Goodbye

[James4Christ 777]

He was one of the people who defended traditional Christianity in General Theology. I guess one have to be cautious.

It a reminder to check our pride , and remember it can be any of us who ends up in his state of apostasy.

 

[truefiction1]

A few years ago I was brought into a Greek parish, however I was basically catechized by living several months in a ROCOR monastery.



Several figures throughout history come to mind (mostly founders of religions and movements). Whilst Christ's claims to being the son of God make him stand out, there are problems that I will explain below.


















Since people are asking I suppose I will go into a deeper explanation of how I have come to this point and what I actually have come to believe. I will start by saying that I have been studying religion with an intensity that only an extremely depressed, frustrated individual can have. I have read hundreds of books on Church History, Greek Philosophy with its developments and origins, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Sumerian Babylonian and Egyptian mythologies and architecture as well as language. I have well studied most of the monastic fathers, especially when I was trying to become a monk, and I have a passion for pre flood archaeology and science, as well as studies related to DMT, psychic abilities within the brain, and potential telepathic abilities of early man. This is not to brag but merely to show that I have one passion, and one passion only- truth.

It started ironically as I was converting into Orthodoxy and doing an intense study on the lives of the early saints when I started to see that much of the writings about the early fathers and saints (especially their martyrdom's) have been embellished, likely to secure the faith of those under persecution and encourage them. I read on the development of the liturgy, and its relationship to early greco/egyptian mystery cults. Christianity is unique in a way that it was the first mystery cult to open up its knowledge to the common man, it was a philosophy for all. However historically it falls pale to the earlier mythologies that paint a very different picture than what the Old Testament interprets as history.

There was a flood, every mythology records it. Yet every mythology also records that there were multiple beings inhabiting the Earth, creating different species and basically ruling mankind. The Bible seems to imply that it was demons taking human women as wives, yet earlier Sumerian myths call them the Annunaki, a paint a very interesting picture of these other worldly beings creation of man. What is further interesting is that the Annunaki are present in different forms throughout the most early civilizations responsible for the most advanced, explainable architecture around the world. They are also the inspiration for the Goetic Demonology and Enochian Magic (listing the names of various angels).

All across the World from Machu Picchu to the pyramids, we see extremely advanced structures the further we go down time wise. The structures were built to resonate to certain musical frequencies and were all aligned with constellations, and for the most part still are. Tesla believed that the Obelisks present in Egypt were created to conduct certain forms of energy due to the fact that the Egyptians took stone from sometimes thousands of miles away in order to create conductive structures similar to Tesla coils. All these structures are made of the same kinds of Rock, and are cut with laser like precision. On the map they triangulate and some sites within these triangles look like they have been blown up. (I recommend watching Brian Foester on youtube. He is a megalithic archaeologist who does on site tours of these locations). Now I do not deny the supernatural qualities of the Christian Faith, however they are hardly unique. Faith healings are present across all cultures, as well as communication with entities, often with the use of psychedelics and higher meditation/ astral projection. Christians believe in the airy realm, which is equivalent to the hermetic "astral plane" where demons are said to reside.

My study into Demonology led me into studying the distinctly different personalities of different demons (I know many people who have contacted both angels and demons through use of sigils in meditation and it seems to be actually effective). Some demons (the word demon itself has been corrupted to have a negative connotation from monotheistic religion), are evil, some seem to help men, and some even seem good. Both Angels and Demons can be contacted with these methods and I find it interesting that the Bible strictly bans worship and communication with Angels. But why would Angels help a person summoning them in the first place unless they are some manner of independent? I've heard many people who claim that communicating with Raphael helped them be healed and so fourth. This is what I believe Christ's not so unique power came from. His interaction with demons, and many of his miracles, are directly in line with Goetic methods of binding and working. I realize many will be offended by this, but these are merely my interpretations. I have no ill will against Christianity or Christ because I don't see it as inherently evil to contact these beings. Why would Christ pick 12 apostles? Why pick the same number as the sum of the Zodiac. Even the apostles saw the importance of maintaining this number. Why?

My main interest is from here further studying the relationship between the annunaki, the prophets of old, the megalithic structures, and mythologies of the one world civilization that once was across the globe.

What is further interesting is that the Sumerians account for 2 more planets then we currently have in our solar system. They were ridiculously accurate about all things astronomy, yet made diagrams of a solar system with two more planets. I have heard theories that perhaps the Annunaki were in fact ETs from one of these planets, and this explains the head binding cultures found throughout the globe in early culture. Later on perhaps the two collided. Either way Sumerian mythology credits them for our creation, and describes them as going back into the heavens before the great cataclysm.

It is interesting that after the flood there were always legendary bringers of civilization- heros and magicians who brought higher technology and founded the early civilizations. Who were these men? What about the Giants and other creatures mentioned throughout the mythologies of the entire world. Why so many similarities?

Right now we are finding structures in Turkey tens of thousands of years old, and DNA study further shows that early man crossbred with at least 3 other hominid species. All this is yet left out of the Bible. Why? Perhaps because as many scholars believe, the OT was written by Daniel in the Babylonian captivity.

Furthermore throughout scripture is the usage of the word EL, and Queen of Heaven, as I am sure many of you are familiar with. These are references to ancient Canaanite deities yet are used in reference to the One God.

There are too many questions to be asked in all this and I cannot settle on one answer right now. My plan is to focus on DMT usage with a group I am forming, in order to scientifically and academically study these said topics. I already am attempting to get in contact with some experts in these fields, mostly the outsiders to the mainstream community. I won't go in anymore as this could go on for pages upon pages (I am beginning the writing of a book). I merely wish to give a general premise of some of the reasons I cannot commit to Christianity at the moment.

I thank you all for your kindness, and perhaps we can have further discussion in the future, but I encourage you all to further study the world and its faiths and histories without fear- for I feel more at peace and free then I ever have.

I've given Christianity a 22 year chance at making some impact on my life, yet little has been accomplished except further bringing me into confusion and depression. I cannot give it any more time. I hold no malice, and if there is a God I hope he will save me- yet I feel I have tried to find truth to the best of my ability and this is where it has led me.

This is meant to be a summary

I would say I came to Orthodoxy intellectually, but was raised Christian. You are correct though, I have never felt I've had a relationship with Christ even when I was a child. I have prayed, cried, and writhed around in the floor in agony over this to no avail. What else can I do eh? That is where the obsession began.

Oh... you didn't receive the Kingdom of God as a little child. We hate when this happens to anyone. We're so sorry about this.

 

[RobNJ]

He was one of the people who defended traditional Christianity in General Theology. I guess one have to be cautious.

Another example of why, no one in their right mind (or, me , for that matter ), venture into that open-air cesspool, that is the General Heresies forum!

 

[Not David]

Another example of why, no one in their right mind (or, me , for that matter ), venture into that open-air cesspool, that is the General Heresies forum!

It might not being General Theology otherwise he would say Obama is the Antichrist or that the Byzantine Emperor invented Orthodoxy.

I will also be careful of the Political and Atheist Forums here.

 

[☦Marius☦]

The problem with using psychedelic drugs for spiritual experiences is that you open your mind to the wiles of demons who are millennia old and much more knowledgeable about history than anyone living in the flesh. They are also more intelligent than someone having read hundreds of thousands of books.

Can DMT open one to these entities? Yes, as well as other chemicals or mediums of influence. And the one whose mind feels to be spiritually liberated is actually being further and further imprisoned, after each successive use, into a construct of reality in which they have created (with the help of demons) and have deified a ‘truth’ they have rationalized using their limited three pound brain, and in effect, replaced God as revealed by Christ with their mind. It is self-idolizing one’s brain and putting their mind to be above the mind of the Church. It is neo-Gnosticism, which was the first heresy the Saints contended with.

The demons know exactly how to promote this, especially to the willing, and they are playing the long game in their goal in the destruction of souls.

You have listed credentials which are neither impressive nor unique. Nothing you wrote is new to many of us. Nothing you referenced is something revealing. You have read a lot of books? I would bet I have read more, and that means little to nothing when the heart is a slave to the mind. You have taken psychedelic drugs, I bet there is no drug you have taken that I haven't as well, and yet no high has touched the soul or spirit more (or revealed more truth and knowledge of God) than a true and sober encounter with Christ, of which you have never really had or have forgotten.

You have spoken with demons? Big deal. You would do better to never have another spiritual experience in your whole life than continue doing so. I am not worthy of God’s grace and my prayer is not to grant me with spiritual experiences but rather to protect me from demons. In this way I have had much less supernatural experiences of heavenly grace but also in tandem with much less confrontations with demonic manifestations. This is much more helpful in this life of repentance than otherwise.

Your doubt is not unique even as you as an individual are. Your struggle is shared by many, even as your own personal experiences are yours alone. And your sin is sadly becoming more and more commonplace as the new “Gnostics” of our times are riding whatever wave the demons are conspiring to lead men away with. Of course now the common channel used (in conjunction with the zeitgeist of the times, as they have always done to fool the suspecting) is “alien encounters”, “intergalactic beings” and “inter dimensional entities”.

Nothing of this should be surprising. Many will fall away as we approach the last days and the wiles of the demons will only increase and strengthen.

I am going to finish by being blunt and not sugarcoating as other have, because the medicine you need is strong and bitter. Your sin is regrettable, but your prideful insistence to come here amongst friends, on a Christian based forum, in order to demote the faith of those here and justify your drug induced “awakening” is the greater sin and what you will be held more accountable for. Watch yourself, so that while you yourself are falling do not bring others down with you. The former is much easier to repent of than the latter.

Go fight your demons and if you need prayers from Christians, than come here and we will pray for you. There is no ill will from anyone posting here that I have seen. Everyone wishes you to find peace. But refrain from coming into this gathering in order to inject your “wisdom” which you know is against the faith of those present, which is simply a means of justifying your doubts and extolling your intellect. That is actually exactly what demons do. Come here instead for encouragement and fellowship, and to share the love for Christ which is what has brought the posters here to this forum. And if you cannot do that, than don’t until you can. That is not simply the Christian way, but the honorable way as well.

I get what you are trying to do, but you are making too many assumptions about my intent. I have yet to ever try psychedelics, merely study them.

All of should ask God why he has allowed someone who gave up everything he has multiple times to both monastic and missionary callings within various churches, to fall into what you are calling foolishness. When I have done nothing but pray for humility, freedom from my mental torment, and a prayer life. Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray? My entire life has been destroyed by this religion, and I don't feel it has benefited my soul in any way.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I've been reading the Bible and trying to pray my entire life. Look at my forum posts, does it look like I lack a Biblical education? Why does everyone assume it must be my failings that have led me here?! I've had honest intentions. I cannot help how I think or how I feel. I cannot help that God hasn't lifted one finger to help my prayers for freedom from sin and mental illness. My entire life has been accursed but oh it must be my fault. What have I done to deserve the hell that goes on within my mind? I have to try something before the end in order to save my self. No myrrh steaming icon, invocation of saints, prayer to Christ, exorcism, or reading and memorization of scripture has helped in 23 years. It's only gotten worse.

The monastery was my last straw. I gave my all and "God" gave nothing.

 

[☦Marius☦]

It a reminder to check our pride , and remember it can be any of us who ends up in his state of apostasy.

Do you know how proud this itself sounds? I started faltering during my time on this forum because of the sickening words of other "Christians".

 

[☦Marius☦]

I posted this post as a courtesy to those I consider friends on this forum. Not to be attacked by people who neither know my struggle, or my thoughts.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray?

Yes, I actually do know how this feels. It can take many forms : rage, sadness, lust, pride, vile thoughts, involuntary physical feelings caused by demons etc.
Involuntary physical feelings and vile thoughts can be caused by people using witchcraft, spells and sorcery against us because they are working with demonic spirits.
The Lives of Sts. Cyprian and Justina

The story of Martyrs Saint Cyprian and Saint Justina makes this abundantly clear.

The demons that are causing you this torment are the very same ones encouraging your fascination and research into demonology, magic and the occult.

I'm telling you man, it's demons doing this to you. It just means that you will have a great reward in Heaven because of the suffering you have endured in this life. But you must endure to the end.


.

 

[AMM]

Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray?

Yep.

I’ve seen it in levels that you describe in people that I am very close with. and I’ve felt it myself to a small degree.

It’s not fun by any means. You have my sympathy and my compassion. Lord have mercy on us.

 

[dzheremi]

I've been reading the Bible and trying to pray my entire life. Look at my forum posts, does it look like I lack a Biblical education? Why does everyone assume it must be my failings that have led me here?! I've had honest intentions. I cannot help how I think or how I feel. I cannot help that God hasn't lifted one finger to help my prayers for freedom from sin and mental illness. My entire life has been accursed but oh it must be my fault. What have I don't to deserve the hell that goes on within my mind? I have to try something before the end in order to save my self. No myrrh steaming icon, invocation of saints, prayer to Christ, exorcism, or reading and memorization of scripture has helped in 23 years. It's only gotten worse.

Lord have mercy. There is some I can relate to in some way in there, having been born with debilitating medical condition myself (that is, of course, incurable and degenerative...weeee ). I think something that a lot of people don't allow themselves to think or at least wouldn't tell others is that in this kind of state, it is entirely normal and understandable to doubt God and religion and want to reject all of it. I mean, people will point to Job and other similar characters in the Bible and say "Look -- here is a man who suffered unfathomable tragedies, and yet he still praised God." Yes, good. Good for him. A very good model for us all. Here's the thing: He had children, he had some amount of wealth, he had...things. I mean, if we're on the internet right now, I think we can safely assume that we all have things (read: I really hope this doesn't come off like an "everybody pity me" post, because that's not my point; I am definitely a member of the "1%" in a global sense, and so are basically all of us purely by virtue of being here), but it is really not the same. Modern life is a giant game of appearance and pretense and when you can't even participate because of problems that you had nothing to do with creating and can't seem to get any relief from...man, I dunno...it's hard. There's not really any reason to keep going that is extrinsic to you if you don't have anything or anyone that is extrinsic to you to turn to. Some people who manage to be more cynical than me would say that's why human beings turn to religion to begin with...or at least to internet forums like this one.

I just want you to know that no matter what is going on with you, there are people here who do care about you and don't want to judge you, even if we're all sad at the turn you've taken lately in regard to your faith or your relationship to religion or whatever you'd call it. Sometimes the victory is in persevering so that you can get through the natural run of life, including the precipitous drops. So many of the saying of the fathers (or at least the Desert Fathers, by whose path I was led into the Coptic Orthodox Church) warn us to expect temptation to the very last breath, and that is true, but there is also the reliability of pain, confusion, hurt, loneliness, and all of these other things that make life so full of snares. I spent roughly 10 years outside of any kind of religion after my mother died (she was a very faithful and committed Protestant, so I guess young me was angry with God for nevertheless taking her from a child, when she was really the only parent I had ever known up to that point). I honestly have only very dim memories of that time by now, but I do know that all of those bad feelings and experiences did not go away for me, but only intensified...as well as the bad ways that I coped (or rather didn't cope) with them.

So I am afraid that I am bound by the same question that the Lord was asked when so many had abandoned Him over His hard teachings: "Lord, to whom shall we go?"

Wherever you go, Marius, I sincerely hope that you find the peace that you are seeking.

 

[charsan]

I get what you are trying to do, but you are making too many assumptions about my intent. I have yet to ever try psychedelics, merely study them.

All of should ask God why he has allowed someone who gave up everything he has multiple times to both monastic and missionary callings within various churches, to fall into what you are calling foolishness. When I have done nothing but pray for humility, freedom from my mental torment, and a prayer life. Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray? My entire life has been destroyed by this religion, and I don't feel it has benefited my soul in any way.

I do not want to sound mean. You may have gone through a lot but others are worse off. Take me for example I am disabled, get chronic cellulitis which in the summer was so bad it changed me and required multiple visits and stays to and in the hospital. My wife has problems with dizziness so severe that sometimes all she can do is sit and she can only sleep in a chair. I need a lift van to get around and a hospital bed to be able to sit up in bed. We have prayed many times and I pray everyday about these things and you know what? Nothing. Even with that faith in God is what sustains us against all these terrible things.

Maybe this exchange between CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien might help:

The following Tuesday (September 22), Lewis recounted the scene to his longtime friend and correspondent, Arthur Greeves:

We began on metaphor and myth—interrupted by a rush of wind which came so suddenly on the still, warm evening and sent so many leaves pattering down that we thought it was raining. We all held our breath, the other two appreciating the ecstasy of such a thing almost as you would.

We continued (in my room) on Christianity: a good long satisfying talk in which I learned a lot: then discussed the difference between love and friendship—then finally drifted back to poetry and books.

Later in the letter, discussing the writings of William Morris (a 19th-century English novelist and poet who had greatly influenced Lewis from his youth), Lewis notes:

These hauntingly beautiful lands which somehow never satisfy,—this passion to escape from death plus the certainty that life owes all its charm to mortality—these push you on to the real thing because they fill you with desire and yet prove absolutely clearly that in Morris’s world that desire cannot be satisfied.

The [George] MacDonald conception of death—or, to speak more correctly, St Paul’s—is really the answer to Morris: but I don’t think I should have understood it without going through Morris. He is an unwilling witness to the truth. He shows you just how far you can go without knowing God, and that is far enough to force you . . . to go further.

The following month (October 18), Lewis wrote to Greeves again about their conversation:

Now what Dyson and Tolkien showed me was this: that if I met the idea of sacrifice in a Pagan story I didn’t mind it at all: again, that if I met the idea of a god sacrificing himself to himself . . . I liked it very much and was mysteriously moved by it: again, that the idea of the dying and reviving god (Balder, Adonis, Bacchus) similarly moved me provided I met it anywhere except in the Gospels. The reason was that in Pagan stories I was prepared to feel the myth as profound and suggestive of meanings beyond my grasp even tho’ I could not say in cold prose ‘what it meant’.

Now the story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened.

Source

I also wanted to say thank you for your time here and I hope again I don't sound mean. The bold came from the article above not me.

 

[A Realist]

I posted this post as a courtesy to those I consider friends on this forum. Not to be attacked by people who neither know my struggle, or my thoughts.

I hope the best for you, and sympathize with you because you are about to learn (and are already learning) who your friends really are.

Some folks also just don't understand that platitudes are of no benefit to you right now.

 

[James4Christ 777]

Do you know how proud this itself sounds? I started faltering during my time on this forum because of the sickening words of other "Christians".

How is it prideful to remind us all that it can be anyone who falls away, and not to have the "nah I'm good" mentally, which is pride. if the language was harsh in your view I'm truly sorry , please forgive me, if you think this was a personal attack on you, it wasn't, please forgive me.

Also Christians are rude, use bad language, lie, cheat on their wives, it is unwise to judge whatever to stay in the faith or leave over how random Christians on a forum behave, it is for sure disheartening, yet it one of the most wrong reasons to leave Orthodoxy.

 

[Nick1000]

I would say I came to Orthodoxy intellectually, but was raised Christian. You are correct though, I have never felt I've had a relationship with Christ even when I was a child. I have prayed, cried, and writhed around in the floor in agony over this to no avail. What else can I do eh? That is where the obsession began.

Okay, we will leave the Light on for you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I get what you are trying to do, but you are making too many assumptions about my intent. I have yet to ever try psychedelics, merely study them.

All of should ask God why he has allowed someone who gave up everything he has multiple times to both monastic and missionary callings within various churches, to fall into what you are calling foolishness. When I have done nothing but pray for humility, freedom from my mental torment, and a prayer life. Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray? My entire life has been destroyed by this religion, and I don't feel it has benefited my soul in any way.

do I? yes, I do. but more importantly, St Tikhon of Zadonsk does. he suffered throughout his life.

 

[AMM]

do I? yes, I do. but more importantly, St Tikhon of Zadonsk does. he suffered throughout his life.

Do you have more info on this Father? I have read St Tikhon is a patron saint for afflictions and suffering, especially mental, but I don’t know why

 

[Jonaitis]

All of [you] should ask God why he has allowed someone who gave up everything he has multiple times to both monastic and missionary callings within various churches, to fall into what you are calling foolishness. When I have done nothing but pray for humility, freedom from my mental torment, and a prayer life. Do you know what it's like to be in torment every time you try to pray? My entire life has been destroyed by this religion, and I don't feel it has benefited my soul in any way.

I do not need to ask God how or why, because he has already told us through his word. If I gave my view on this matter, in this forum, I would breach the rules for promoting contrary doctrine. You are an example of my view for how someone who may appear a believer may end up showing everyone that it wasn't real, abiding and transforming. You can show yourself to be great, theologically and morally, in the faith and still be lost.

There is such a thing as real, true apostasy, with the apostate convinced of his error. But how one is an apostate is debated among us professing Christians.

Marius, even though you were an EO (and Baptist before that), my heart still breaks for you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Do you have more info on this Father? I have read St Tikhon is a patron saint for afflictions and suffering, especially mental, but I don’t know why

he is the Orthodox version of the dark night of the soul.

 

[James4Christ 777]

he is the Orthodox version of the dark night of the soul.

Yes, the saints too had moments of doubt, we should look to them during times of unbelief.