Gone over to the dark side...

[ViaCrucis]

Christians living as Jesus taught. And unity of belief amongst Christians.

Was there something in the tradition in which you were part of that led you to believe that Christians are anything other than fallible sinners like everyone else?

I'm not being snarky, or at least that's not my intent. It's a sincere question, because I know that some traditions do teach something like that (or, at the very least, that seems to be the implication).

I have no misgivings about who and what I am as a human being, I'm pretty broken, I don't have all the answers (maybe not even many answers), I'm a sinner, I frequently fail to do what I believe I should do. So, I'm definitely a hypocrite. I try not to present myself as anything I'm not, but rather would prefer to be open about my shortcomings.

But further, I've never seen any reason to believe that the integrity of the Christian Gospel rests upon the moral impeccability of those who believe it.

I don't just see this in regard to my own religion. I don't make similar judgments against Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, et al. There is always going to be a disparity between persons and the teachings of their religion. I wouldn't expect that a Jewish person is, because they are a Jew, always going to perfectly observe their own religion's moral framework, likewise with Muslims, likewise with Hindus (and so on and so forth).

As such, I suppose I don't understand why religious people--of any variety--being imperfect, being faulty, fallible, and well, human, would be detrimental or an inherent argument against the validity of a religious tradition. Divisions among religious traditions, as well as the flawed ways religious persons observe their religion, all seems indicative of the fact that people are flawed, not that the particular religious claims of the religion are wrong.

All this just to say that I fail to understand how these things are evidence or counter-evidence to whether [a] g/God exists; or to the veracity of any particular religion (or any religion).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[anx66]

I was thinking of Jesus prayer at the time, that Christians would be brought to unity. I couldn't see how the church reflected this prayer. It seemed antithetical to the prayer. (John 17:20 was the place in scripture that Jesus prayed this prayer.)

 

[Barnabas2]

How does God's existence in any way depend on either of those?

Something to seriously consider:

The Marks of the New Birth

1. The Christian life begins with a deep conviction of sin followed by a thorough repentance from sin. This always precedes the assurance of pardon by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals our sin to us in all it's ugliness. Sins of commission. Doing what God has forbidden. Violating His holy commands. Sins of speculation. Thought sins. Sins of desire which are opposed to God and His holy word. Longing looks. e.g. if a man looks on another with lust he has committed sin already in his heart. Sins of omission. Failing to do all God has commanded us to do. Not obeying from the heart that form of teaching we have received from the Lord. Anyone who has never known a broken and a contrite heart or felt the intolerable burden of sin due his many sins and failures is a stranger to true repentance. A stranger to the new birth. He will know what it is to wrestle against the world, Satan and sin while agonising to enter the kingdom of heaven at the straight gate. Luke 13:24.

2. In John chapter 3 verses 3, 5 and 7, Jesus said, "You must be born again!" Born from above. Must! It is imperative. Come short of this new birth and you cannot 'see' (understand / comprehend) the Kingdom of God and you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Cannot! This new birth is a vast and mighty change within. Here the person is brought out of the darkness of sin and slavery to sin, into the light and freedom of God's so great salvation. Inwardly there is a deliverance from the power of Satan unto the liberty of the children of God. It is no less than a resurrection from the dead. Consider Ephesians 2:1-3, "And you he has made alive who were dead in trespasses and in sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as other". Not any longer! I am a new creation! I have thoroughly repented of my sin, thrown myself utterly and completely on the mercy of God in Christ and Him crucified. (To God alone be all the praise and glory!)

3. The believer declares:- The Holy Spirit witnesses with my spirit that I am forgiven, I am truly a child of God. My heart is filled with the joy of sins forgiven. The chains of sin and Satan are broken. I am free at last! There is a humble joy which gives God all the praise and glory. My eyes have been opened, I see and abhor my past life and wonder how I could have been so wicked. I see myself as the chief of sinners. I begin to walk in newness of life. I hate the things I used to love and love the things I used to hate. There is a meekness, patience, gentleness and long-suffering which I never had before. A tenderness of soul which words cannot express. I now have a love for God I never before possessed. 1 John 5:3, "This is the love of God that we keep His commandments". John 14:21, "He who has My commands and keeps them, he it is who loves Me". Love rejoices in obedience. In doing whatever is according to the will of God. My eyes are continually heavenward as I set my face as a flint to press toward the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus my Lord.


Is this your experience or are you only a professor not a possessor? A Christian in name but not in nature. Just the old man in a new suit of clothes and not a new man in a new world. Perhaps you have been trying to live the Christian life without possessing the life of Christ. Maybe this is a wake-up call for you. Maybe it's time for you to examine yourself as Paul said, and see if you are really in the faith or not. 2 Corinthians 14:5. Test yourself and see. Remember, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to Him in repentance. That includes you and me. Read this through again and test yourself as the scripture says. May the Lord graciously guide you as you genuinely look to Him.

 

[anx66]

Back off track my friend.