Good tidings of great joy, which shall be to SOME people?

[Saint Steven]

Oops, that's not what it says.

Luke 2:10 KJV
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Ah... good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people.

How can the advent of Christ be good news for ALL people unless it truly is for ALL people?

Jesus was sent for a specific purpose. Did he succeed, or fail?

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[fhansen]

Oops, that's not what it says.

Luke 2:10 KJV
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Ah... good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people.

How can the advent of Christ be good news for ALL people unless it truly is for ALL people?

Jesus was sent for a specific purpose. Did he succeed, or fail?

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Its good news for all, not just for a select few. But some don’t want to hear and to know the good news.

 

[Strong in Him]

Oops, that's not what it says.

Luke 2:10 KJV
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Ah... good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people.

How can the advent of Christ be good news for ALL people unless it truly is for ALL people?

 

[tturt]

God loved the world "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,... "
our choice - "...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

But for all -
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Luk 2

 

[Saint Steven]

Its good news for all, not just for a select few. But some don’t want to hear and to know the good news.

That's the standard response, but does it make sense?

Who would refuse to hear good news?

 

[Saint Steven]

God loved the world "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,... "
our choice - "...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

But for all -
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Luk 2

John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[fhansen]

That's the standard response, but does it make sense?

Who would refuse to hear good news?

Adam had the good news right in front of him, and rejected it. His own pride, more than anything, had the final say in causing him to doubt God. We’re here to learn how wrong Adam was, to learn how good and trustworthy God is after all, and how much we need Him. And that doesn’t happen overnight, even for believers.

The bad news is that this life is all there is so we may as well indulge in all the futile things, living the empty life of our forefathers (1 Pet 1:18): eat, drink, be merry, surround ourselves with money, wealth, possessions, self-glory, pleasure-even if that means lying to, exploiting, harming my neighbor perhaps because it’s a dog-eat-dog world and tomorrow we die anyway and that’s all there is and all there ever will be.

Or the way of life, of faith, hope, and love as definitively revealed by Christ: God exists, God is one, God is good, trustworthy, merciful, kind and true and has always had man’s best interest at heart, which He knows far better than we do. This universe is founded on goodness and order and love even if our world may seem like a big chaotic mess at times and God has nothing in store but ineffable goodness, eternally, for those who choose His way, who choose that path of love themselves, for those who believe in and choose Him, IOW, the essence of that goodness, for those who ultimately come to love Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Not all will hear that as being better news than their own selfish and prideful agendas. Our own desire for self-glory, intrinsically related to a fear of what others think, often trips us up, just as it did for Adam to begin with.

 

[Strong in Him]

That's the standard response, but does it make sense?

Who would refuse to hear good news?

They might hear the Good News, but not want to respond if they think the cost is too high.
That's why Jesus spoke about the cost of being a disciple, and said, on another occasion, that no one plans to build a tower without being sure they will be able to complete it.
He himself had followers who turned back when they heard him give a difficult teaching, John 6:66.

 

[public hermit]

How can the advent of Christ be good news for ALL people unless it truly is for ALL people?

Jesus was sent for a specific purpose. Did he succeed, or fail?

I've wondered the same thing. Maybe Advent is supposed to be good news for all because some get to watch others be blessed, which is a rather large group either way you look at it.

The upside is, I think, it's not over until that huge celestial choir sings. Maybe it will be full. Success is in the result. I do think the church has erred in not being more cautious about this issue.

I was reading through the life of Origen again, last night. He was orthodoxy for a couple hundred years. The only person who didn't like him was an Alexandrian bishop that got his feelings hurt because the people loved Origen. He opened up the Word and they loved him for it.

At the very least, Origen was open to the possibility that all God had created would return to God. But, more than anything, the early church was much more in touch with the mystery and transcendence of God. The four Cappadocians, who all loved Origen, understood that God is ultimately and always inscrutable. Hard and fast pronouncements about what God can and cannot do were often qualified with the acknowledgement that the divine transcends us and there is virtue in waiting to see. The apophatic approach of the Cappadocians was thorough going both in their theology and spiritual practice. The EO have preserved some of that. But, the institution of the church loves power, and nothing delivers power like fear. Just go back and look how Origen is treated. What changed people's opinion of Origen a couple hundred years later? It was all politics and power.

 

[Saint Steven]

Adam had the good news right in front of him, and rejected it. His own pride, more than anything, had the final say in causing him to doubt God. We’re here to learn how wrong Adam was, to learn how good and trustworthy God is after all, and how much we need Him. And that doesn’t happen overnight, even for believers.

I think we tend to misunderstand Adam's intentions. He and Eve were deceived by the serpent. They had made no willful plans to disobey God that I am aware of.

 

[Saint Steven]

They might hear the Good News, but not want to respond if they think the cost is too high.
That's why Jesus spoke about the cost of being a disciple, and said, on another occasion, that no one plans to build a tower without being sure they will be able to complete it.
He himself had followers who turned back when they heard him give a difficult teaching, John 6:66.

It sounds like grace came with strings attached. Is that really grace?

 

[Saint Steven]

The bad news is that this life is all there is so we may as well indulge in all the futile things, living the empty life of our forefathers (1 Pet 1:18): eat, drink, be merry, surround ourselves with money, wealth, possessions, self-glory, pleasure-even if that means lying to, exploiting, harming my neighbor perhaps because it’s a dog-eat-dog world and tomorrow we die anyway and that’s all there is and all there ever will be.

It seems to me that those with a life devoid of meaning would want to hear some good news. Perhaps what the church is offering doesn't seem to fulfill their need? Why don't they jump at the opportunity?

 

[Saint Steven]

They might hear the Good News, but not want to respond if they think the cost is too high.
That's why Jesus spoke about the cost of being a disciple, and said, on another occasion, that no one plans to build a tower without being sure they will be able to complete it.
He himself had followers who turned back when they heard him give a difficult teaching, John 6:66.

What's so good about the good news, if it's so hard to accept?

 

[Saint Steven]

What changed people's opinion of Origen a couple hundred years later? It was all politics and power.

There it is in a nutshell.
Let's roast that chestnut on an open fire. - lol

 

[Lazarus Short]

There it is in a nutshell.
Let's roast that chestnut on an open fire. - lol

Every time someone comes along and states that God is our loving Father, there is no Hell, everyone is saved, etc, the gatekeepers come along to squash it with fear and accusations.

The trouble with an open fire is that it can be seen from a distance. The hopeful see it...as well as the adversaries.

 

[fhansen]

I think we tend to misunderstand Adam's intentions. He and Eve were deceived by the serpent. They had made no willful plans to disobey God that I am aware of.

At the end of the day it was an act of the will. Why should he be deceived? He heeded one voice rather than Gods, because he preferred what the serpent said. He also caved in to peer pressure, to Eve, as we all often do. He listened to the creature, rather than the Creator. The message is fairly simple: we can’t do that! And there are consequences if we do. Father knows best.

 

[fhansen]

It seems to me that those with a life devoid of meaning would want to hear some good news. Perhaps what the church is offering doesn't seem to fulfill their need? Why don't they jump at the opportunity?

Because they’re still looking horizontally, as Adam did, instead of up! We change, the world changes, for the better, when we begin looking up. We have to begin to be disappointed by the world though, jaded by its darkness and sin, at the same time. Unless we really believe that there’s something better, nothing changes.

And consider that there's a proclivity in fallen human nature to oppose and reject God anyway. It's based on pride. The evil that we witness and participate in to one degree or another in this world wouldn't even exist to begin with unless for that opposition.

 

[Strong in Him]

It sounds like grace came with strings attached.

No.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus, Romans 6:23; gifts need to be received.
If someone said they had bought you a car, it was at the garage and you needed to pick it up, but you didn't bother/didn't like the make/didn't want to make the trip to the garage, how would that gift of a car benefit you, or be yours?

 

[Strong in Him]

What's so good about the good news, if it's so hard to accept?

It's not hard to accept but sticking to the narrow path when you meet with suffering, problems or temptations might be too much for some.

 

[tturt]

Asks God to remove their blinders as He did for us.

One thing that impacts unbelievers is "...for their minds have been blinded by the god of this age, leaving them in unbelief. Their blindness keeps them from seeing the dayspring light of the wonderful news of the glory of Jesus Christ, who is the divine image of God." II Cor 4:4