's law of love... the old covenant was not unloving , just not very effective in numbers of folks who kept it [just as God said would be the case]

And sure God rejected Israel because they broke the covenant, but the new covenant states it is with those whose fathers broke the old one, a replacement covenant for the House fo Israel and the House of Judah... so there is nothing unloving about the old covenant , and indeed Jesus repeats and verifies all the ten commandments and keeps holy sabbaths because they are memorials to the future of God's plan of salvation of all creation ... passover he fulfils as the sacrificed Lamb of God, but still keeps it as his annual memorial with any that are worthy of him [the saints, not sinners]

Truly the law of God hasn't changed, but God does require a few of the children of Israel to be the priests and kings who minister to billions in the kingdom , so He shows that love has the power to overwhelm the desire to sin [be unloving] with His unconditional covenant with the few saints of this world , simply fulgfilling His promise that the Messiah [Christ, anointed king] will unite the children of Israel , descendants of the House of Judah and the lost House of Israel into a nation of priests :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

The scripture is not wisely re-interpretted ... the meaning of the Messiah is clear in the OT and NT, and the new covenant is simply God restating that His prophecy will come true depite that Israel was rejected , and now they are forgiven for His sake [not theirs] , so God's prophecy will come true despite Israel [and despite anti-Semitic twisting of scripture and despite apostasy of Judaism... even despite Satan getting the whole world apart from the few saints to worship him in eventually united mass religion , the corruption of which is already more than apparent in today's mass religions , just compare them to scripture and note their division -Rev 13:3-10]

If one listens to sinners one will never see this... if one studies the words of the saints and prophets and Jesus and ignores religion, then it is obvious...

so perhaps start by reading the new covannat, and then looking at who the House fo Israel were, why they disappeared, why they never accepted Judaism, never became Jews, and yet God forgives them unconditionally in their new covanant with Him FOR HIS SAKE ... because of His promise that cannot be broken ...

then you will see why FEW find the narrow way in this life and the MANY are destroyed [Matt 7:13-14] , and yet although Jesus only takes the few , countless MANY who were destroyed with this earth's destruction are resurrected to the new earth and saved later [Rev 7:9-10] , all are resurrected from hell [hades] [Revelation 20:13] and know nothing of death [Ecclesiastes 9:5] but some are trialled until the 'age of the ages' [end of time, not 'ever and ever' , for there is a beginning and an end] for not accepting God's word about love... some have to find out for themselves the hard way that unlovingness, sin, is an unworkable way to live .. some do not find that until God has removed all the easy prey that sinners live off in this world... God's mercy though extends for all time as He states, it does not end in this life as sinners [paradoxically] teach in religion ...condemning themselves not to be taken by Jesus by their own beliefs :-

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy,
that hath shewed no mercy;
and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Sinners will never believe it yet, but judgment is only God's way of deciding who is ready, as tried and tested saints, for translation, and who needs further persuasion ... bizarrely most sinneres think folks are pre-judged in this earth, even before God says he will judge the many [at judgement day, not now] ... more bizarrely religious sinners think others who may sin even less than them , will be somehow tormented beyond the end of time for sin, whereas their divided religion contrary to scripture will save them without them even stopping sinning in life... something scripture says explicitly many times is not going to happen , sin is unloving, God requires one to learn to love in life and have one's love of all tried in life , that is the trial of faith , not the test sinners make of whether one can believe their diverse lies about God and love...
 
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