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Good 'ol Herman
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QuiltAngel
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Prove it???Read his paper! It's filled with 8th commandment problems.
That's my take on it (and every LCC Pastor I have ever discussed it with) as well. I don't know why, but every congregation in LCC recieves two copies; and none have requested them.
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They don't have to request the CN paper becasue he sends them out free to most Lutheran synods. I've talked to "closet" readers of his that won't buy the paper but sneak around and read it and like most of what they read. Even on this forum there are people that do that. I won't name names.That's my take on it (and every LCC Pastor I have ever discussed it with) as well. I don't know why, but every congregation in LCC recieves two copies; and none have requested them.
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Studeclunker
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You know, one of the favourite weapons of the liberal is violation of the 8th. Stating facts, however another person sees them, is not breaking the 8th. Lying about another person is definately violating the 8th. Rad, Revrand, Please stop bandying that around and stick to facts.
I don't know much about Pastor Otten, all I know is from this forum and what is written here. He seems to be a highly controversial person who just might have gone a bit far in his fight to bring the Synod around (a very worthy and admirable persuit). At the same time, LCMS has been dragged around by the liberals since the thirties and the conservatives have sat on thier hands doing nothing since Pastor Otten was in diapers. So, the division amoung the conservatives cannot be laid at his feet.
Sadly, the LCMS has become fractured at a time when all the churches are wandering in the wilderness of liberalism and liberality. This is an old tactic of the liberal. They are very good at divide and conquer. Look what the Democrats have done to the Republican party. They salted it with some of thier own members and proceeded to break up the Republican party into factions. Thus, it really isn't any threat to them any more. This is largely what has happened in the LCMS. The liberals have succeeded in mudding up the waters of the Synod sufficiently to confuse and divide the more conservative element. Thus, the Liberals, providing a more unified front, have gained power and have wrested the Synod away from it's proper course.
I find it interesting that the LMCS has been stirred up and in conflict each time the E*CA has been pushed further to the left. When the new denomination was formed, the LCMS was still dealing with the effects of Seminex. When the Statement On Human Sexuality was first trotted out, the LCMS again, was in turmoil. Now, when the E*CA is again off to the races, so the LCMS is in turmoil. It's funny how the evil one keeps his enemies out of the way sometimes. Especially when he wants to complete a particular campaign. The E*CA has been conquered and thrown down. He is now turning his attention to the LCMS. If the Pastors don't stop this bickering and throw out the liberals, the LCMS will fall soon as well. That fall may be much closer, Reverand, than you may think. Never ignore the clarion call lest the conflagration overwhelm you unawares.
I don't know much about Pastor Otten, all I know is from this forum and what is written here. He seems to be a highly controversial person who just might have gone a bit far in his fight to bring the Synod around (a very worthy and admirable persuit). At the same time, LCMS has been dragged around by the liberals since the thirties and the conservatives have sat on thier hands doing nothing since Pastor Otten was in diapers. So, the division amoung the conservatives cannot be laid at his feet.
Sadly, the LCMS has become fractured at a time when all the churches are wandering in the wilderness of liberalism and liberality. This is an old tactic of the liberal. They are very good at divide and conquer. Look what the Democrats have done to the Republican party. They salted it with some of thier own members and proceeded to break up the Republican party into factions. Thus, it really isn't any threat to them any more. This is largely what has happened in the LCMS. The liberals have succeeded in mudding up the waters of the Synod sufficiently to confuse and divide the more conservative element. Thus, the Liberals, providing a more unified front, have gained power and have wrested the Synod away from it's proper course.
I find it interesting that the LMCS has been stirred up and in conflict each time the E*CA has been pushed further to the left. When the new denomination was formed, the LCMS was still dealing with the effects of Seminex. When the Statement On Human Sexuality was first trotted out, the LCMS again, was in turmoil. Now, when the E*CA is again off to the races, so the LCMS is in turmoil. It's funny how the evil one keeps his enemies out of the way sometimes. Especially when he wants to complete a particular campaign. The E*CA has been conquered and thrown down. He is now turning his attention to the LCMS. If the Pastors don't stop this bickering and throw out the liberals, the LCMS will fall soon as well. That fall may be much closer, Reverand, than you may think. Never ignore the clarion call lest the conflagration overwhelm you unawares.
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Slandering someone's name is a violation of the eight commandment so I'm not "bandying around" anything when I say it.
The rest of your comments are right on. Otten has even advocated in his newspaper that the synod will not survive unless it divides. Conservatives from liberals. Even under the new admin. That's the first time I've ever heard him say that.
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Zecryphon
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Is splitting the Synod really the only solution here? American Lutheranism seems to be divided into so many groups as it is, I'd really hate to see the LCMS split if there were another solution available.
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It seems extreme but when you scrutinize both sides there really seems to be a wide gulf between the factions. Each group has been influenced by 30-50 years of differences which started back in Seminex time and has been nurtured by each group for a long time (Jesus First, Daystar). When Seminex departed from the LCMS they left a large faction that recanted their affiliation with Dr. Tietjen but still held allegiances to his cause. They haven't changed their attitudes and it has been fermenting and rotting out the sub structure of LCMS since 1969.
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Herman prints the "facts" about it every week. All one has to do is read his paper to see it. It's in black and white. I recently showed two instances on this forum where he printed things that were out and out false, things that he's been railing on for a long time. The proof is in the CN pages.
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My Pastor and I discussed CN on Sat. His observation was that much of what it contains are reprints from previous issues. Pr. Otten seems to be caught in the deep rut that was Seminex.
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In a certain way your pastor is correct but Otten invested soooo much time in combating Seminex that when the crisis was past he was forgotten and denied his due. Many other wanted the fame and when Otten continued his battle against heterodoxy no one would help him in his battle because he would detract from their notoriety. Many people would rush to Otten to get help in their private agendas but when it was over they would ignore him. They wanted all the glory. Paul McCain is one of them.
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Christian News
Herman Otten's Christian News is now online and articles from his paper can be read and commented on. You can now "comment" to him personally and find out from him if what he says is correct. Now he can defend himself DaRev so you don't have to take "potshots" at him from behind his back where he can't defend himself. You can even Facebook and Twitter him.
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Herman Otten's Christian News is now online and articles from his paper can be read and commented on. You can now "comment" to him personally and find out from him if what he says is correct. Now he can defend himself DaRev so you don't have to take "potshots" at him from behind his back where he can't defend himself. You can even Facebook and Twitter him.
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Regardless of where anyone stands on this issue, there is a problem with your statement: "find out from him if what he says is correct." Only Jesus is self-authenticating.
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Great. So when an article is found where he intentionally misrepresents the truth, the whole world can then look it up and see for themselves.
And I've not taken "potshots". I've simply commented on facts.
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Any journalist worth his salt will authenticate his statements. He won't require the reader to investigate everything he writes. Christian News has a history of printing things that are simply untrue.
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