Gog and Magog in Revelation and Ezekiel

[Spiritual Jew]

From what I read, the reason why God has a future Millennial age is because some people will think that without the temptations and influence of Satan, that Man would then be sinless and therefore shouldn't be blamed. The Millennial Age will show that man still sins albeit at a lower level.

From what you read where? Not in scripture.

Why would God need to do that when these are things that we already know? God doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. His Word indicates that man is responsible for his own sin rather than being able to blame it all on Satan. He doesn't need a supposed future Millennial age to prove that.

Jesus reigns over the world to keep it in order. Any people who aren't believers from the tribulation that's still alive will live during this time and will continue to marry and be given in marriage, and have children. These mortal people will still be able to decide for themselves whether they want to be with the Lord or not. The Lord's people in the meantime, will reign with Him, probably as administrators of cities, and such.

Then at the end of the Millennial age, God wants to show that rebellion is still in the heart of mortal Man but Man won't be strong enough to raise up opposition against God by themselves. So God will release Satan to allow Satan to muster up these rebellious people. But this is so weak and will end embarrassingly quick for Man and Satan. I mean Jesus won't even have to do much, lol!

Where is anything you're saying here taught in scripture? Show me the scripture which says that "at the end of the Millennial age, God wants to show that rebellion is still in the heart of mortal Man".

And then the Lord will hand over the kingdom to His Father.

Paul taught that Jesus will hand over the kingdom to His Father at the end when He returns:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture teaches that the dead in Christ will rise and their bodies will be changed at the last trumpet when Christ returns (1 Cor 15:22-23,50-54; 1 Thess 4:14-17) and He has not yet returned. If you want to insist on contradicting what scripture teaches about that then that is your choice.

It does not contradict Paul. Paul wrote that over 1900 years ago. The dead in Christ have been rising first. Since they are in Paradise, they have already been changed. They would not be allowed in Paradise if not.

Besides Paul already pointed out in other books the OT were already removed from sheol and presented to God in Paradise at the resurrection of Jesus.

Your wooden interpretation of those verses contradict other clear Scripture written by Paul. Paul says they come with Christ, not resurrected at the same time they are coming.

If I claimed that you would call it nonsense. But since you interpret Paul and his words, you accept the nonsense of such interpretation to force your Amil bias.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The way I tend to reason some of these things myself is like such, right or wrong.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


There are 2 types of resurrection events. One is involving those that have done good, the other is involving those that have done evil. And that the former always precedes the other every single time. IOW, until every single person that fits the former resurrection category are resurrected, none in the latter category are resurrected in the meantime. Therefore, it makes it the first resurrection in more ways than one.

For example, Christ's resurrection. Obviously, His resurrection fits the former. Were any in the latter category also resurrected at the time? No.

Next let's consider these.

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

When these are resurrected were there also those in the 2nd category that were resurrected as well? No.

Next let's consider these.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


When these are resurrected will there also be those in the 2nd category that will be resurrected as well? Meaning at that moment in time? No.

And finally, let's consider these.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


When the dead in Christ rise first, which should also include everyone saved involving OT times, since Christ's sacrifice not only saves those post that, it also saves those prior to that sacrifice, will there also be those in the 2nd category that will be resurrected as well? Meaning at that moment in time? No.

There you go then, not one single person pertaining to the latter category is ever resurrected before all of those pertaining to the first category are. In Revelation 20 it only involves 2 categories of resurrection events, as does John 5:28-29. And that Revelation 20 informs us that every single person that has part in the first resurrection, they are resurrected before that of anyone who doesn't live again until the thousand years are finished.

But, did Jesus say that hours/times (plural) are coming when all of the dead will be raised or that a singular hour/time is coming when all of the dead will be raised? The latter, right?

I agree that the righteous/saved will be raised before the wicked/unsaved are raised, but Jesus strongly gave the impression that they would be raised at generally (but not necessarily exactly) the same time.

Here is the passage again:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is how it would read if your understanding of things was accurate:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hours are coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; In the first hour they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and in the second hour that will come long after that, they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It does not contradict Paul. Paul wrote that over 1900 years ago. The dead in Christ have been rising first. Since they are in Paradise, they have already been changed. They would not be allowed in Paradise if not.

Again, he taught that they would be raised at the last trumpet when Christ returns. Has Christ returned yet? No. So, they have not been raised from the dead yet and you are believing something that is not taught anywhere in scripture. Simple as that.

If you insist on contradicting what Paul taught about this, then that is your choice and I can't stop you. It's just unfortunate that you choose to do that.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus repeats that twice. In one version, Jesus claims the hour has already arrived.

No, He did not repeat that twice. You are making Him out to be a fool who thought He had to repeat what He had just said. I assume you are talking about what He said here just prior to what He said in John 5:28-29.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Jesus was not talking about bodily resurrections here. He was talking about crossing over from spiritual death to spiritual life. That is what has been ongoing for the past almost 2,000 years. What Jesus said there is the same concept that Paul taught here:

Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Do you think Paul was talking about bodily resurrections here? He clearly was not. He was talking about when a person goes from being spiritually dead in their transgressions and sins to spiritually saved and alive in Christ. That is what Jesus was talking about in John 5:24-25 as well.

 

[Timtofly]

Again, he taught that they would be raised at the last trumpet when Christ returns. Has Christ returned yet? No. So, they have not been raised from the dead yet and you are believing something that is not taught anywhere in scripture. Simple as that.

If you insist on contradicting what Paul taught about this, then that is your choice and I can't stop you. It's just unfortunate that you choose to do that.

That is not what Paul taught. That is one verse that you use.

Paul taught that they already have physical bodies in 2 Corinthians 5:1.

That verse could mean the dead in Christ are those still alive on earth. They are the only ones that need to rise into the air. Paul states the rest come with Christ.

You cannot both come with Christ and rise from the earth at the same time. Those already in Paradise come with Christ. Those alive rise into the air.

Unless you think no one is currently with Christ in heaven, do you have a verse that states all the dead are not currently with Christ? They are only souls still in Abraham's bosom in sheol?

For one who needs other Scripture as corroboration, you sure hold to one verse as if it is the only verse Paul ever wrote.

Jesus clearly pointed out that after the Cross no soul would taste death ever again, who were in Him. The redeemed don't even technically physically die any more. They pass from death, directly into life. You claim they die and have to wait for some future resurrection to stop tasting death.

Yes some go through great agony at the point of death. That is not tasting death. That is the body being tortured prior to the point of death.

When Paul said the body is placed in the ground like a seed, that is symbolic, not literal. The body does not change in the ground, or waits for that body to turn into dust. The soul leaves one body, and immediately enters God's body in Paradise.

Jesus was not the Life, and Ressurection happens several thousand years later. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life when He called Lazarus out of the grave that day. That hour started at that point.

Being spiritually made whole with the putting on of the spirit is at the Second Coming. But that is not coming out of a grave. That is the dead in Christ still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, being changed in mid air, at the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

No, He did not repeat that twice. You are making Him out to be a fool who thought He had to repeat what He had just said. I assume you are talking about what He said here just prior to what He said in John 5:28-29.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Jesus was not talking about bodily resurrections here. He was talking about crossing over from spiritual death to spiritual life. That is what has been ongoing for the past almost 2,000 years. What Jesus said there is the same concept that Paul taught here:

Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Do you think Paul was talking about bodily resurrections here? He clearly was not. He was talking about when a person goes from being spiritually dead in their transgressions and sins to spiritually saved and alive in Christ. That is what Jesus was talking about in John 5:24-25 as well.

You make Jesus out to be a fool, and claim Lazarus was not resurrected at all.

 

[DavidPT]

But, did Jesus say that hours/times (plural) are coming when all of the dead will be raised or that a singular hour/time is coming when all of the dead will be raised? The latter, right?

I agree that the righteous/saved will be raised before the wicked/unsaved are raised, but Jesus strongly gave the impression that they would be raised at generally (but not necessarily exactly) the same time.

Here is the passage again:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is how it would read if your understanding of things was accurate:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hours are coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; In the first hour they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and in the second hour that will come long after that, they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Let's assume that that passage is involving the same 24 hour day. And let's assume that those have done good, they are raised 20 hours earlier than those that have done evil. Explain how even that involves a single hour rather than two different hours? Unless you can prove both resurrection events happen during the same hour, you don't have a valid dispute against what I'm arguing then.

What has to be taken into account, when the dead in Christ rise first, there are still the lost on the earth that Christ hasn't even confronted yet. And until Revelation 19:21 happens first, assuming there are no thousand years after the 2nd coming, obviously this means none of the lost can rise from the dead before all of the lost are all dead first. Which then means you need to prove, that after the dead in Christ have risen first, that before that literal 60 minutes are over, everything involving Revelation 19 pertaining to the beast and it's armies, all of these things have been fulfilled so that those that have done evil can rise during this same literal 60 minutes.

Unless you can prove all of that to be the case, you then can't keep insisting that that passage in John ch 5 is involving the same literal 60 minutes of time. Because, even if those that have done evil rise during the same 24 hour day as do those that have done good do, but that they rise hours later, no way does that equal they all rise during the same literal 60 minutes of time. If there can be a gap of hours between both resurrection events, there can also be a gap of years between both resurrection events. A gap is a gap no matter how you look at it. Someone rising several hours after someone else rising, is not the same thing as them all rising the same hour no matter how you look at it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Let's assume that that passage is involving the same 24 hour day. And let's assume that those have done good, they are raised 20 hours earlier than those that have done evil. Explain how even that involves a single hour rather than two different hours?

It wouldn't be a single hour in that case, but that isn't what I believe. I believe that the wicked dead will be resurrected very shortly after the righteous wicked are and it's all part of one event - the second coming of Christ.

Unless you can prove both resurrection events happen during the same hour, you don't have a valid dispute against what I'm arguing then.

How could you not already know that I believe one happens shortly after the other? I don't think Jesus is going to mess around once He descends from heaven. I believe things will happen in order at that point, but in quick succession. I've explained this to you before.

What has to be taken into account, when the dead in Christ rise first, there are still the lost on the earth that Christ hasn't even confronted yet. And until Revelation 19:21 happens first, assuming there are no thousand years after the 2nd coming, obviously this means none of the lost can rise from the dead before all of the lost are all dead first. Which then means you need to prove, that after the dead in Christ have risen first, that before that literal 60 minutes are over, everything involving Revelation 19 pertaining to the beast and it's armies, all of these things have been fulfilled so that those that have done evil can rise during this same literal 60 minutes.

Why do I have to prove this? Is Jesus just going to hang around in the air when He comes and mess around for several hours before getting the job done that He's coming to do? I don't understand what you're talking about here. Once He comes, things will happen very quickly. Is there any reason to think otherwise, especially when you consider that all believers bodies will be changed in a moment when He comes at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:51-52)?

 

[Trivalee]

Of course these verses have a literal meaning. The stars are symbolic terms for the angels. There are no physical stars at all. The angels are the only creations in the firmament. They shine their light to make up the heavens we know today. When they all come to earth there will not be any lights in the sky. That is the new heaven. No stars, or a totally different arrangement of light. The angels were created on the 4th Day to be the lights in the sky. Angels are physically created beings with the task of being physical lights. We are not looking at spiritual lights faking reality. We are looking at angels whose job is to be a physical light.

When the heavens roll up as a scroll, that is symbolic for the angels coming to earth and their performance placed on hold. On earth they will appear as humans as always.

You need to read your bible with discernment to stop making unfounded claims! Who told you the stars were created on "the 4th day to shine their light to make up the heavens?" The true account is that all the angels including Lucifer were created long before the earth was created and lived with God in eternity past. Lucifer had already rebelled against God long before Adam and Eve were created. If they (angels) were created on the 4th day as you claim, you must explain when Lucifer sinned.

It bothers me that you make up stories that have nothing to do with scripture as you go along. Where did you read that when the angels are cast down to earth, there will be no light in the sky? This is junk doctrine. What happened to the glory of the Lord as a light that outshines the sun and the moon? Read Isaiah 60:1-2 and Rev21:23

 

[Trivalee]

Was Adam and Eve flesh and blood prior to Adam's disobedience?

What is it with flesh and blood?

Paul stated corruptible and incorruptible. An incorruptible body is no different than a corruptible one when it comes to flesh and blood. A corruptible body could never nor ever be allowed in Paradise. Flesh and blood was always in Paradise or the Garden. Flesh and blood does not mean corruptible. The point is no one is born with an incorruptible body now, because we are all genetic copies of Adam and Eve in their corruptible state.

Those in the Millennium will have flesh and blood bodies that are permanent and incorruptible. They will have offspring born in their image without sin natures. These are those beheaded who are given new permanent incorruptible physical bodies. The sheep and wheat from the final harvest while Jesus and the angels are on the earth after the Second Coming are also changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh into God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies.

No one in an incorruptible body will be capable to reproduce. Read Matt 22:30.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Who are Gog and Magog in the book of Revelation and Ezekiel? They represent the peoples and nations in this present promised age that try to conquer the children of God in the free nations their influence founded, but fail. This is a pretty easy prophecy to see fulfilled in history.

The Bible is explicit in its prophecy in Daniel and Revelation that there would be an age measured by four empires where believers everywhere would be oppressed, made war against and overcome. The four empires are named: Babylon, Medo\Persia, Greece and Rome in Daniel and Revelation. This is not disputable. The promised age that over a hundred chapters of prophecy is devoted to was to follow the destruction of the fourth empire. What brought this promised age about was the Bible getting into the hands of the general public starting right when the fourth empire fell. The Bible’s prophecy goes as far as giving us a date over 2000 years in advance when the fourth empire would fall. In Daniel 7 it says there would be an eleventh of ten emperors who would make war with the saints and overcome them for a time, two times and a half time. This number, 1260 is repeated in Revelation in relation to the time of the rule of the Roman Empire 5 times. Revelation tells us who the ten emperors are by telling us the eighth of the first seven is the son of destruction, or the prince in Daniel 9 that would destroy Jerusalem. That was Titus. From the first year of the age of these four gentile empires when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea to the year Titus destroyed Jerusalem was that infamous number, 666 years. That number is revealed to us in Revelation’s prophecy of the Roman Empire’s division into an eastern and western branch and claims of Christianity. The next emperor after Titus is the first of the ten emperors of Daniel 7. The 11th of that ten is Septimius Severus who fulfilled Daniel 7’s prophecy about him precisely. From the first year of his reign 193AD to the end of the Roman Empire in 1453 AD is exactly 1260 years, just as the Bible foretold.

Now to Gog and Magog. Revelation 19 was a prophecy of the coming of the Lord at the end of the age of these four gentile empires to fulfill the prophecy of the promised age. Revelation 20 is a prophecy of this promised age. Satan being bound and loosed is an illustration of the loss of his influence over the affairs of the nations due to the influenced of the Gospel and kingdom of God. The thousand years is an illustration of the kingdom of God filling the earth in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7. The sea, death and hell giving up their dead is an illustration of the billions of people coming to Christ in this age. The lake of fire is an illustration of the end of the rule of death and hell over the nations. Now I go over these things in great detail in my book, The Bible’s Prophecy About The Free World.” Don’t think for a minute I am avoiding issues in this little post. Gog and Magog are the nations, peoples, political movements, dangerous and destructive ideologies who try to stop the expansion of the influence of the invisible kingdom of God in this promised era. That would include empires like the British Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon’s Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Kaisers and later the Nazi empires, The Imperial Japanese Empire, the Communist Empire. You see the difference in the age of the gentiles verses this promised age is that the bad guys always won and conquered the saints. In this age, even with all the setbacks the nations most influenced by the Bible beat back the bad guys and the free world continues to get bigger because as the next two chapters Revelation reveal: The river and tree’s of life which are illustrations of God’s Word and the Holy Spirit are working through God’s people illustrated as the New Jerusalem that are healing the nations. This is just as the prophecy of the reign of the messiah’s invisible kingdom on earth in Psalm 72 said. “3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. 4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.” You see there are the poor and needy and oppressors during the messiah’s reign. Gogs and Magogs so to speak. But he in his own time is using the mountains and hills which in this case are an illustration of the nations under the influence of the saints and the Bibles principles to crush the oppressors of mankind. To crush Gog and Magog, which is just what the prophecies in Revelation and Ezekiel say. They will be destroyed by “fire from heaven.” But notice how it says they surround the camp of the saints. You know what that means? It means it looks like they are going to win, it always does, does it not? Looks like they are going to win right now also? Preaching to myself here, take heart.

Isaiah 29 18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. 19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20 For the terrible one [the oppressors of mankind] is brought to naught, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: Been happening since the general public (illegally) began to get their own Bibles to read 570 years ago.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Who are Gog and Magog in the book of Revelation and Ezekiel? They represent the peoples and nations in this present promised age that try to conquer the children of God in the free nations their influence founded, but fail. This is a pretty easy prophecy to see fulfilled in history.

Of course, Dispensational Premillennialism liked us to believe that the army of Gog and Magog refers to geopolitical nations against the nation of Israel in the Middle East. This is not what Scripture talks about.

Eze 38:9​

(9) Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.​

As we come to Ezekiel 38 and verse 9 God is speaking of Gog and Magog, the army of unsaved professed Christians being drawn to the great battle of Armageddon at the end of the New Testament Era, after the ministry of Two Witnesses (Church) is finished. We realize that this is certainly not a light statement to make and we must not be reckless or hasty in making a statement of this magnitude. However, we feel that we are absolutely on the right track as we follow scripture to its proper conclusion and can see the abundant and unwavering scriptural proofs that this batter at the end of the age is certainly NOT a physical war in any sense of the imagination involving Russia and Iran. This is the battle at the end of time for the souls of mankind. God tells us that He will metaphorically put hooks in the jaws of Gog and Magog and will bring them forth upon the mountains of Israel (Church, not nation Israel) for this horrific battle against the evils that now reside within the fallen global corporate church. God's judgment upon the ONCE FAITHFUL HOUSE OF GOD takes place directly within the global church of Jesus Christ that has now transcended into the great harlot dominated by today's false prophets and christs which is symbolized by the Old Testament world of Babylon. The fallen church is NOW the Mystery Babylon of Scripture (Revelation 18) and as such she has certainly opened her doors and alters widely (the gates of Jerusalem) and has embraced with open arms with the humanistic and liberal world of Babylon. Yet many Christians of the New Testament congregations will deny that God would judge their churches. Sounds familiar?

Lam 4:12​

(12) The kings of the earth, and all the inhabitants of the world, would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of Jerusalem.​

This, my friend, is the "ONE HOUR" of New Testament eschatology:

Rev 18:10​

(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.​

Rev 18:17​

(17) For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,​

​

Rev 18:19​

(19) And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.​

The Scripture tells us that Satan, who have been cast down and restrained since the Cross so God could build His Church, will then be released for a "little season" at the conclusion of the New Testament Era:

Rev 20:3​

(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

Keep in mind that this "little season" is indeed the time of judgment for the unfaithful corporate church worldwide! This is the purpose for God releasing Satan at the end of time, to allow him to deceive those within the congregation who have not yet been sealed by God with counterfeit Christianity which "IS" the Abomination of Desolation, Revelation 9. Also note that this "little season" is a relatively short span of time wherein Satan's forces (Gog and Magog) will at their height be given ONE HOUR in which to overcome the Saints and totally reign as kings with Satan and to give their power and authority over to him!

Rev 17:12-14​

(12) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.​

(13) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.​

(14) These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.​

This is the little horn fo Satan - a short period of power. Satan is loosed at the closing of the Church Age, after God has sealed all of His Elect first, for the purpose of being a tool of God (hooks in his jaws) in which to judge the harlot corporate church WORLDWIDE. This constitutes the "making war with the Lamb" and as unfaithful as the global church has become, it nevertheless is still the outward representation of Christ here on Earth! It is the visible church of Jesus Christ while the invisible true Church of Jesus Christ has fled to the mountains of God in obedience to God's Word, Revelation 18:4 and Matthew 24:15-16. Satan and his counterfeit Christian forces of God and Magog will reign together with ONE MIND for this symbolical ONE HOUR in which to bring about or gather the enemies and to ascend "AS A STORM" and "AS A CLOUD" (Ezxekiel 39:9) over the corporate church of Jesus Christ (the New Testament mountains of Israel). Their purpose? To wear out the Saints (Two Witnesses) of the Most High by silencing God's Word to the world and thus spiritually slaying His Two Witnesses, the TRUE and INVISIBLE church of christ, within the visible and corporate churches all over the world.

Rev 17:16-18​

(16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.​

(17) For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.​

(18) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.​

These ten horns must be a figure of Satan's end-time army of Gog and Magog as they are given temporary and short-lived power (little horn) to fulfill God's Will. They accomplish this age-old task by discretely but rapidly coming into the global church of Jesus Christ for the purpose of diluting and polluting the True Word of God and thus turning the corporate church's doctrines into false doctrines of wormwood. The army of Gog and Magog, wearing the same clothing and weapons similar to Christians' Eph 6 armor and weapons, approach the church as "angels of Light," (2nd Corinthians 11:14-15). They hate the harlot for who she once represented. They will make her (corporate church turned harlot) desolate and spiritually naked, Revelation 17:6 tells us. They will spiritually eat her flesh and burn her with FIRE, Revelation 17:6. Is this not the same language as what we read concerning the harlot in Revelation 18? Of course, it is!

Rev 18:8​

(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.​

Here we see again the Little Season in view as being a short span of time allowed to Satan for the purpose of desecrating or making desolate (Abomination of Desolation) the corporate harlot church. Gog and Magog will rule for One Hour with Satan and will hate the harlot (the corporate church), and therefore shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire, all in perfect accordance with God's Will.

Rev 17:17​

(17) For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast until the words of God shall be fulfilled.​

Yes, God has put hooks into the jaws of Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38:4), out of the bottomless pit, after He finished building his church with both true (saved) and professed (unsaved) Christians inside her for the purpose of carrying out His final judgment upon the New Testament House of God FIRSTLY, before Christ returns (1 Peter 4:17).

Therefore, the army of Gog and Magog is not some physical armies of the world that will invade Israel in the Middle East, but rather a multitudes of false prophets and christs with the spirit of antichrists (smoke locusts from bottomless pit) into the church to deceive those who have not yet been sealed and making their churches the home of these devils...as God's judgment upon this unfaithful harlot. This is why God has called His people (true Christians/two witnesses) to stand up and come out of her to avoid the plagues.

I believe it is happening right now.

@Spiritual Jew

 

[Timtofly]

You need to read your bible with discernment to stop making unfounded claims! Who told you the stars were created on "the 4th day to shine their light to make up the heavens?" The true account is that all the angels including Lucifer were created long before the earth was created and lived with God in eternity past. Lucifer had already rebelled against God long before Adam and Eve were created. If they (angels) were created on the 4th day as you claim, you must explain when Lucifer sinned.

It bothers me that you make up stories that have nothing to do with scripture as you go along. Where did you read that when the angels are cast down to earth, there will be no light in the sky? This is junk doctrine. What happened to the glory of the Lord as a light that outshines the sun and the moon? Read Isaiah 60:1-2 and Rev21:23

Genesis 1:14-19 bothers you?

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Now why are you posting about made up human fantasy about a creation prior to Genesis 1?

Genesis 1 is not a made up story, but the Word of God. That is where I learned what I posted.

Did I post the light is gone? I posted that when the angels are on earth, no one will see them shine as stars in the firmament. Unless you think they can be two places at the same time. I was talking about the Second Coming in Revelation 6.

 

[Timtofly]

No one in an incorruptible body will be capable to reproduce. Read Matt 22:30.

That already happened at the Cross for those currently in Paradise. They are not filling up Paradise with babies over the last 1993 years.

The Millennium on earth will have offspring like Aadam and Eve would have had, had they not disobeyed God. Paradise is still full of their offspring, and Paradise will be their home during the Millennium.

No one already in Paradise will come and live on the earth.

But those on earth will have offspring in permanent incorruptible physical bodies.
The only one's resurrected are those beheaded. Those firstfruits in the GT are not killed and resurrected. They are changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as all the other redeemed are. But they don't go to Paradise. They populate the earth. Paradise was populated from birthing offspring while they were on earth in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

That restriction is not on those living on the earth, only on those living in Paradise, who already accomplished that on earth.

 

[Trivalee]

That already happened at the Cross for those currently in Paradise. They are not filling up Paradise with babies over the last 1993 years.

The Millennium on earth will have offspring like Aadam and Eve would have had, had they not disobeyed God. Paradise is still full of their offspring, and Paradise will be their home during the Millennium.

No one already in Paradise will come and live on the earth.

But those on earth will have offspring in permanent incorruptible physical bodies.
The only one's resurrected are those beheaded. Those firstfruits in the GT are not killed and resurrected. They are changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as all the other redeemed are. But they don't go to Paradise. They populate the earth. Paradise was populated from birthing offspring while they were on earth in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

That restriction is not on those living on the earth, only on those living in Paradise, who already accomplished that on earth.

You said: "No one already in Paradise will come and live on the earth." My question is, where is paradise? We know the Lord will be on earth during the millennium, so where do you reckon that the saints will be during that time, if not with Christ?

And finally, no one in an incorruptible body will be able to reproduce!!!

 

[Trivalee]

Genesis 1:14-19 bothers you?

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Now why are you posting about made up human fantasy about a creation prior to Genesis 1?

Genesis 1 is not a made up story, but the Word of God. That is where I learned what I posted.

Did I post the light is gone? I posted that when the angels are on earth, no one will see them shine as stars in the firmament. Unless you think they can be two places at the same time. I was talking about the Second Coming in Revelation 6.

The glory of the Lord is the light of the world.

 

[Timtofly]

You said: "No one already in Paradise will come and live on the earth." My question is, where is paradise? We know the Lord will be on earth during the millennium, so where do you reckon that the saints will be during that time, if not with Christ?

And finally, no one in an incorruptible body will be able to reproduce!!!

Verse that states the Lord is only on the earth, and not both places.

Adam and Eve did. But you will probably deny that as well. The sons of God did. You think the sons of God had Adam's dead flesh, or incorruptible physical bodies?

Paradise does not need procreation, and that is why, there has been none since the resurrection at the Cross, for those OT redeemed in Paradise.

Certainly there is no procreation in the LOF. Jesus did not stipulate a body type. He stipulated life in Paradise after the resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

The glory of the Lord is the light of the world.

You asked when angels were created, not if God is the light of the world.

Paradise is in heaven per Paul. The word Paradise is only found 3 times in the NT. It should not be that hard to do a word study, and figure out what and where Paradise is.

In the next creation, Paradise is changed into a cube, called the New Jerusalem. A 1200 miles Square Cube. That is where the tree of life will be when the heavens and earth, all of creation, is handed back to God. Then those who were waiting in Paradise will descend in the New Jerusalem.

Right now the tree of life is in Paradise, and Paradise is in heaven. The Tree of Life will not be on earth in the Millennium either. If you think that is wrong, then provide Scripture to the contrary.

 

[Trivalee]

Verse that states the Lord is only on the earth, and not both places.

Adam and Eve did. But you will probably deny that as well. The sons of God did. You think the sons of God had Adam's dead flesh, or incorruptible physical bodies?

Paradise does not need procreation, and that is why, there has been none since the resurrection at the Cross, for those OT redeemed in Paradise.

Certainly there is no procreation in the LOF. Jesus did not stipulate a body type. He stipulated life in Paradise after the resurrection.

I'm struggling to understand what you're talking about, sorry.