God's will.

[Danhalen]

Your hypothetical still ignores the theocracy , part of the purpose and function of Gods laws in that theocracy and it was to ensure the bloodline of the messiah , this couldnt be ensured that He come from a promised bloodline if there was intermingling of other cultures and beliefs .

I am sorry that I brought up the OT. I just want to know if you would sacrifice your moral code to God's will. Will you kill Billy?

 

[Danhalen]

The assumptions are too many in that scenario.
For example:
Do we know if the children did not enter heaven? No.
Do we or others live forever? No, everyone dies the first death.
Are we to assume that heaven is better than this fallen world and state? Yes.
I see no moral dilemma in obeying the Author of good and it appears that the lesson learned of judgment of actions and how an entire society can be corrupt was more valuable than the risk of a remnant contaminating God's chosen people - whether that be through genetic behavior deviancies, by a draw to connect with heritage later, etc. is not known.

Finally, an honest answer. Thank you for not dodging the question. Now, would you kill for God tomorrow? Refer to the hypothetical neighborhood. Do you pull the trigger on Billy?

 

[Danhalen]

I didn't answer it, because it is a loaded question/scenario.
Examples:
Have you stopped beating your wife?

It is not a loaded question. The question only makes the assumption that God has commanded you to kill your neighbors. The question does not put you in a false dilemna. Point out the false dilemna to me. Give me the other option(s) that was not provided. Do not accuse me of a logical fallacy unless you are going to provide an explanation of how my scenario is fallacious.

You're a prison guard that has death row duty, do you flip the switch in order to carry out a sentence or do you want to review the trial cases and determine his innocence yourself instead of being a mindless automaton?

This is a similar question. I would say that if I signed up as executioner, that I would just do as I was told. That goes with the territory. The executioner had the choice to not be an executioner. He knew that he would be putting people to death before he signed up for the job.

Loaded for a reason, tainted water, whatever you wish to call it - I don't play along with those.

Why won't you play along with an honest question? There is no hidden agenda behind asking you if you will hold onto your morality over God's. Would you follow God's orders even if they are in conflict with your personal code of ethics?

 

[Danhalen]

Now things have changed. For God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only son.... When Jesus died he descended into hell and set the captives free. I'm sure I'll be surprised as to who is and who isnt in heaven when I get there. This God that you try to depict as an angry violent judgemental tyrant loves His creation but hates the sin. he loves the souls more than the flesh and bones, that's why He allows trials and temptations and sometimes uses us as examples of His soverenty.

Will you kill Billy? You have the gun and the orders. Billy is right in front of the barrel. The clip is full. Do you pull the trigger?

 

[Wakeup2god]

Finally, an honest answer. Thank you for not dodging the question. Now, would you kill for God tomorrow? Refer to the hypothetical neighborhood. Do you pull the trigger on Billy?

God/Jesus wouldn't ask us to kill for Him. Yes there was a time in the OT and had I been an Israelite I probably would have, That was war. But, since the victory on the cross there's no need for God to demonstrate His power in such a way. He has personally paid the price for us.

I believe there is still a time to kill though. Blessed are the 'peace makers'. Sometimes to make peace there is a price to pay. Evil tyrants who play god need stopping. Would you have killed in WWII, Vietnam, Iraq? Would you kill now for any cause? that questions to you Danhalen. Could you risk killing innocents in war? I don't suppose it's as personal now though cos little billy would be stood outside a building 10 miles away when you fire the rocket!

 

[Wakeup2god]

I would say that if I signed up as executioner, that I would just do as I was told. That goes with the territory. The executioner had the choice to not be an executioner.

In OT days it did 'go with the territory'. As they didn't ask to be born an Israelite they had no choice. they didn't ask to be attacked and persecuted for thousands of years but it went with the territory. Now did it 'go with the territory' to attack the Isrealites. It seems you think it acceptible to attack, kill, take into slavery but if they fight back in the name of their God that's not right or fair. that's the way it was then. Live and let live or live and die by the sword. Nower days it isn't that way, there's still a choice though, for or against God. There's no punishment for rejecting God now though just consequence of ones own actions. Hell isn't punishment it's a consequence.

 

[Danhalen]

God/Jesus wouldn't ask us to kill for Him. Yes there was a time in the OT and had I been an Israelite I probably would have, That was war. But, since the victory on the cross there's no need for God to demonstrate His power in such a way. He has personally paid the price for us.

What if God did ask you to kill? What about the tribulation? There is a war coming, who's side are you on?

I believe there is still a time to kill though. Blessed are the 'peace makers'. Sometimes to make peace there is a price to pay. Evil tyrants who play god need stopping.

I agree. Kill the evil tyrants, not the helpless children.

Would you have killed in WWII,

Yes. I would have killed the aggressors in WWII.

Vietnam,

No, I would have moved to Canada.

Iraq?

No, it is not a war that I have found to be justified. I didn't agree with it when it started, and I don't agree with it now. Unfortunately, we can't just up and leave the Iraqi people now. If I had to be there right now, I would kill to protect myself, or the helpless children in the path of the insurgents.

Would you kill now for any cause? that questions to you Danhalen.

Yes, I would kill in defense of helpless children. I would kill in defense of my home. I would kill in defense of my family. I will not kill children intentionally.

Could you risk killing innocents in war?

If there is a war, the risk is going to be there. I would have to take that risk if I choose to defend those that I love.

I don't suppose it's as personal now though cos little billy would be stood outside a building 10 miles away when you fire the rocket!

I am not talking about the man behind the rocket launcher. I am not talking about the man in the cockpit of the F-18. I am talking about the foot soldier that walks up to the child. The child can live or die by my whim. He can't get away, I have him cornered. I won't even raise my gun. I tell him to run and live for another day. He is not my enemy. He is a child.

I have answered your questions. Will you answer mine? Little Billy is under a great deal of mental stress by your inaction so far. You may do better to just pull the trigger now, rather than continue this mental torture you have put him through. It could be that by now, I am behind you, coming to Billy's defense. Last chance to kill for God. What do you do?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

It is not a loaded question. The question only makes the assumption that God has commanded you to kill your neighbors. The question does not put you in a false dilemna. Point out the false dilemna to me. Give me the other option(s) that was not provided. Do not accuse me of a logical fallacy unless you are going to provide an explanation of how my scenario is fallacious.

The scenario is done so to presume that the individual was not prepared from the beginning. It places the person in a dilemma in that they (by your narration) suddenly find themselves in conflict and not knowing what is the reasoning or that they haven't already prepared for the nasty finer details. If the whole story were to be learned, one can see that God spoke as to why (example) and the army was not draftees, they were volunteers by default. The cost was already counted and the men knew full well what would be necessary. The narration, I view, ignores that.

This is a similar question. I would say that if I signed up as executioner, that I would just do as I was told. That goes with the territory. The executioner had the choice to not be an executioner. He knew that he would be putting people to death before he signed up for the job.

Yes, it was a similar question, though I ended with an implied judgment as another poster had done... tainted the answer of "yes". And exactly as you have answered - the army of the Nation of Israel knew what they were signed up for as their duty.

Why won't you play along with an honest question? There is no hidden agenda behind asking you if you will hold onto your morality over God's. Would you follow God's orders even if they are in conflict with your personal code of ethics?

I strive to make my moral code the same as God's your assertion that I would be holding to my own to cause the conflict is what you are not understanding. It may occur, but it gets resolved rather quickly and the end result is not a conflict.

 

[Danhalen]

The scenario is done so to presume that the individual was not prepared from the beginning. It places the person in a dilemma in that they (by your narration) suddenly find themselves in conflict and not knowing what is the reasoning or that they haven't already prepared for the nasty finer details.

Let's now say that you know the neighbors to be evil. They have attacked you on countless occasion. It seems to you that they have done so with out provocation. You can put any justification you want on it. God is telling you to kill children and babies. Is that not in conflict with your moral code?

 

[elman]

Is it moral to do God's will if it conflicts with your personal code of ethics? As a demonstration of what I am asking I present to you the women and children Amelekites. Was it wrong for a person to obey God and slaughter every last woman and child, along with the men, if it conflicted with their own code of ethics that forbade them from taking the life of an innocent?

I am sure this has been asked before, but I am curious about the current thoughts on this.

God is Love. He would never ask us to kill innocent people. I would think and hope that I would respond the same way as if I were asked to sacrifice my son. No I refuse to be unloving or evil.

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

Christ changed our relationship with God so that is not something we today would have to wrestle with. I think Abraham is a good example. He, given the choice, would not kill his son. God asked him to and Abraham was more than willing to do God's will. So I guess my personal answer would be if God asked I would do. Fortunately he doesn't ask those things of us anymore.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Let's now say that you know the neighbors to be evil. They have attacked you on countless occasion. It seems to you that they have done so with out provocation. You can put any justification you want on it. God is telling you to kill children and babies. Is that not in conflict with your moral code?

As I have maintained and explained, my moral code is founded on God's will. I have lived long enough to test and see that He has never, I repeat, NEVER failed me.
I would not enjoy it, but there would be no moral code that would trump my love for God.
As a believer in Jesus Christ, my life and will is forfeit. I die to self every day and strive to be in accordance with the Holy Spirit so that He may act through me.
I'm sure this is foreign to you or that you are not privy to how one can be as this without adding some dismissal term or stereotyping, but I assure you that it is a conscious decision with thought and reason behind it. A believer has within them something that a non-believer does not.

 

[Faithful nonbeliever]

So I guess my personal answer would be if God asked I would do. Fortunately he doesn't ask those things of us anymore.

Well you are certainly strong in your faith, but that is a very scary thought. If someone that I thought to be a loving father asked me to commit such an atrocity, I think I'd rethink my opinion of him.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Well you are certainly strong in your faith, but that is a very scary thought. If someone that I thought to be a loving father asked me to commit such an atrocity, I think I'd rethink my opinion of him.

Be scared if you wish. It does not change my or other believer's position.

Shalom

 

[Danhalen]

I would not enjoy it, but there would be no moral code that would trump my love for God.

Thank you.

As a believer in Jesus Christ, my life and will is forfeit. I die to self every day and strive to be in accordance with the Holy Spirit so that He may act through me.
I'm sure this is foreign to you or that you are not privy to how one can be as this without adding some dismissal term or stereotyping, but I assure you that it is a conscious decision with thought and reason behind it. A believer has within them something that a non-believer does not.

I do understand why you would do as God commands. I just wanted to know if you were internally consistant with your belief. It seems that you are. I pass no moral judgement over you for it. We both believe that God will never ask you to do what I have described. Thank you for your honesty.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Thank you.
I do understand why you would do as God commands. I just wanted to know if you were internally consistant with your belief. It seems that you are. I pass no moral judgement over you for it. We both believe that God will never ask you to do what I have described. Thank you for your honesty.

And thank you for yours. I can appreciate a sincere question and you have continued to show that it is not for ulterior motives as some have been inclined to do and commit. Another reason why I try to answer yours as well as I can, though the justice is not always easy to do given that there are many foundational points that bolster the answer and to explain the spiritual in simple language is a difficulty in it's own sense.

Shalom

 

[elman]

If I am willing to murder innocent people, how am I different from the Moslem suicide bomber?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

If I am willing to murder innocent people, how am I different from the Moslem suicide bomber?

Not everything is for every person. God calls the appropriate person for the task to be done. God's will first and do so by faith; I would not condemn a brother in not being able to do as I am able nor do I see where God makes unfair commands.

 

[Seeking...]

Is it moral to do God's will if it conflicts with your personal code of ethics? As a demonstration of what I am asking I present to you the women and children Amelekites. Was it wrong for a person to obey God and slaughter every last woman and child, along with the men, if it conflicted with their own code of ethics that forbade them from taking the life of an innocent?

I am sure this has been asked before, but I am curious about the current thoughts on this.

Hmmm, I don't violate my personal code of ethics for anyone. Were God to request I commit an act that I believed to be immoral - it would be time to consider my belief/trust in the benevolence and justness of God as well as the rightness of my ethics. If I couldn't reconcile the two and come to an answer that made sense to me - I guess I would have to stick to my ethics. It would be immoral to violate them without adequate justification. Everything I do I am responsible for - no matter who requests it. Unlike many Christians, I believe God would be entirely capable of performing/requesting an immoral act - I personally believe God exists outside of human concepts of morality.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Is it moral to do God's will if it conflicts with your personal code of ethics? As a demonstration of what I am asking I present to you the women and children Amelekites. Was it wrong for a person to obey God and slaughter every last woman and child, along with the men, if it conflicted with their own code of ethics that forbade them from taking the life of an innocent?

I am sure this has been asked before, but I am curious about the current thoughts on this.

Nope, it is not moral. If a god told me to do something that goes against my morals, I would just have to come to the conclusion that I am a more moral being than the god is.