Going for the Jugular

[JohnR7]

I saw a demonstration on TV where they tested the design of a saber-toothed tiger to see how effective it's would have been. So they rigged up something on backhoe and tried it out on a 5 or 600 pound cattle. First they tried to "bite" into the belly. Other then the puncher wounds, it did not do that much harm. So then they went for the jugular veins in the nect and the two front teeth were able to cut the main veins with very little effort. We all know how fast an animal will quite fighting once the jugular vein has been cut.

It makes me wonder though. Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut? You would think that they would have evolved in a way so that it was not so easy to kill them. Perhaps with jugular veins not so close to the surface or a lot more smaller veins that are not so easy to cut.

 

[Lord_Marx]

I'd wonder where the intelligence in such a vulnerable design would be myself...

 

[yasic]

Perhaps it worked with the whole "Freezing goat" effect

If an animal had his neck bitten, if he stopped fighting instnatly, perhaps it bettered the group.

Or perhaps having 1 instead of many in the long run does more good then harm in terms of energy effitiancy (Mabey it takes less energy if you only send blood through 1 vein then many, and the saved energe helped populations more, then the few loss of individuals)

I dont know for sure what the real answer is, but these are possibilities.

 

[truthmonger89]

I saw a demonstration on TV where they tested the design of a saber-toothed tiger to see how effective it's would have been. So they rigged up something on backhoe and tried it out on a 5 or 600 pound cattle. First they tried to "bite" into the belly. Other then the puncher wounds, it did not do that much harm. So then they went for the jugular veins in the nect and the two front teeth were able to cut the main veins with very little effort. We all know how fast an animal will quite fighting once the jugular vein has been cut.

It makes me wonder though. Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut? You would think that they would have evolved in a way so that it was not so easy to kill them. Perhaps with jugular veins not so close to the surface or a lot more smaller veins that are not so easy to cut.

If you're an intelligent design proponent then the answer is that it was a bad design. Should've been scrapped before it ever left the drawing board, but somehow it got sent to production. Although one good thing about it is it makes it easier for predators to have lunch, especially since they were designed with those great big teeth for slicing into other animals. One good design feature of most prey is that they generally can run pretty fast and therefore have some form of defense for their otherwise vulnerable necks.

One does have to wonder why a loving, benevolent, omnipotent god would design nature to be so violent in the first place, with a bunch of animals basically having an all-you-can-eat buffet of other animals. Why did he make it so violent?

 

[rambot]

Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut?

yeah....And why do brains need blood anyways? If blood carries oxygen, why not just have a whole in the head (maybe in the ear) that takes oxygen right to brain tissue...cut out the middle man....

All sarcasm aside:
1) smaller vessels are not as efficient as larger ones.
2) the distance from the heart to the head (obviously) is quite short, vis a vis, it will be a thicker blood vessel b/c (relatively) small amounts of blood are needed in between the brain and the heart.
3) The veins going up the insides of our legs are just as big....yet no one attacks those veins.
4) It seems, to some extent, you answer your own question. There are very few really succeptable parts on the bodies of sabre tooth tiger/backhoe victims. Perhaps that artery is the key to the survival of the big cats.

 

[Adriac]

Why haven't all prey animals evolved into large chunks of granite? Clearly the survivability of a more enclosed/smaller jugular is less than that of a more efficient circulatory system.

Or, to put it another way, when a saber-toothed tiger is biting you in the neck, you might start to think it would have been smarter to evolve faster running away.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut?

Well, the reason for that is obvious. Before the fall all animals (including the t-rex) were cute and cuddly vegetarians that didn't run around biting each other. And since evolution doesn't exist, no means of protection would develop. Obvious when you think about it, isn't it?

 

[nvxplorer]

It makes me wonder though. Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut? You would think that they would have evolved in a way so that it was not so easy to kill them.

Evolution doesn't produce invulnerable creatures.

 

[yasic]

Evolution doesn't produce invulnerable creatures.

if that were true....


Evolution makes God Mode

 

[JohnR7]

Evolution doesn't produce invulnerable creatures.

We are told that "invulnerable" creatures have a selective advantage over vulnerable creatures.

 

[Nooj]

I don't think it's a matter of evolution. I sincerely doubt that any selective pressures will push humans into abandoning our interior skeleton and pick up a insect-like exoskeleton. Once we've come to a certain point, it's hard to change things back. A tipping point. For example, can vertebrates evolve into non-vertebrates? Maybe, but not quickly.

I see the jugular vein in the same way. Sure, it would be awesome if the jugular was incased in bone so that animals were immune to killing bites, but it's not going to happen instantly. We're talking about a vital area in the neck, where if a mutation occurred or something happened in the development of the baby, serious damage could occur.

According to John's idea, evolution would favour those animals that had their jugular veins deeper inside and less prone to attack.

I see two problems with this idea:

1) I'm pretty sure the placement of jugular veins is not a genetic trait that can be inherited.

2) Not many animals are killed by a blow to the jugular anyway, so there's no real selective pressure is there? Even in the time of the sabertooth cats, it's probable that the cats picked off a few every week. Is this enough for natural selection to occur?

With John's example of the sabertooth cats, it's conceivable that their prey developed some sort of defense. Maybe not a physiological adaption (a deer can't evolve a bony crest for example. There isn't the genetic variation there. Nothing to work with). Maybe a behavioural adaption, like flocking.

Toodles.

 

[Numenor]

My neighbour used to drive a Jugular, now he has a Mercedes

 

[DailyBlessings]

I saw a demonstration on TV where they tested the design of a saber-toothed tiger to see how effective it's would have been. So they rigged up something on backhoe and tried it out on a 5 or 600 pound cattle. First they tried to "bite" into the belly. Other then the puncher wounds, it did not do that much harm. So then they went for the jugular veins in the nect and the two front teeth were able to cut the main veins with very little effort. We all know how fast an animal will quite fighting once the jugular vein has been cut.

Interesting conclusion they came to, since I've seen a human cranium with two neatly punched saber tooth tiger marks fracturing the skull quite effectively. I suspect surviving such an attack would have had more to do with how quickly you got away than how vulnerable your neck was.

 

[cerad]

3) The veins going up the insides of our legs are just as big....yet no one attacks those veins.

Arteries are a better target then veins. And knicking the femerol artery in the leg will kill someone in a few moments. Standard tactic especially for Roman soldiers.

 

[shernren]

There's Un-Intelligent Design for you.

 

[Loudmouth]

It makes me wonder though. Why do so many animals have a vein in the neck that is so easy to cut?

You need to take a step back for a moment. Here is a little experiment for you. I will break it down into steps.

1. Go home and grab a knife.

2. Find your local national forest in an atlas. Travel there and find a suitable camping spot.

3. Get some rest, you're going to need it.

4. Go out and find a deer. See how easy it is to go up to a deer and cut it's jugular. Good luck, you're going to need it.

The defense mechanisms that prey species have evolved more than make up for their vulnerable necks. Instead of deer, go to Africa and chase down some water buffalo. You will soon find that you are the one being chased.

Also, while the jugular is the most vulnerable area if it were changed there would still be other spots that are just as vulnerable. For instance, lions usually kill their prey by suffocation either by covering the snout or crushing the trachea. My favorite is the Komodo dragon. Their mouth is full of toxic bacteria. Upon biting their prey (which outweight them by hundreds of pounds), this bacteria is transferred to the prey where it slowly kills the animal over a 2-3 day period. The Komodo dragons use their excellent sense of smell to track down prey that has festering wounds, or animals that have just died. A protected jugular/neck would not help protect against the Komodo dragon.

You would think that they would have evolved in a way so that it was not so easy to kill them.

They have. There are several different strategies, the most common being protection within a herd.

 

[llDayo]

If it weren't for jugular veins those poor vampires would never have survived.

 

[Grummpy]

Sabre Tooths were more a result of the size of their prey animals than anything else. Imagine the size tooth required to reach a Wooly Mammoths jugular, or a cave bear or Great Hart(larger than a moose).

Grumpy

 

[Gracchus]

We are told that "invulnerable" creatures have a selective advantage over vulnerable creatures.

What invulnerable creatures are these? And who tells you these ridiculous things?