God's Word and God's creation - both intended for God's glory.

[BCP1928]

Not denouncing. If I have in any way, I ask for your forgiveness. I am only challenging you to address what Scripture actually says. As a Christian, I have no qualms about my faith being challenged. Open dialogue doesn't intimidate me. And again, ad nauseum, the title of this Forum is Creation And Evolution. As long as the Evolution side feels free to quote and revere Darwin (or whoever), I choose to exercise equal right to quote and revere The Creator.

And this is the LAST time I will defend my right to do so, here or anywhere.

What I also won't repent of is my claim that the Theory Of Evolution is a godless religion. The proof couldn't be more obvious - where does the Theory lead one - toward God or away? Considering the vociferous opposition to God and His Word demonstrated on all these threads, the answer is clear.

Yes, you're in a tough position. The notion that the theory of evolution denies the existence of God may be motivation for you to oppose it, but as an argument against it, it is of little use. Too many people understand evolution as neither affirming or denying the existence of God. that it is no more "godless" than any other scientific theory. Of course, the theory of evolution impinges upon the particular theology of a particular subset of theists. but then you are put in the position of having to argue that all other theologies are wrong. Good luck with that.

 

[AV1611VET]

The notion that the theory of evolution denies the existence of God may be motivation for you to oppose it, but as an argument against it, it is of little use.

Frankly, I get tired of hearing this.

If your mom was in labor with you for six hours, and this was all meticulously documented in the hospital's records ... and I came along and said:

"No. She was in labor for six days and gave birth to someone who then gave birth to you. And the hospital's records are not to be taken literally."

Would you consider me to be off my rocker?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Frankly, I get tired of hearing this.

If your mom was in labor with you for six hours, and this was all meticulously documented in the hospital's records ... and I came along and said:

"No. She was in labor for six days and gave birth to someone who then gave birth to you. And the hospital's records are not to be taken literally."

Would you consider me to be off my rocker?

If you said that, yes.

HOWEVER that is not the same thing at all as you or others who want to take the Bible 100% literally, even when it contradicts God's own creation and the evidenced history of the world. And especially when it contradicts God's own creation and the evidenced history of the world in your own special case.

 

[Astrid]

Yes, you're in a tough position. The notion that the theory of evolution denies the existence of God may be motivation for you to oppose it, but as an argument against it, it is of little use. Too many people understand evolution as neither affirming or denying the existence of God. that it is no more "godless" than any other scientific theory. Of course, the theory of evolution impinges upon the particular theology of a particular subset of theists. but then you are put in the position of having to argue that all other theologies are wrong. Good luck with that.

That and more! Much more.

It calls on the deniers to have infallible interpreting’
power when they read the Bible.

To effortlessly and with no education in any related field,
no facts / data of any sort, to still know more,
understand science better than any researcher on earth.

Those and still far more.

Like immunity to consideration of bearing false witness
and taking the name of Cod in vain.

I for one, having been falsely maligned as “ opposed to God and His word”.

I could go into detail how that makes no sense, but-

IMO the ones TRULY opposed to all thst is good, true, and real
are those who bend scripture mean something as demonstrably false
as reading it to mean Pi really- really is 3.000, or the earth is flat.

Atheist I may be, but that doesn’t mean I like to see Christianity,
an inherent.y noble and good faith sullied with / by such
arrogance, ignorance and irrationality.

My interest here is the total opposite to what the bitter
clingers here accuse me of.

 

[Joseph G]

I don’t think anyone is actually anti evolution as
they don't even know what it is.

More likely it’s all about ego, vanity, belief in
self as an infallible bible interpreter.

It's not about us, Astrid, it's about Jesus...

John 7:14-18 NIV

"Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. The Jews there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning without having been taught?”

"Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

Each of us have an agenda on who we seek to glorify - in our discussions about any topic - including creation and science.

One elevates God the Creator and His Son Jesus, the other elevates a creation of God - science - and confers credit and glory upon man.

Considering Jesus' track record in what He accomplished by doing the will of the Father, compared to man's track record in how he still treats his fellow man - I'll take Jesus.

How many different ways can you interpret pure Love when you see Him?

Believing what God says about creation - and thus through it - is easy once one has witnessed His greatest miracle of all - changing a human heart.

God bless!

Ezekiel 36:26 NIV

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

biblegateway.com

 

[dlamberth]

What I also won't repent of is my claim that the Theory Of Evolution is a godless religion. The proof couldn't be more obvious - where does the Theory lead one - toward God or away?

I don't know about that. Evolution, for many is how God creates new life. That puts God right into the center of existence. The blessings that we see and experience all around us as we see this creative activity of God has a way drawing out a Thankfulness and appreciation from how Life has evolved and continues to evolve with infinite potential of new forms.

 

[Astrid]

It's not about us, Astrid, it's about Jesus...

John 7:14-18 NIV

"Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. The Jews there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning without having been taught?”

"Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

Each of us have an agenda on who we seek to glorify - in our discussions about any topic - including creation and science.

One elevates God the Creator and His Son Jesus, the other elevates a creation of God - science - and confers credit and glory upon man.

Considering Jesus' track record in what He accomplished by doing the will of the Father, compared to man's track record in how he still treats his fellow man - I'll take Jesus.

How many different ways can you interpret pure Love when you see Him?

Believing what God says about creation - and thus through it - is easy once one has witnessed His greatest miracle of all - changing a human heart.

God bless!

Ezekiel 36:26 NIV

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

biblegateway.com

What could be more about you than your claim
to know more than any scientist or educated
person on earth?

Best you not try to loop too many others into
your “us”, and for sure leave me out.

As for your chosen readings, and denial
of clear facts x making up your own-

The deeper you dig, the harder to repent,
so I expect you will resist educating yourself.

See above, “ sullied with ignorance and irrationality”.

 

[BCP1928]

It's not about us, Astrid, it's about Jesus...

No doubt, and I'm sure you mean well. But the impression you are giving is that it is about you and your hermenuetic and that we can't believe in or know God without it.

 

[Astrid]

I don't know about that. Evolution, for many is how God creates new life. That puts God right into the center of existence. The blessings that we see and experience all around us as we see this creative activity of God has a way drawing out a Thankfulness and appreciation from how Life has evolved and continues to evolve with infinite potential of new forms.

There was a time they said math took people away from God.

 

[Joseph G]

In my opinion, every scientist on earth should be familiar with John 9.

Awesome referral, AV. Hang in there!

John 9:39
"Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

 

[Aaron112]

I can sum up John 9 with one of my favorite pictures:

VOICE
Eternal One: Call to Me, and I will answer you. I will tell you of great things, things beyond what you can imagine, things you could never have known.

 

[Aaron112]

where does the Theory lead one - toward God or away?

Not only always away, IF they were near God before (very unlikely if not impossible),
but if anyone puts their trust in men, God curses them, so they are lead away from God and cursed by God both.

 

[Joseph G]

Not only always away, IF they were near God before (very unlikely if not impossible),
but if anyone puts their trust in men, God curses them, so they are lead away from God and cursed by God both.

Totally agree, Aaron, and don't I know it. I know all about making mere men into idols - ie: whose words one fills their minds with over God's Word - and the utter deception thereof.

I'm the ultimate prodigal son, yet the Lord was pleased to have mercy on me and come back and snatch me back, saving me from that curse. I know full well the spell cast over those who listen to and follow false idols.

Thus my fervor to appeal to anyone and everyone to receive that same mercy, while they still draw breath, no matter how much they may be offended by me - but more importantly by Jesus and His Word. He did say we would be hated because He is hated - just gotta hang wid it and remain cool. Love means telling the truth - including pointing out God's clear fingerprints in His creation.

I used to ridicule Christians and His love broke through anyways. Why not extend the same opportunity to everybody else, eh?

God bless!

 

[Aaron112]

He Says that two thirds of mankind does that ? They refuse to repent ?

I know full well the spell cast over those who listen to and follow false idols.

Do you remember where in Scripture, God's Own Word,

 

[Joseph G]

He Says that two thirds of mankind does that ? They refuse to repent ?

Do you remember where in Scripture, God's Own Word,

Could it be this one you're thinking about?

Zechariah 13:8 NIV
"In the whole land," declares the LORD, "two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it."

I kinda doubt this is it, though, because it is addressed specifically to the house of David. I haven't been able to find a number anywhere else in Scripture. Please advise if you do.

All I know is, in reference to how many souls repent and how many do not - in the final tally - the news is bad and good. I'm sure you already know which Scriptures I'm referring to...

The bad news:

Matthew 7:13-14 NIV
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

The good news - Heaven will be well populated irregardless:

Revelation 7:9-10 NIV
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

God bless!

 

[Aaron112]

KJ21 And the rest of the men, who were not killed by these plagues,
yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils,


and idols of gold and silver, and brass and stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

-----------------------------
15So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

 

[Joseph G]

15So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

This is referring to an end-time plague, right? End times is definitely not my forte. So let me ask, aren't there people who die before and after this plague? Isn't the 1/3 specific to this plague, such that the percentage, tragically, is even higher?

I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to the total percentage over the course of the entirety of human history.

 

[Joseph G]

This is referring to an end-time plague, right? End times is definitely not my forte. So let me ask, aren't there people who die before and after this plague? Isn't the 1/3 specific to this plague, such that the percentage, tragically, is even higher?

I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to the total percentage over the course of the entirety of human history.

Ah... you answered in your edit. Nevermind!

 

[dlamberth]

What I also won't repent of is my claim that the Theory Of Evolution is a godless religion. The proof couldn't be more obvious - where does the Theory lead one - toward God or away? Considering the vociferous opposition to God and His Word demonstrated on all these threads, the answer is clear.

For this Lover of God, Evolution has very much led me towards God in a very major way. It's opened my awareness to the infinite Creating power of the Divine with in Life itSelf. A Divine Creating force, which is God Himself, forever and ever and always forever is Creating! And we are so totally blessed to have the window of Evolution into which we can see how God does Create new life forms.

I often think where the opposition starts is mostly directed towards religion and witnessing the actions of believers than it is to God. God becomes collateral damage as a result. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Not denouncing. If I have in any way, I ask for your forgiveness. I am only challenging you to address what Scripture actually says. As a Christian, I have no qualms about my faith being challenged. Open dialogue doesn't intimidate me. And again, ad nauseum, the title of this Forum is Creation And Evolution. As long as the Evolution side feels free to quote and revere Darwin (or whoever), I choose to exercise equal right to quote and revere The Creator.

And this is the LAST time I will defend my right to do so, here or anywhere.

What I also won't repent of is my claim that the Theory Of Evolution is a godless religion. The proof couldn't be more obvious - where does the Theory lead one - toward God or away? Considering the vociferous opposition to God and His Word demonstrated on all these threads, the answer is clear.

I would love for you to show how the theory of evolution is a religion.