God's will

holyrokker · Mar 17, 2007

Peter is writing to believers. Why would the "all" who should come to repentance be refering to believers? Who needs to come to repentance is not those who do not believe?

And, no - I am not trying to use those verses from Ezekiel as "prooftexts".

The context of Ezekiel 18 is the way God deals with individuals. He is saying that He does not condemn a man for his father's sins, nor honor a man for his father's righteousness.

In verses 30 and 31 He is admonishing individuals to turn from their sin. It is CLEARLY His will that individuals repent and turn to Him.

Phileoeklogos · Mar 17, 2007

PrincetonGuy said:
In chapters 41-42 of Job, God is speaking; in chapter 42, vv. 1-6, Job is speaking. In Job 42:10 the author of the Book of Job writes,

The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold. (NASB, 1995)

Notice the word when (Hebrew = ב&#1468. When Job prayed for his friends, the LORD restored the fortunes of Job. Was the restoration of Job conditional upon his first praying for his friends? This verse suggests that it was.

Job was certainly not a Christian and apparently not a Jew because he was a sheikh who lived to the east of the land of Israel. In other words, Job was a heathen and thus his theology was probably somewhere off center of reality. Indeed, his theology in Job 45:2 directly contradicts Christian theology as given to us by Mark in his gospel,

6:1. Jesus went out from there and *came into His hometown; and His disciples *followed Him.
2. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
3. "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.
4. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."
5. And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6. And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching. (NASB, 1995)

Mark here writes that Jesus could not perform many miracles in His hometown because the people there did not believe in him and were offended by him. Therefore, we have two choices:

1. Jesus is not God

or

2. Gods ability to perform miracles is at least sometimes conditional upon the belief of men.

I vote for choice #2.

Actually we have a third possibility, any limitations on displays of God's grace are self imposed. Lazarus was having a " low faith " day right before he walked out of the tomb, if you notice in verse 5, Jesus healed a few sick people, somehow I just have to think He could have done more if He had so pleased.

As far as Job's restoration being conditioned upon his prayer, I don't see that in the text at all, Job's restoration was only more of the grace he had received before his testing, what was conditioned upon Job's prayer was Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar not being dealt with according to their folly.

And if Job contradicts christian theology in Job 42:2, we need a different theology.

JPPT1974 · Mar 17, 2007

We are only made right with God
And forgiven of our sins
Only when we accept Christ as Savior & Lord
In hopes of turning away from our sins
To do them no more.

Salamon · Mar 17, 2007

PrincetonGuy said:
No, of course not! He gave to man the freedom to obey Him or disobey Him.

Yes, of course! Men can and do sin. Every time a man sins we have absolute and incontrovertible proof that God’s will does NOT always happen.

The God that I believe in is the God of the Bible, but He is not the god of your mistaken understanding of the Bible.

I do not believe that God inspired Adam to eat the forbidden fruit so that He could send His only begotten and sinless Son into the world to suffer the incomparable agony of the cross to undo some of the damage caused by Adam eating the forbidden fruit. I believe that God told Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, knowing the damage the eating of it would cause, but that Adam disobeyed God, resisting His will, and ultimately brought about all of the sin and misery of the world.

Gen. 2:15. Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
16. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17. but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Gen. 3:1. Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2. The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3. but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
4. The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
5. "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Matt. 27:27. Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole Roman cohort around Him.
28. They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him.
29. And after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand; and they knelt down before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
30. They spat on Him, and took the reed and began to beat Him on the head.
31. After they had mocked Him, they took the scarlet robe off Him and put His own garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him.
32. As they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross.
33. And when they came to a place called Golgotha, which means Place of a Skull,
34. they gave Him wine to drink mixed with gall; and after tasting it, He was unwilling to drink.
35. And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves by casting lots.
36. And sitting down, they began to keep watch over Him there.
37. And above His head they put up the charge against Him which read, "THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS."
38. At that time two robbers *were crucified with Him, one on the right and one on the left.
39. And those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads
40. and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross."
41. In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking Him and saying,
42. "He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe in Him.
43. "HE TRUSTS IN GOD; LET GOD RESCUE Him now, IF HE DELIGHTS IN HIM; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.' "
44. The robbers who had been crucified with Him were also insulting Him with the same words.
45. Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.
46. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
47. And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, began saying, "This man is calling for Elijah."
48. Immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.
49. But the rest of them said, "Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him."
50. And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. (NASB, 1995)

Let me ask you something please! If sin is outside of Gods control who has control of sin?? And if sin can defeat Gods will then can God be defeated?? Also I know you think Gods will does not always happen so I have this question do you think God is omniscient? All knowing?

PS- I do not want to turn this into an argument so not to point any fingers at anyone because it hasn't happened yet. But let us remember to Glorify God in how we respond to each other!
Also I think that this is an important view point that should be cleared up and I ask that both sides mine included not only argue their point but also look into the others! Even if we know or think we are right!

PrincetonGuy · Mar 18, 2007

mlqurgw said:
This is one of the most misused and ripped out of its context passages quoted against the truth of God's free grace. The "any" is referring to the "us Peter is writing to and in its context doesn't apply to all men without exception.

This is ridiculously false. In the Greek sentence from which this is translated, the Greek word τινας is an unqualified pronominal adjective meaning any. Therefore, it cannot be interpreted to be referring to any class of persons distinct from all persons. Hence Richard J Bauckham writes regarding 2 Peter 3:9 in his commentary on the Greek text of this epistle, God desires all, without exception, to repent and escape damnation. And of course the context here absolutely eliminates any other interpretation because this passage is about the objection of some that the Lord is slow about His promise of the coming of the day of God, a world-wide event that is being delayed because the Lord is patient toward you, not wishing for any [in the entire world] to perish but for all [everywhere] to come to repentance.

Ezekiel 18:23. "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 33:11. "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

mlqurgw said:
These 2 passages in their context show the insanity of unbelief. God does not get some sadistic pleasure from the death of the wicked. The word pleasure can be translated satisfaction. Neither, when understood properly in their context, teach anything that dispute the truth that God's will is always done.

These two verses prove that it is the will of God that the wicked should repent and live, but we know from the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the history of the world that the will of God is all too often thwarted by men.

mlqurgw said:
This is called prooftexting and it is not an accepted method of hermeneutics. It is making the Bible say what you want it to say without regard to either context or the teaching of the whole of Scripture.
There is a saying, " Any text taken out of its context becomes a pretext."

This could not possible be further from the truth! Every work of systematic theology that I have in my home library, and I have many of them representing a very broad spectrum of creeds and denominations, uses prooftexting (correctly known as citing verses) as evidence for their theological position.

PrincetonGuy · Mar 18, 2007

Phileoeklogos said:
Actually we have a third possibility, any limitations on displays of God's grace are self imposed. Lazarus was having a " low faith " day right before he walked out of the tomb, if you notice in verse 5, Jesus healed a few sick people, somehow I just have to think He could have done more if He had so pleased.

Mark 6:1. Jesus went out from there and *came into His hometown; and His disciples *followed Him.
2. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
3. "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.
4. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."
5. And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6. And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching. (NASB, 1995)

Mark says that the ability of Jesus to do miracles in his hometown was limited by the peoples lack of belief in Himthat is NOT self-imposed limitation but limitation imposed by the people!

Mark here writes that Jesus could not perform many miracles in His hometown because the people there did not believe in him and were offended by him, and yet you believe that he could have? I believe Mark; who do you believe?

Phileoeklogos said:
And if Job contradicts christian theology in Job 42:2, we need a different theology.

There is an abundance of a different theology in this thread! You can believe a heathen sheikh if you want to; I prefer to believe what Mark says in his gospel.

PrincetonGuy · Mar 18, 2007

spsucj said:
Does God's will always happen?

There are basically two views here:

1. The wrong view

2. The Biblical view

The Bible says that in many situations people rebel against God and do their thing (that which they will to do) instead of Gods thing (that which God wills them to do). The Bible also says that it is man, not God, who decides who will rebel and who will not. Many hundreds of passages could be cited here to incontrovertibly prove that this is true, but rather than burden you with hundreds of them, I shall post just a few of them.

Deut. 9:7. "Remember, do not forget how you provoked the LORD your God to wrath in the wilderness; from the day that you left the land of Egypt until you arrived at this place, you have been rebellious against the LORD.
8. "Even at Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, and the LORD was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you.
9. "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the LORD had made with you, then I remained on the mountain forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water.
10. "The LORD gave me the two tablets of stone written by the finger of God; and on them were all the words which the LORD had spoken with you at the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly.
11. "It came about at the end of forty days and nights that the LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.
12. "Then the LORD said to me, 'Arise, go down from here quickly, for your people whom you brought out of Egypt have acted corruptly. They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them; they have made a molten image for themselves.'
13. "The LORD spoke further to me, saying, 'I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people.
14. 'Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they.'
15. "So I turned and came down from the mountain while the mountain was burning with fire, and the two tablets of the covenant were in my two hands.
16. "And I saw that you had indeed sinned against the LORD your God. You had made for yourselves a molten calf; you had turned aside quickly from the way which the LORD had commanded you.
17. "I took hold of the two tablets and threw them from my hands and smashed them before your eyes.
18. "I fell down before the LORD, as at the first, forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all your sin which you had committed in doing what was evil in the sight of the LORD to provoke Him to anger.
19. "For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure with which the LORD was wrathful against you in order to destroy you, but the LORD listened to me that time also.
20. "The LORD was angry enough with Aaron to destroy him; so I also prayed for Aaron at the same time.
21. "I took your sinful thing, the calf which you had made, and burned it with fire and crushed it, grinding it very small until it was as fine as dust; and I threw its dust into the brook that came down from the mountain.
22. "Again at Taberah and at Massah and at Kibroth-hattaavah you provoked the LORD to wrath.
23. "When the LORD sent you from Kadesh- barnea, saying, 'Go up and possess the land which I have given you,' then you rebelled against the command of the LORD your God; you neither believed Him nor listened to His voice.
24. "You have been rebellious against the LORD from the day I knew you.

Psalms 68:6. God makes a home for the lonely; He leads out the prisoners into prosperity, Only the rebellious dwell in a parched land.

Psalms 78:8. And not be like their fathers, A stubborn and rebellious generation, A generation that did not prepare its heart And whose spirit was not faithful to God.

Isa. 30:1. "Woe to the rebellious children," declares the LORD, "Who execute a plan, but not Mine, And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin;
2. Who proceed down to Egypt Without consulting Me, To take refuge in the safety of Pharaoh And to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt!

Isa. 65:2. "I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in the way which is not good, following their own thoughts,
3. A people who continually provoke Me to My face, Offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on bricks;
4. Who sit among graves and spend the night in secret places; Who eat swine's flesh, And the broth of unclean meat is in their pots.

Jer. 5:22. 'Do you not fear Me?' declares the LORD. 'Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it.
23. 'But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; They have turned aside and departed.
24. 'They do not say in their heart, "Let us now fear the LORD our God, Who gives rain in its season, Both the autumn rain and the spring rain, Who keeps for us The appointed weeks of the harvest."
25. 'Your iniquities have turned these away, And your sins have withheld good from you.
26. 'For wicked men are found among My people, They watch like fowlers lying in wait; They set a trap, They catch men.
27. 'Like a cage full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit; Therefore they have become great and rich.
28. 'They are fat, they are sleek, They also excel in deeds of wickedness; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; And they do not defend the rights of the poor.
29. 'Shall I not punish these people?' declares the LORD, 'On a nation such as this Shall I not avenge Myself?'
30. "An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land:
31. The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?

Ezek. 2:3. Then He said to me, "Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day.
4. "I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.'
5. "As for them, whether they listen or not--for they are a rebellious house--they will know that a prophet has been among them.
6. "And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house.
7. "But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious.
8. "Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you."

1 Sam. 12:14. "If you will fear the LORD and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the LORD, then both you and also the king who reigns over you will follow the LORD your God.
15. "If you will not listen to the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the command of the LORD, then the hand of the LORD will be against you, as it was against your fathers.

Hos. 7:13. Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me! I would redeem them, but they speak lies against Me.
14. And they do not cry to Me from their heart When they wail on their beds; For the sake of grain and new wine they assemble themselves, They turn away from Me.
15. Although I trained and strengthened their arms, Yet they devise evil against Me.
16. They turn, but not upward, They are like a deceitful bow; Their princes will fall by the sword Because of the insolence of their tongue. This will be their derision in the land of Egypt.

(All Scripture quotations are from the Update NASB, 1995)

PrincetonGuy · Mar 18, 2007

Notice especially Jer. 5:22-23,

Jer. 5:22. 'Do you not fear Me?' declares the LORD. 'Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it.
23. 'But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; They have turned aside and departed.

If one reads Jer. 5:22 out of context, it appears to say that no one can resist the will of God, but the very next word in the very next verse is the word But. In spite of the fact that the waves of the sea toss and yet cannot prevail, in spite of the fact that the waves roar and yet cannot cross over the sand that God has placed for a boundary for the sea, man can and does succeed in rebelling against and thwarting the will of God, even to the point of departing from Him.

Seeker of the Truth · Mar 18, 2007

Firstly, thank you PrincetonGuy for you explanation. I always appreciate views/interpretations that are backed up.

Salamon said:
Let me ask you something please! If sin is outside of Gods control who has control of sin?? And if sin can defeat Gods will then can God be defeated?? Also I know you think Gods will does not always happen so I have this question do you think God is omniscient? All knowing?

I believe God is all-knowing, yes. However, you fail to see that because God is all-knowing, He does not causes those things to be unless of course, we pray upon those things. That's why people always pray that God's will would be done in whatever situation they are praying (And no, I'm not basing my beliefs off of that, I get them from the Bible).

God chooses to let us have our own will and decide choices on our own as you can see by PrincetonGuy's posts. Also, God is all-powerful, He cannot be defeated, He is God.

PETE_ · Mar 18, 2007

Matt. 4:1 What did the Holy Spirit lead (Gk. “anago” – forcibly take, as in Lk. 2:22; 22:66; and in Mk. 1:12 “ekballo” meaning “driven” or “impelled&#8221 Jesus to do?

Has God ever driven/impelled/forcibly led you anywhere? If so, how did you know?

PETE_ · Mar 18, 2007

Lk. 1:13, 15 At what point was John the Baptist filled/controlled by the Holy Spirit?

What does this tell you about God’s control over people?

Could John have drunk wine at any time during his life if he wanted?
Or, could Zacharias have named their son anything else if he wanted?
Or, could Mary (1:31) have named her son anything other than Jesus if she wanted? Why (1:45)?

Salamon · Mar 18, 2007

spsucj said:
Also, God is all-powerful, He cannot be defeated, He is God.

Exactly! This point right here is were I think you are contradicting yourself. If God is all knowing than doesn't He know what will happen? And if He is all powerful and cannot be defeated. Wouldn't He have to allow sin??

Ok now if He allows sin does this make Him the author of it?? No it does not, God is Righteous He does not make people sin. But for His glory He does allow it. And if He allows it then it is His will to do so, therefore His will be done. I am sure that you would agree that all thing work together for the Glory of God!
Now please dont take my word for it if you want scripture to back this up I can post it I just didn't feel like typing it all up.

Phileoeklogos · Mar 20, 2007

PrincetonGuy said:
Mark 6:1. Jesus went out from there and *came into His hometown; and His disciples *followed Him.
2. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
3. "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.
4. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."
5. And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6. And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching. (NASB, 1995)

Mark says that the ability of Jesus to do miracles in his hometown was limited by the peoples lack of belief in Himthat is NOT self-imposed limitation but limitation imposed by the people!

Mark here writes that Jesus could not perform many miracles in His hometown because the people there did not believe in him and were offended by him, and yet you believe that he could have? I believe Mark; who do you believe?

There is an abundance of a different theology in this thread! You can believe a heathen sheikh if you want to; I prefer to believe what Mark says in his gospel.

How thou art risen, O fallen creature, so sinful men withhold the hand of God?

Matthew records this;

Mat 13:58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

and you still haven't dealt with the few sick folks in Mark that were healed by Jesus. Jesus has the power to come out of the tomb, but some unbelieving townfolk render him powerless? That sounds more like something Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland would say. If God does not do something, it is because He chooses not to do so.

The point of my original post was that God, having the ability and freedom to create any way He so desired, created the world to be such as it is, yes men sin, yes men resist, yes men freely choose to go to destruction, but in doing so they only act inside the bounds that God layed out for them, He is the Ruler of the Universe and Man has not surprised Him yet. You may choose to believe the train jumped the tracks and is making it's own course, but I cannot.

PrincetonGuy · Mar 20, 2007

Phileoeklogos said:
How thou art risen, O fallen creature, so sinful men withhold the hand of God?

Matthew records this;

Mat 13:58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

Matthew tells us that Jesus did not do many mighty works in his hometown; Mark tells us why he didntbecause he could not due to their unbelief.

Phileoeklogos said:
and you still haven't dealt with the few sick folks in Mark that were healed by Jesus.

The Bible does not explicitly tell us why a few sick folks did get healed, but the context makes it very cleara few of the sick folks, but only a few of them, believed and thus were healed.

Phileoeklogos said:
Jesus has the power to come out of the tomb, but some unbelieving townfolk render him powerless? That sounds more like something Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland would say. If God does not do something, it is because He chooses not to do so.

Phileoeklogos says, If God does not do something, it is because He chooses not to do so.

The Bible says, And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.

Who should we believe, Phileoeklogos or the Bible? I choose to believe the Bible.

mlqurgw · Mar 20, 2007

PrincetonGuy said:
Matthew tells us that Jesus did not do many mighty works in his hometown; Mark tells us why he didntbecause he could not due to their unbelief.

The Bible does not explicitly tell us why a few sick folks did get healed, but the context makes it very cleara few of the sick folks, but only a few of them, believed and thus were healed.

Phileoeklogos says, If God does not do something, it is because He chooses not to do so.

The Bible says, And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.

Who should we believe, Phileoeklogos or the Bible? I choose to believe the Bible.

There were a multitude at the pool in John 5 but Christ only healed one. The one He healed didn't even know who He was. It would seem that none of the others even sought healing after Christ made the man whole. Was it the man's faith that caused Christ to come to him and heal him? Was it the lack of faith in all the others that kept Him from healing them also? Hmm.

PrincetonGuy · Mar 21, 2007

mlqurgw said:
There were a multitude at the pool in John 5 but Christ only healed one. The one He healed didn't even know who He was. It would seem that none of the others even sought healing after Christ made the man whole. Was it the man's faith that caused Christ to come to him and heal him? Was it the lack of faith in all the others that kept Him from healing them also? Hmm.

John chapter 5 raises more questions than it answers. Mark 6:5, however, could not be more explicit when read in context,

1. Jesus went out from there and *came into His hometown; and His disciples *followed Him.
2. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
3. "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.
4. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."
5. And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6. And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching. (NASB, 1995)

Phileoeklogos · Mar 21, 2007

Yes, let's believe the Bible, I'm all for that.

Salamon · Mar 21, 2007

Well I must raise a question PrincetonGuy if you believe that Gods will does not always happen and through sin Gods will is strayed from, I ask you can you trust the Bible??? It was written by men and those men were sinners...So can you trust that the Bible is Gods revealed will and if so why, if Gods will doesnt always happen??? God bless, Chris

Seeker of the Truth · Mar 21, 2007

Salamon said:
Well I must raise a question PrincetonGuy if you believe that Gods will does not always happen and through sin Gods will is strayed from, I ask you can you trust the Bible??? It was written by men and those men were sinners...So can you trust that the Bible is Gods revealed will and if so why, if Gods will doesnt always happen??? God bless, Chris

He didn't say that God's will doesn't ever happen, He said usually because of our sin nature which takes us further away from God's will.

Salamon · Mar 21, 2007

spsucj said:
He didn't say that God's will doesn't ever happen, He said usually because of our sin nature which takes us further away from God's will.

Well technically the way I wrote that I didn't say he did and I didn't even mean it that way. I wrote "if you believe that Gods will does not always happen" this means that I am acknowledging that he believes that Gods will does not at every moment happen that it can be strayed from and that sin causes this. Not that "if you believe Gods will never happens" which is what I would have had to say to make that impression. Then I posed the question which is in my last post/\. Hope I cleared this up!! God bless, Chris

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