Grace etc

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

On a side note. Earlier I started this thread asking questions of Grace, Liberty, Boundaries. While reading a classic book today, I stumbled across this quote regarding the nature of Freedom;

"The Nation has not yet found peace from its sins; the freedman has not yet found in freedom his promised land. Whatever of good may have come in these years of change, the shadow of a deep disappointment rests upon the... people, -- a disappointment all the more bitter because the unattained ideal was unbounded save by the simple ignorance of a lowly people."

I have removed the word "negro" from the quote, because for me it stands as a testimony for all of us. The book is not just about "The Souls of Black Folk", but about all of us. (there's one reason why my CF person has always been brown, Rick) At least, I relate to it in that manner.

Make of the quote what you may. But we were all slavs, and will continue to choose slavery when we think we choose Freedom. We are looking for our promised land, and freedom is a dangerous and disappointing journey, whose end result lies in Consequence (good or bad) and Responisbility.

"Freedom is a road seldom travelled by the multitude."
- the Bar Kays.

Does that quote sound familiar to anyone?

-----> Flan is moving out and up. This thread might get messy. Seats in upright position.

 

[hairettic]

fasten your seatbelts.

 

[hairettic]

and watch who you call hairy!

 

[HephzibahBenJudah]

grace occurs 170 times in 159 verses

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[kwanseemun]

well, I haven't gone through the whole 7 pages, but that OP was great, some points that I really needed to hear, and some points that affirmed some of the stuff I've been thinking lately...thanks for sharing!

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Sweet. NP.

 

[Multi-Elis]

Flan, I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by transparancy.

In my mind it means being honest with your peers about who you are and what you feel and what you are going through. But as I see it, I am a person who sometimes says too much to too many people. So I need to make the closeness of people to me, the determaning factor for how much of my definition of transparancy I show.

Actually, I did have an idea once for "transparancy" with beggers: There is a certain train I take every saturday where I meet a minimum of 5 beggers. They are always so depolring. (The worst are those who act like it's their right, though it might be) I was thinking: what if someone taking this train were to pull out all his or her change to one of these beggers and say: "this is all I have with me: You can take whatever you want, knowing that this is all the change I have for the rest of the day, and that there are 4 beggers in the train behind you. Have your pick". Mean trick.

So anyway, explain this issue of transparancy please.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Multi, I am not avoiding your questions, but I would like to instead share something from tonight.

It amazes me how the tale of Grace opens people up, whoever they are and no matter how successful. I talked tonight to a girl whose father runs a big prison. She is successfull and attractive and so on, but a simple story of forgiveness and grace opens all doors. It's amazing. It equalises us all.

Its like some advice I gave just now, a friend wanted to reply to a text but avoid the usual text-fighting that would ensue, so I suggested this; say sorry and admit you are wrong. No one can respond in any way other than appropriately to such a thing. And this is just like grace. It comes alongside the begger and says "sorry, i am wrong" to which no one can respond harshly.

Theres a few dudes sat out on the street when I wander home. I'm usually rushing back to my kids that late at night, but here's what I plan to do and I invite any of you to beat me to it.

So here it is;

Walk up the the homeles person whose outside a kwikimart and say "can I get you a beer", go in and buy 4, hand 2 to him and sit next to him and drink with him.

I'll give myself a week - depending on babysitters - I challenge any of you to do it first and tell us what happened.

Church is lived through such actions, maybe

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

grace occurs 170 times in 159 verses

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Is that in the whole Bible, or just in Romans?

I'm interested, not being fasicious.

 

[Multi-Elis]

I just wanted to share the following excerpt from Jung's biography:
(My translation from a french translation of the original german)

"One must also take errors for what they are. Without them, life wouldn't be complete. Nothing garanties for us--at any given moment--that we won't fall into error, or that we won't come into mortal danger. We think there exists perhaps a sûre and certain path. However this path is the path of dead people. Nothing happens, and definately nothing can happen that is right."

"...it is important to accept one's destiny. That way there is something in me that doesn't flinch in the face of the incomprehensible....thus a defeat can be at the same time a victory. Nothing is troubled, neither on the inside or the outside, because our contenuity resists to the flow of life and time. But this cannot happen if our thinking forbids destiny to manifest its intentions."

Any way, what struck me is that the path where everything is certian, is the path where nothing happens. And the path where there is uncertainty can have things go both very wrong, and very right.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Now that deserves some reflection time. I will respond in kind later. Bless you, Multi.

The safe path is death. Plain and simple. I like that.
So why, as a Samurai do I consider myself dead? Why are we asked to lay down our lives for Jesus?
Because by doing so we reject the "safe path" and follow the winding Narrow path.

Thanks again, Multi. Very thought provoking.
Any other comments from anyone would be helpful

 

[Multi-Elis]

Well, here is where difining terms is important, and I wish Jung would do it.

But the way I see it, the safe path is like those people who seek to have the most stable job with a steady income all there life, even if the job is boring and doesn't satisfy them. And the Path where you are in danger of going bankrupt and becoming a homeless, is also the only path where just the opposite can happen. Or let's put it this way: The safe path is the servant who had one talent of gold and he went and buried it, (it's safer there) and the other path is risking loosing all 5 talents, but also the only way to risk doubling those 5 talents.

When you say you are the Samouraï and that you consider your self dead, I take that to mean that you accept destany, and detach yourself from everything that isn't essential. You detach yourself from the path of sureness. So you are in the path of danger where anything can happen, but at least grace can happen...

Well that's how I understood Jung. And it helped me because I'm still feeling bad about having turned down a part in a chrismas musical, I just feel that God should have stopped me from turing it down. But then reading this passage by Jung I say to myself that it was my error to turn it down, but then the fact that I can commit such errors is part of the equasion for why I can be offered such oppertunities.

I don't know if it makes sense, but it comforts me a little, and helps me be a little bit optimistic, and helps me be a little less mad at God for letting me make a mistake.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

There is something powerful in responsibility.

Admitting our mistakes is one thing, taking responsibilty for them and their consequences is a higher thing.

I have made a choice in my life recently, and it amazes me how every day I am reasessing if I have done the right thing. In the matters of my heart, I feel it to be correct, and am growing, but in matters of logic and "need" it seems the most painful and awkward of lifestlye choices. But, be as it may, these are still my choices and it is good to finally feel like I am making choices - rightly or wrongly - with some actual awareness and concern for how it affects others and myself.

Ironically, it seems to me that the most responsible of choices I can make are those whose consequences I can predict, but whose details I cannot control. Responsibility is often replaced by our need to control. Well, it is for me. As if feeling in control is like an addicts version of responsibility - all the high, none of the pain. Responsibility is a harsh and disarming action that strips us of fantasies and allows us to realise what life can truly be like.

Life is hard and horrible and messy. But it is mine and I live it to the best of my ability and concience. So, come what may, I can say that I am living at last and that here is shy true Joy is found, amidst the pain.

It takes a gifted person to see the choices, a resolved person to make the choice and a powerful person to own that choice, no matter the outcome.

Gift, resolve and strength. Possible only by Grace.

 

[Multi-Elis]

So right now you are feeling that life is very difficult for you? (I'm trying to read the answer to my question of whether you are ajusting.)

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Ah yes, adjusting indeed. Life has always been difficult, my friend. Now difficulties are acknowledged and put into perspective.

Fear is the mind killer, after all.

Hows yer life, Multi? Without getting too personal

 

[Gukkor]

A samurai shuns fear. Fear is replaced with a healthy respect and caution in life. Where fear paralyzes, respect and caution free the mind to decide on a proper course of action to meet life's obstacles.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Tru Gukky, tru.

When A Samurai faces their fear, they become resolved. To face a fear is to deny it any power whatsoever. For we see it for what it is.

In this way, fear is not unlike fantasy. When we face our fantasies, we see a deeper reality, which is more fantastic and fullfilling.

 

[hairettic]

I am not samuri...
facing my fears involves way more than that. escaping reality, now that I can do!

 

[Multi-Elis]

Hows yer life, Multi? Without getting too personal

It's a difficult thing to talk about one's easy life in front of somebody whose life is very hard. Therefore I bow with respect and seek to listen to people whose life is harder, and listen to see how they overcome.
To be more specific, tuesday I decided to be more positive, and I've been blown away all week by surprise.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

To be more specific, tuesday I decided to be more positive, and I've been blown away all week by surprise.

Now there is a testimony of Grace!

Nice one, Mutli-pass! (5th Element anyone?)

Tru Hairy, escapism has its place. As long as we recognise fantasies are simply our minds way of attaching signifcance to an event, action or perso i order to overcome a mor immediate threat, scenario or even just thought-process, it's safe.

But, truss me (Tryintobe will back this up) when you release yer fantaies, like with fear, and allow them to pass over you and through you will look back at them and see how tiny they are in the distance. Then you turn back to face front and are blown away by the relity beyond your fantasy or fear.

Contrary to common logic, I believe that Fantasies and Fears are our brains mechanisms for getting us to a certai point in our personality. When we reach that point, we can drop our fantasy and fear and see the deeper, more beautiful/painfull reality beyond.

I'm off to the beach tonight to walk with Tryingtobe, hopefully, so on my there or back I'l try and fit in a quick beer with the guy sat outside the KwikiMart.

Grace in all things. It is grace that allows us to face our fears and fantasies and realise how limiting they were!