God's timetable for mankind

[Standing Up]

This doesn't answer what I challenged. I challenged to (oddly that you bolded) "Prove your belief by giving historic witness that millenniumism was a continuous belief considered orthodox until recent days."

Please note what I put in red.



My challenge has yet to be matched. What was offered only passed part of what I asked, not the whole of it.

I suspect you'd agree that things taught don't adhere 100% to continuous orthodoxy. You'd be Roman Catholic otherwise, thinking that they did, but you aren't.

Point is the 1000 years as a day and its implication was widely taught early on (scripture and tradition through Martyr, Irenaeus, Barnabas). As the church became more earthly oriented, however, the new idea arising c325ad became that the church/priests would rule/take over the earth and establish the kingdom. Augustine picked up on this idea. Same with the peace and love hippies

 

[PaladinValer]

I suspect you'd agree that things taught don't adhere 100% to continuous orthodoxy. You'd be Roman Catholic otherwise, thinking that they did, but you aren't.

Ah yes; the typical "let's blame everything on Vatican Catholicism and just ignore the fact that the Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox all agree too without being subservient to the pope, the Curia, or anything else particular to the Vatican"...or, in this case, also Luther, Calvin, and the other Reformation Fathers.

Point is the 1000 years as a day and its implication was widely taught early on (scripture and tradition through Martyr, Irenaeus, Barnabas). As the church became more earthly oriented, however, the new idea arising c325ad became that the church/priests would rule/take over the earth and establish the kingdom. Augustine picked up on this idea. Same with the peace and love hippies

I will repeat it one last time; note the red: Prove your belief by giving historic witness that millenniumism was a continuous belief considered orthodox until recent days

No one seems to be able to. Tell me, unless to wish to subscribe to Mormon-style Restorationism, how do you reconcile the fact that there is literally an over 1,000-year gap in its existence? Does God not preserve the truth? Or do we choose to have a god who sets things in motion and stands back like in Deism?

 

[sinning machine]

After the church is raptured up, the 70th week of Daniel will begin. The first 69 were finished when Jesus was cut off at the cross. The first 69 weeks Dan.9:24, were for the Jews. God said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks are determined upon THY (the Jews) people and upon the holy city, to FINISH the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity." and to bring in everlasting righteousness , and to seal up the vision and prophecy, AND TO ANOINT THE MOST HOLY.

This has happened already Hebrews 9:12

 

[Strong in Him]

Good grief man, it's in the Bible!

So is the fact that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years; about 350 of them before Moses was born. You haven't answered that one yet, nor given evidence to show that Adam was created around 4004 BC. Yet your thread rests, at least partly, on these two events.

Lots of things are "in the Bible"; we need to discover what they mean.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Good grief man, it's in the Bible!

Yeah, and Tom Brady shows up in The Lord of the Rings to have a pint with Tom Bombadil and the hobbits before going off to defeat the Emperor on the Second Death Star.

Oh that's right I read into it what I wanted to see. Silly eisegesis, ya got me again!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is the timetable that I would put together...

The time of the horseman runs with the last couple of church ages...

1. White - Democracy - Came about along with the Philadelphian church
2. Red - Communism - Note the red flag, hammer and sickle.
3. Black - Islam - Note the desire to disrupt the global economy.
4. Pale - Anti-Christ - A brief 3.5 year reign.

Isaac Newton picked the 2060 AD end date and I will go along with him with the following disclaimer...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.” – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III, so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060.
If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail.
Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

His own breast?
Newton sounds like a smart cookie

Mat 24:36
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 25:13
Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour."

Rev 9:15
So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

.

 

[x141]

The pattern is in the week.

 

[PaladinValer]

Yeah, and Tom Brady shows up in The Lord of the Rings to have a pint with Tom Bombadil and the hobbits before going off to defeat the Emperor on the Second Death Star.

Oh that's right I read into it what I wanted to see. Silly eisegesis, ya got me again!

Best...reply...in..CF...history...EVER!

 

[shturt678]

So is the fact that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years; about 350 of them before Moses was born. You haven't answered that one yet, nor given evidence to show that Adam was created around 4004 BC. Yet your thread rests, at least partly, on these two events.

Lots of things are "in the Bible"; we need to discover what they mean.

It was the author's purpose to declare regular 24 hour days hence contextually and grammatcially the 4004 years we can take to the bank this morning and the check will clear.

 

[Standing Up]

Ah yes; the typical "let's blame everything on Vatican Catholicism and just ignore the fact that the Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox all agree too without being subservient to the pope, the Curia, or anything else particular to the Vatican"...or, in this case, also Luther, Calvin, and the other Reformation Fathers.

The point is you asked for orthodox teaching, yet you agree there is no such thing (except however one defines it), given that you are part of a non RC group.

I will repeat it one last time; note the red: Prove your belief by giving historic witness that millenniumism was a continuous belief considered orthodox until recent days

No one seems to be able to. Tell me, unless to wish to subscribe to Mormon-style Restorationism, how do you reconcile the fact that there is literally an over 1,000-year gap in its existence? Does God not preserve the truth? Or do we choose to have a god who sets things in motion and stands back like in Deism?

Again, the very early Church did teach it. But show some other belief about the end times, besides the 1000 years is a day belief from scripture/tradition. All we have is the one from Nicea/Augustine that the Church is to conquer the earth as its eternal millennium. Otherwise, you're erecting a straw man that doesn't exist by using a false definition of orthodoxy.

 

[PaladinValer]

The point is you asked for orthodox teaching, yet you agree there is no such thing (except however one defines it), given that you are part of a non RC group.

Find me it found by the Nicene Church...the Undivided Church...please.

Again, the very early Church did teach it. But show some other belief about the end times, besides the 1000 years is a day belief from scripture/tradition.

I did already. Please reread my replies.

All we have is the one from Nicea/Augustine that the Church is to conquer the earth as its eternal millennium. Otherwise, you're erecting a straw man that doesn't exist by using a false definition of orthodoxy.

The only Straw Man here is the fact that, once again, it is again proven no one likes to read that destroys erroneously-held beliefs so they'll ignore it and say "well you didn't say X" when it was said.

I'll give a chance for it to be corrected. I did actually give the information requested of earlier. Please do look carefully at my previous posts. I will be more than happy to accept a retraction and a Straw Man will have been withdrawn, removing the guilt from it. It is no big, huge deal to admit we missed something; I did it last week I believe and was a big enough of a man to correct it.

Answer my challenges please. Find me millennial beliefs continuously from the 1st century onward within a Nicene body until today like I showed that amillennial belief has been. And please retract the false accusation of a Straw Man, because if it is not, I will reply with exactly where I did say it and it will become clear to all that it was a false accusation, and I don't wish to do it but in order to defend myself, I will.

 

[shturt678]

We do know that the Church was "Amillennial" until Mr. Alcazar in 1614 put forth Preterism and Mr. Ribera in 1590 or so, put forth Futurism, and since that time the ol' old "Amillennial" has been going down hill, ie, ready for that bank run?

 

[Strong in Him]

It was the author's purpose to declare regular 24 hour days hence contextually and grammatcially the 4004 years we can take to the bank this morning and the check will clear.

I don't understand that reply; I wanted to know what the evidence was for Adam being created when the OP said he was.
AND, how it could be 500 years from Adam to Moses when the Israelites were in Egypt for around 350 of them.

 

[shturt678]

I don't understand that reply; I wanted to know what the evidence was for Adam being created when the OP said he was.
AND, how it could be 500 years from Adam to Moses when the Israelites were in Egypt for around 350 of them.

....grammatically and contextually, ie, and the implicatude of God creating in 24 hour days, then this is a big part of the premise. Will get back to you regarding my notes as this was one of my more enjoying scriptures study, ie, Chronology. Thank you again for caring! Just ol' old Jack

 

[shturt678]

....grammatically and contextually, ie, and the implicatude of God creating in 24 hour days, then this is a big part of the premise. Will get back to you regarding my notes as this was one of my more enjoying scriptures study, ie, Chronology. Thank you again for caring! Just ol' old Jack

Adam to Moses exactly 2433 provable years and the Exodus at 2513 A.C. Ie, little more than 500 years.

 

[Strong in Him]

Adam to Moses exactly 2433 provable years and the Exodus at 2513 A.C. Ie, little more than 500 years.

The OP actually said "Abraham to Moses".
And the commentaries I have read give two possible dates for the Exodus - 1295 or 1445.

But the thing is that in the beginning there was no time. Genesis says "the first day, ........... second day" and so on. I don't understand the OT method of going backwards with their dates so that 1445 is actually before 1295, but who was it decided that the world was created in 4004 BC?

 

[shturt678]

The OP actually said "Abraham to Moses".
And the commentaries I have read give two possible dates for the Exodus - 1295 or 1445.

But the thing is that in the beginning there was no time. Genesis says "the first day, ........... second day" and so on. I don't understand the OT method of going backwards with their dates so that 1445 is actually before 1295, but who was it decided that the world was created in 4004 BC?

Exodus firmed up to 2513 per multiple Chronological Tables, ie, 1656 A.C. really firmed up thus following births and deaths results in a firmed up Exodus at 2513. Call of Abe 2083 by same method hence 430 years and sound good to me? btw thank you for your patience. I need to be more patient with others also.

We can discuss Gen.1:13, etc, contextually and grammatically resulting in 24 hour days thus firming up all the former?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Are you using emoticons as bullet points?

 

[x141]

... but who was it decided that the world was created in 4004 BC?

The week is a pattern, just as the twelve sons, two wives (of Abraham, and Jacob), the measurement of the walls of the city, or Noah's ark, or how many years the children of Israel were in bondage, as opposed to the amount of time they spent before they came out, or why the term Smote the city with the edge of the sword is used, or the process of coming out of something to come into something, and at times, a coming in only to come out of it again. But all of it reflects the truth in us, and this process of a Son being revealed.

 

[LaSpino3]

Stronginhim, The info I have is this. Abram, or Abraham the son of Terah was born at Ur in the year 2008 B.C.

Moses time of birth is made certain by the Exodus of the Jews when Moses was 80 years old. The date I have for the Exodus is 1441. Add 80 years (Moses age) that takes us to 1521.

Now take 1521 from 2008 we have approximately 487 years from Abraham's birth to Moses birth. This information came from Encyclopedia of religious knowledge 1838 which I have in my possession, a book that I trust in. Also The History of Bible, by Robert Millikan American physicist and Nobel prizewinner.

I also have other books that give the same dating; and being I am old school these are the dates I accept. Now concerning the dating of the creation!

When was Adam created is not important concerning time. Adam was to live forever in the garden. The beginning of time started when Adam sinned and was thrown out of the garden. From that point on his body grew old, and the clock began to tick. Adam lived 930 years before he died.

From the time of Adam's sin, the ages of men were calculated, and marked in history. So the question may arise, how long did Adam and Eve live in the garden before they sinned? Your guess would be as good as mine. The only thing we do know is Adam had time to name every animal that God brought to him.

Its obvious Dinosaurs were outside the garden, and God did not bring these reptiles to him.

Phil LaSpino