Grace etc

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

So, didnt catch up with the homeless last night, too cold for them. I caught a church meeting (flapjacks, emails and coffee) then took off to the beach, met up with Tryinghard for a walk and talk. Orion was out. Beautifull.

So, Church continues here. Relational. Some of our number have expressed a need to meet in larger groups. They express a lack, they feel that they cannot disciple and be accountable and serve the poor and stuff without some kinda small meeting for context. some of us feel diffrently. Those like me look at them and think "what have u been doing for 2 years since we exploded our church structure?". I see their vulnerability in this and accept their need, but i'm shocked that thy ddnt juss get on and do it all this time. They say that they are socialising more than ever but feel no connection in terms of discipleship or evangelism etc.

Honestly I am appauled, but I understand them, it's cool. So it looks like we gonna split. Straight clean cut down the middle - those of us who disciple and pry and worship and evangelise thru our relationships with all; and those who put it all on hold because they feel a need to do this stuff in meetings.

Peace to them, we still the Body of Christ, and i can send them recruits as i meet people who need that stuff... but i juss shake my head and sigh. Institutionalism? I dunno, I'm judging em, I know, maybe. My clan dont see the divide that they do. It's fine, they allowed to be seperate, it's how thy feel to be not "of the World". Personally, me and mine are juss being "in the World" and following the Narrow Way threaded implicitly thru our World.

So, it comes to this. A split, of sorts. Not because of theology or "the spirit" or hurt or hate, but because of personailty/world view / expressed reality.

We all must carry our Church in our minds, to know we are connected. Some of us do this easily, some need a meeting to puncture their lives, let them know they are not alone, maybe.

Grace is a trickster.

 

[Rick Otto]

enjoyin' the view!

 

[Multi-Elis]

About Fantasies : I keep remembering this line in "The Tango Lesson": it's a movie in which the director (female) wants to take tango lessons with this famous dancer (male). And they seel to like each other. They become friends. Then it turns out that his former dance partener left and he's thinking of making her his professionnal dance partner. And he does, but isn't satisfied with the results.They get into a sort of fight, and each one goes home feeling really upset. He calls up the director and says "You had fantasies about me" and starts making her feel very foolish about entertaining fantasies about him. And in the end she answers him back "and you had fantasies about me... about me making a movie about you and turning you into a star".
Those lines really made me think.

About a positive attitude: yes it's grace. After all, hell is an attitude, that you feel more acutely when you die. And when I suffer it's mostly from pessimism, anger, resentment, selfish ambition, jealousy, etc. And sometimes it's really hard to battle it. Really hard. And sometimes one little decision to be a little more positive and trust God a tiny bit goes along way.

 

[hairettic]

Sorry for the split Flan....keep on keeping on.
trying to face reality.

 

[hairettic]

Too often I know in my spirit that something is not right, but I can't quite put into words what the problem is. I know I rep you for this already, but I just wanted to repeat the encouragement. It has been totally freeing to realize that being a christian does not make one nice. Seriously. The church will tell you that is makes one more christ like. But that ain't the truth. The world is full of beautiful people who will never go to church. People who would give you the shirt off their back. the church will tell you that the people who don't show up sunday morning are the bad people.

and you said, (that you see Jesus in Atheists etc.) and it totally confirmed something else I had been struggling with and brought peace to my confusion..
People keep trying to separate the sheep from the goats and it just ain't to be so.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Thanks Multi. Fantastic!!!! LOL. Glad yer doing fine.

Hairy, it's a wonderful time when we see the World for the same one that Jesus loved and lived in. On the sheep and the goats note, wasn't the only difference between them "what they did and didnt do to the least of these"??????

 

[hairettic]

Could very well be....I thought some had horns and some were stupid...but your idea makes more sense....
Have you heard Todd Agnew's song _my Jesus_ ya gotta find it, if you don't have it.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Okily dokily doo, thanks for the musical tippereeno!

Seperation and loneliness are all in the mind.
It is possible to come into contact with someone 1000s of miles from you, never met them, but feel connected and know they are with you and for you. Whereas it is just as common to burn for and with someone and feel so desperately alone despite contact.

People ask me if I believe in God. When I say I know God and recognise God all over the shop, they wonder how. The simple truth might just be, that when we recognise the signiature and poetry and God in our World, we are able to know God without ever seeing God.

Humans often swap "connectedness" for "ownership". And itsn't it really really clear in our church buildings and meetings and members and leaders and songs and prayers and communion ribenas?

What would you say, Tryingtobe? Anyone?

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Grace is such a difficult thing to pin down.

What I am realising though, maybe, is that while Grace cannot be generated; unGrace is all too easily generated. I have struggled yesterday to be gracious about the mother of my children by the end of a gruelling day alone with my kids in a distant but much loved city. After a fairly traumatic train and bus journey, where I was on constant attention having to simultaneously discipline each of my 4 kids in turn - although little boy juss needed entertaining and a nappy chnage - and get them to share and play together, then seperate them, then reunite them so they could help ech other on and off of vehicles... I was drained. So when my mate picked us all up (bless him, I was losing it) I was less than gracious in a few throw-away comments I muttered out of hearing of the kids about their mother being with her bloke over these next few days.

It's hard for her, she's made a really tough choice - maybe wrong choice? who knows! there is potential for redemption in most things, even adultery - and it's so easy for me to forget this and just focus on my own pain and probably suffering (which can be interchanged with martyrdom which basically means piousness, sadly for me) and I get bitter and hard-hearted. But I mustnt.

So here it is, people, for those who pop in every now and then, how do we maintain grace? Well, easy answer is, we dont. An even easier answer is; dont be a hater. Always empathise. When your Eneny beats you black and blue with the end of their pistol, look down the barrel as they begin to squeeze that trigger and ask inside yourself, "what are they hiding, what do they hate baout themselves". Cos, I'm sorry folks, but any of us who hate another - even if its "righteous hatred" (which is still sin) - bascially we hate ourselves. Now dont get me wrong, I'd love to shove Freuds head up his mums butt as much as anyone, but the dude got that right. I think he stole it from Jesus, so not surprising he got it right, really, but if I hate someone, it's cos I hate something in me. Plain and simple.

So how do we be gracious? We stop being ungracious to them. How do we stop? By being gracious to ourselves. How do we doo this? By being transparent enough with oursleves and others till we see what it is we are so scared off or hate so much about ourselves.

God forgive my ungraciousness, and my fear to see my own fears for fear of having to deal with them and let go of poisens that taste so good and numb the pain I need to feel.

So gentle reader, I'm still cobling an essay/book together, and I am using your comments in it - i'll PM those who are quoted directly - but do please contribute when you can, otherwise I'll keep talking to myself here just to keep the Post in the top 20!!!!!

I'm expecting at least a hello form HairyGirl, MultiPass and Gukkor.

Oh, BTW Gukky, u into samurai philosophy, cos I'm writing an essay on tht if you fancy reading it or helping me out?

Cheers church, keep on buying the homeless beers and drinking with them. Its great to see people look as disgusted at you as they do to the homeless. Is this what Jesus did after all? If I could make Special Brew from tap water, I would. For now, it only costs a fiver for a 6 pack. Keeps the cold out and loosens tongues to hear a story you'd miss otherwise - and keeps the delirium tremours at bay for a few more precious hours. Oh the things we learn when we really see what Jesus meant by, "the poor, you will always have".

Peace out people.
God may just save one of us long enough for us to save another. Maybe.

 

[Multi-Elis]

I think this is a lucid, clear post that you have writen. I'll keep my brain tuned into what you said here, and think about it some more.

 

[Gukkor]

Grace is such a difficult thing to pin down.

What I am realising though, maybe, is that while Grace cannot be generated; unGrace is all too easily generated. I have struggled yesterday to be gracious about the mother of my children by the end of a gruelling day alone with my kids in a distant but much loved city. After a fairly traumatic train and bus journey, where I was on constant attention having to simultaneously discipline each of my 4 kids in turn - although little boy juss needed entertaining and a nappy chnage - and get them to share and play together, then seperate them, then reunite them so they could help ech other on and off of vehicles... I was drained. So when my mate picked us all up (bless him, I was losing it) I was less than gracious in a few throw-away comments I muttered out of hearing of the kids about their mother being with her bloke over these next few days.

It's hard for her, she's made a really tough choice - maybe wrong choice? who knows! there is potential for redemption in most things, even adultery - and it's so easy for me to forget this and just focus on my own pain and probably suffering (which can be interchanged with martyrdom which basically means piousness, sadly for me) and I get bitter and hard-hearted. But I mustnt.

So here it is, people, for those who pop in every now and then, how do we maintain grace? Well, easy answer is, we dont. An even easier answer is; dont be a hater. Always empathise. When your Eneny beats you black and blue with the end of their pistol, look down the barrel as they begin to squeeze that trigger and ask inside yourself, "what are they hiding, what do they hate baout themselves". Cos, I'm sorry folks, but any of us who hate another - even if its "righteous hatred" (which is still sin) - bascially we hate ourselves. Now dont get me wrong, I'd love to shove Freuds head up his mums butt as much as anyone, but the dude got that right. I think he stole it from Jesus, so not surprising he got it right, really, but if I hate someone, it's cos I hate something in me. Plain and simple.

So how do we be gracious? We stop being ungracious to them. How do we stop? By being gracious to ourselves. How do we doo this? By being transparent enough with oursleves and others till we see what it is we are so scared off or hate so much about ourselves.

God forgive my ungraciousness, and my fear to see my own fears for fear of having to deal with them and let go of poisens that taste so good and numb the pain I need to feel.

So gentle reader, I'm still cobling an essay/book together, and I am using your comments in it - i'll PM those who are quoted directly - but do please contribute when you can, otherwise I'll keep talking to myself here just to keep the Post in the top 20!!!!!

I'm expecting at least a hello form HairyGirl, MultiPass and Gukkor.

Oh, BTW Gukky, u into samurai philosophy, cos I'm writing an essay on tht if you fancy reading it or helping me out?

Cheers church, keep on buying the homeless beers and drinking with them. Its great to see people look as disgusted at you as they do to the homeless. Is this what Jesus did after all? If I could make Special Brew from tap water, I would. For now, it only costs a fiver for a 6 pack. Keeps the cold out and loosens tongues to hear a story you'd miss otherwise - and keeps the delirium tremours at bay for a few more precious hours. Oh the things we learn when we really see what Jesus meant by, "the poor, you will always have".

Peace out people.
God may just save one of us long enough for us to save another. Maybe.

Sure, I'd love to read your essay.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Sure, I'd love to read your essay.

LOL Gukky, cheers mate.
Where u from by the way? I could look at yer profile, but why when I can get you to do al the hard work of taling about yerself for me?

And Multi, thank you as always, I am honoured that you consider what I write and mull it over.

Peace out.

 

[Gukkor]

LOL Gukky, cheers mate.
Where u from by the way? I could look at yer profile, but why when I can get you to do al the hard work of taling about yerself for me?

And Multi, thank you as always, I am honoured that you consider what I write and mull it over.

Peace out.

I hail from Texas, myself, though I'm not exactly the stereotypical southerner (don't wear cowboy attire, don't have a southern accent, and actually use the term "soda" instead of referring to all carbonated beverages as "coke" ).

 

[Rick Otto]

I wanna look-see.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

LOL. Sweet Rick. I'm still rewriting the thing, burt if I send u guys what I got so far then maybe u can help me turn it into something that makes sense

My ese brother lives in Mosquite, btw Gukky. You anywhere near there? Also an old friend keeps going out to Texas - not sure where exactly - but shes hot and still single me thinx? Any good for yer? Shes English

Anyway, I have 20 vintage comics to read, that I bought for a tenth of their value. I am a geek-legend.

 

[Gukkor]

LOL. Sweet Rick. I'm still rewriting the thing, burt if I send u guys what I got so far then maybe u can help me turn it into something that makes sense

My ese brother lives in Mosquite, btw Gukky. You anywhere near there? Also an old friend keeps going out to Texas - not sure where exactly - but shes hot and still single me thinx? Any good for yer? Shes English

Anyway, I have 20 vintage comics to read, that I bought for a tenth of their value. I am a geek-legend.

Yeah, I live pretty close to there, an hour and a half or so drive from where I live. And yes, you are indeed a hero among geeks.

 

[hairettic]

Grace is such a difficult thing to pin down.

What I am realising though, maybe, is that while Grace cannot be generated; unGrace is all too easily generated. I have struggled yesterday to be gracious about the mother of my children by the end of a gruelling day alone with my kids in a distant but much loved city. After a fairly traumatic train and bus journey, where I was on constant attention having to simultaneously discipline each of my 4 kids in turn - although little boy juss needed entertaining and a nappy chnage - and get them to share and play together, then seperate them, then reunite them so they could help ech other on and off of vehicles... I was drained. So when my mate picked us all up (bless him, I was losing it) I was less than gracious in a few throw-away comments I muttered out of hearing of the kids about their mother being with her bloke over these next few days.

It's hard for her, she's made a really tough choice - maybe wrong choice? who knows! there is potential for redemption in most things, even adultery - and it's so easy for me to forget this and just focus on my own pain and probably suffering (which can be interchanged with martyrdom which basically means piousness, sadly for me) and I get bitter and hard-hearted. But I mustnt.

So here it is, people, for those who pop in every now and then, how do we maintain grace? Well, easy answer is, we dont. An even easier answer is; dont be a hater. Always empathise. When your Eneny beats you black and blue with the end of their pistol, look down the barrel as they begin to squeeze that trigger and ask inside yourself, "what are they hiding, what do they hate baout themselves". Cos, I'm sorry folks, but any of us who hate another - even if its "righteous hatred" (which is still sin) - bascially we hate ourselves. Now dont get me wrong, I'd love to shove Freuds head up his mums butt as much as anyone, but the dude got that right. I think he stole it from Jesus, so not surprising he got it right, really, but if I hate someone, it's cos I hate something in me. Plain and simple.

So how do we be gracious? We stop being ungracious to them. How do we stop? By being gracious to ourselves. How do we doo this? By being transparent enough with oursleves and others till we see what it is we are so scared off or hate so much about ourselves.

God forgive my ungraciousness, and my fear to see my own fears for fear of having to deal with them and let go of poisens that taste so good and numb the pain I need to feel.

So gentle reader, I'm still cobling an essay/book together, and I am using your comments in it - i'll PM those who are quoted directly - but do please contribute when you can, otherwise I'll keep talking to myself here just to keep the Post in the top 20!!!!!

I'm expecting at least a hello form HairyGirl, MultiPass and Gukkor.

Oh, BTW Gukky, u into samurai philosophy, cos I'm writing an essay on tht if you fancy reading it or helping me out?

Cheers church, keep on buying the homeless beers and drinking with them. Its great to see people look as disgusted at you as they do to the homeless. Is this what Jesus did after all? If I could make Special Brew from tap water, I would. For now, it only costs a fiver for a 6 pack. Keeps the cold out and loosens tongues to hear a story you'd miss otherwise - and keeps the delirium tremours at bay for a few more precious hours. Oh the things we learn when we really see what Jesus meant by, "the poor, you will always have".

Peace out people.
God may just save one of us long enough for us to save another. Maybe.

Damn Flan, I feel for you! You will get an ear full on grace from me. But you will have to wait for the pm. I applaude all you who can be so real out here in cyberspace, I know too many faces on here. And the story is mine, but not for young readers, sorry.

I was on my way out to the bar last night for a much needed girls night out, and while waiting for everyone else to quit their damn primping, I was standing outside looking at the starry sky and started praying for you. Realize, I thought this to be really wierd! I was going out to party, not really inviting God along.... . And instead I am standing out in the fargin cold praying for FLANDIDLYANDERS ! Maybe I just need a life! Maybe you just needed prayer. Hope your hangin in.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

TY Hairy girl, that's really touching!

Sure, I'd love to read some more about yer journey, so PM away. And yes I often need prayer, so always welcome.

I guess you didnt know that I go out in my back garden regularly after I've put the kids to bed and talk to the stars. Ancient God-reflecting wisdom is always easy to find in their winking eyes.

Yesterday I was profoundly shaken by the most beautiful soul I have ever come across, theres been a -whaddyacallit - paradygm shift inside of me, maybe. Thanks TryinToBe, I'm so happy yer starting to see the other half of it!!!!! Hope I will too now! LOL.

Peace out you happy, hippy people who may yet prove to be more than disembodied scrawling text on my laptop. Thinking we should all hook up in 07, I'm gonna be Stateside visiting Shane in Summer. Beers are on Gukky.

 

[Rick Otto]

I might swing thru the Dallas area on a possible trip to Tucson, to visit me mum.

 

[gratis]

Damn Flan, I feel for you! You will get an ear full on grace from me. But you will have to wait for the pm. I applaude all you who can be so real out here in cyberspace, I know too many faces on here. And the story is mine, but not for young readers, sorry.

I was on my way out to the bar last night for a much needed girls night out, and while waiting for everyone else to quit their damn primping, I was standing outside looking at the starry sky and started praying for you. Realize, I thought this to be really wierd! I was going out to party, not really inviting God along.... . And instead I am standing out in the fargin cold praying for FLANDIDLYANDERS ! Maybe I just need a life! Maybe you just needed prayer. Hope your hangin in.

Yeah and God was thinking what kind of name is Flandidlyanders...

I think there is a small revolution coming that may have the major focus being grace. After all, that is/was the biggest component of Jesus' mininistry. Unfortunately we have lost that through the ages....