Good and Evil

[foolsmind]

I saw the movie Maleficent last week. It's a new way to tell an old story of Sleeping Beauty. Maleficent, the evil witch, was really just misunderstood. Her heart was broken by the man who became king. And when his child was born (not Maleficent's baby), she curses the child to get back at the king.

In a conversation with one of the movie theater clerks, this young man seemed very impressed that it was a new twist on an old theme of good and evil. It didn't seem to matter what was being communicated (in my view, it was just a sympathy for the Devil polt intended to reach tender, young minds) as long as it was a different way of thinking. Because today, different is fashion.

So, what's my question? How do you define good and evil? I asked this very interesting young man the same question. He just stared at me for a few seconds. How do you know what to stand for or against in this world with movies like this one capturing your imagination, and it's teaching there is little/no distinction between good and evil? That's two questions, but all roads lead to Rome.

Looking forward to hearing your responses. It may take me a few days to get back in the discussion. I start a new job tomorrow! Whoop!!!

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

There's as much distinction between good and evil as there is true from false. When all things are restored to true, evil will just be a historical term people used to use to describe a former spiritual ugliness.

 

[Paradoxum]

In a conversation with one of the movie theater clerks, this young man seemed very impressed that it was a new twist on an old theme of good and evil. It didn't seem to matter what was being communicated (in my view, it was just a sympathy for the Devil polt intended to reach tender, young minds) as long as it was a different way of thinking. Because today, different is fashion.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In the real world the villains might not always be so clear as in simplistic good vs evil movies.

I could say that clearly evil villains mislead the young into thinking that evil is always obvious. Or maybe a mix of various story types is good (also depending on age).

Anyway, I would think that cursing a child would be obviously immoral anyway (I haven't seen the movie). Don't you think the harming someone's child, just because their parent broke your heart, is very wrong?

So, what's my question? How do you define good and evil?

I doubt I can sum it up in one sentence, but roughly, violating people is wrong, and helping people is good.

Lots more could be said than that.

How do you know what to stand for or against in this world with movies like this one capturing your imagination, and it's teaching there is little/no distinction between good and evil? That's two questions, but all roads lead to Rome.

Well sometimes moral issues might be unclear in real life. I'd say it's very clear that cursing a child is wrong.

Looking forward to hearing your responses. It may take me a few days to get back in the discussion. I start a new job tomorrow! Whoop!!!

Hope it goes well.

 

[woodpecker]

I saw the movie and believe it is a wonderful movie in showing how being hurt by someone you love could lead to hate and revenge, but what was great about this story, the "witch" had love melt her heart, and revenge was not her goal anymore, but to make her situation right in light of love.

Good and evil can only be defined by God. No one is good, only God, and when one receives God and the Holy Spirit does he receive righteousness, without the washing of Christ, all are evil in Gods eyes.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

So, what's my question? How do you define good and evil?

Goods are things that are conducive to human flourishing, happiness, and empowerment.
Evils are things that are detrimental to human flourishing, happiness, and empowerment.

How do you know what to stand for or against in this world with movies like this one capturing your imagination, and it's teaching there is little/no distinction between good and evil?

I didn't get that impression from that movie. The distinction between good and evil was intact.

 

[quatona]

Because today, different is fashion.

This statement is a paradox. On top, for an analysis it would be far too simplicistic.

So, what's my question? How do you define good and evil?

As a pragmatist, I find this question not only overrated but completely useless. Even if I´d find a conclusive answer, it wouldn´t help me with anything.

Firstly, I don´t seem to have a desire to judge people. I find it way more interesting and helpful for any given purpose to find out what motivates a person and what prompted him/her to act the way he/she did. Thus, the way you describe it, chances are that I like the message of this movie.

Besides judging people, the idea of "good and evil" often comes up in the context of decision making. Actually, I am not seeing how approaching this (unqestionably important) issue from the most abstract and academic question fathomable could be of any help.
Every day I find myself faced with countless major or minor decisions of the "What to do now? How to act in this situation?" kind. What all these situations (even the least important ones) have in common: They are incredibly complex, in that they involve a couple of persons in their individual stages of life, with their individual needs, fears, hopes, wants. Never is it about doing "the (absolutely) good thing" - it´s always about weighing up a lot of short- and longterm consequences against each other (which, on top, often escape predictability).
Furthermore, I have to do that based on various values I hold, which also can´t absolute but need to be weighed up against each other.

So, yes, decision making is a hard, challenging, complex and complicated issue that involves a lot of guesswork and assumptions, and sometimes I´d like it to be easier, simpler.

How do you know what to stand for or against in this world with movies like this one capturing your imagination, and it's teaching there is little/no distinction between good and evil?

Short answer: a mixture of my empathy and my values seem to be my guidance.

I start a new job tomorrow! Whoop!!!

Is it good or evil?

 

[BL2KTN]

If evil is the equivalent of the worst bad, then evil is the desire to torment a conscious being (the very worst bad I can think of is for all conscious beings to be in absolute torment). Thus, the greatest good would be for all conscious beings to be maximized in joy and fulfillment.

Simple and quantifiable.

 

[Received]

For the good see Aristotle. For evil, ehhhh. I understand it as a sense of revenge related to badness inflicted on the self that isn't digested. Evil is a misplaced and disproportionate will-to-justice.

 

[Cearbhall]

In a conversation with one of the movie theater clerks, this young man seemed very impressed that it was a new twist on an old theme of good and evil. It didn't seem to matter what was being communicated (in my view, it was just a sympathy for the Devil polt intended to reach tender, young minds) as long as it was a different way of thinking. Because today, different is fashion.

I haven't seen the movie, but I disagree with this. I much prefer complex villains to purely evil villains. The latter is for children, because they still see the world in black and white. This portrayal of Maleficent sounds more realistic. Real-life villains are human beings with experiences and stories that have shaped them and inspired their actions. They aren't possessed by the Devil. I doubt the movie claims that it was right of her to curse a child to get revenge.

 

[Pastor Don]

We know what good is. God told us in the first Chapter of Genesis. Evil is a sliding scale that I believe we have come up with to determine just how far one can travel from God. On one end we have "slight mischief and white lies and on the other end the foulest of evils." The truth is sin is sin... Neither the white lie or the worst possible sin will be tolerated by God. Humanity needs this scale though to determine what WE will tolerate. How much sin will we allow to exist in our lives and our societies before we scream "FOUL." Obviously, men like Hitler and Dahmer stepped over the line of comfort for us, but I wonder how many others operate just under our comfort radars. How many abusers, underground sex traffickers, child pedophiles, pornographers, pimps, drug dealers, coyotes, mob kingpins, cartels, gangbangers, etc... are running around that we know of but simply do nothing about because our lives are comfortable and to step out and say something might upset our own comfort...

 

[Eudaimonist]

So, what's my question? How do you define good and evil?

Good is what is appropriate to the rational life, and evil is that which destroys or stunts that.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Emmy]

Dear foolsmind. Jesus gave us the truth in Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus told us that God wants our Love, SELFLESS AND NO TAGS ATTACHED. The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself. Jesus also tells us" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus again gives us a great truth: " You all know the two
Commandments to Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds, and love your neighbour as YOURSELVES, DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.
God is Love and God is Good, and we all know that Satan is Evil. Satan will run away from all Love and Compassion, and all followers of Satan will follow.
Good is Anathema to Satan and followers, and Evil is Anathema to Jesus and His followers. Therefore all Good/Love is from God, and all Evil is from Satan:
We have to ask ourselves sincerely: " Whatever I say or do, will it please God,
or will it please Satan?" If it is something that I am not quite sure about,
let us remember that God sees our hearts and knows our thoughts,
God will know our sincere thoughts. Good or Evil? Let us all be on God`s Side
I say this with love, foolsmind. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[BL2KTN]

And yet, God created Satan.

 

[woodpecker]

And yet, God created Satan.

God did not create evil, Licifer did this himself.
......

The Bible says that Satan was created by God as a cherub, the most powerful of God's angelic beings.4 Some time after his creation and before the creation of mankind,5 Satan rebelled against God and took one third of the angels (now referred to as demons) with him into rebellion.6

However, Satan wasn't finished in his rebellion against God. Satan took on the form of a snake in the garden of Eden to tempt Eve.4, 15 He managed to convince Eve that God's instructions against eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil were done as a way of keeping something good from her. She believed Satan's lie that she would "become like God."17 We don't know where Adam was at the time of Satan's temptation, but he followed his wife's lead and also disobeyed God's instructions.

isn't certain when Satan rebelled against God, but a passage from the book of Job (Job 38:4-7) suggests it occurred between the creation of the earth and the creation of Adam and Eve. In describing the creation of the earth to Job and his friends, God said that "all the sons of God shouted for joy."16 Presumably, "all the sons of God" would have included Satan as well, suggesting he hadn't rebelled at the point the earth was created.

Who Is Satan?: What Does the Bible Say About the Devil?

 

[BL2KTN]

And God probably didn't know Lucifer would turn into Satan and create evil, right? And he didn't know that Satan would pretend to be a talking snake, tricking a rib-woman into sharing a magic fruit with her dirt-husband, thus condemning the invisible, undetectable ghost-spirit-souls of all humans everywhere.

It's like saying "God lit the match, but he didn't start the fire."

 

[PsychoSarah]

For the good see Aristotle. For evil, ehhhh. I understand it as a sense of revenge related to badness inflicted on the self that isn't digested. Evil is a misplaced and disproportionate will-to-justice.

I would say that sounds more like vengeance

 

[PsychoSarah]

God did not create evil, Licifer did this himself.
......

The Bible says that Satan was created by God as a cherub, the most powerful of God's angelic beings.4 Some time after his creation and before the creation of mankind,5 Satan rebelled against God and took one third of the angels (now referred to as demons) with him into rebellion.6

However, Satan wasn't finished in his rebellion against God. Satan took on the form of a snake in the garden of Eden to tempt Eve.4, 15 He managed to convince Eve that God's instructions against eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil were done as a way of keeping something good from her. She believed Satan's lie that she would "become like God."17 We don't know where Adam was at the time of Satan's temptation, but he followed his wife's lead and also disobeyed God's instructions.

isn't certain when Satan rebelled against God, but a passage from the book of Job (Job 38:4-7) suggests it occurred between the creation of the earth and the creation of Adam and Eve. In describing the creation of the earth to Job and his friends, God said that "all the sons of God shouted for joy."16 Presumably, "all the sons of God" would have included Satan as well, suggesting he hadn't rebelled at the point the earth was created.

Who Is Satan?: What Does the Bible Say About the Devil?

So? Are you saying god made a mistake? There is nothing in the bible to suggest that angels should have the sort of free will humans like to claim.

 

[Received]

I would say that sounds more like vengeance

Vengeance has a target that's relatively proportionately reciprocated toward based on the perceived injustice from this target. Evil, IMV, is the result of accreted instances of injustice that are disproportionately dumped on a target that one deems has acted unjustly toward you. So yeah, revenge is a similar theme, but it's a matter of proportionality and context.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

God did not create evil, Licifer did this himself.
......

Could Lucifer operate independently from God's plan? Could Satan do things that God is unaware of? Because that would contradict the idea that God is all knowing and omni-present.

God, being the source of everything that exists, is also the source of both good and evil. I find it interesting that theists will acknowledge that God is the ultimate source to the entire universe but somehow, evil isn't a part of that. "That was someone else."

When you realize this, the whole story falls apart.

 

[Feldon]

Could Lucifer operate independently from God's plan? Could Satan do things that God is unaware of? Because that would contradict the idea that God is all knowing and omni-present.

God, being the source of everything that exists, is also the source of both good and evil. I find it interesting that theists will acknowledge that God is the ultimate source to the entire universe but somehow, evil isn't a part of that. "That was someone else."

When you realize this, the whole story falls apart.

If God created you, and you then create evil... is that on you? Or should God be blamed for the sins of man, as well as the sins of Satan?