God's spiritual prescriptions

Gary K

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I was studying the SS lesson this week on Daniel and was contemplating Daniel 4:27:
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

Here's sort of my train of thought on this.

All throughout the Bible we see God giving us spiritual advice by telling us specific ways to behave. In the context of this verse God is telling Nebuchadnezzer, whom God had told that he, Nebuchadnezzer, had a serious pride problem. In fact Nebuchadnezzer was very arrogant. Yet God condescended to Nebuchadnezzer's level to give him a personal warning about where he was headed spiritually, and then through Daniel gave him advice on how to behave if he didn't want to be that cut down tree of Daniel 4.

Now we are all born in sin. None of us know what a world without sin looks like. Not in reality anyway because try as hard as we like we cannot imagine what a world without sin really looks like. It's just too far outside of everything we know. Therefore sin is woven throughout our personalities, characters, thinking patters, beliefs, etc.... It is who we are. But at the same time Jesus came to save us from our sins.

So how does Jesus save us from our sins? Does He just provide us with a desire to not sin any more and then we are supposed to figure out how to get rid of our sins? Does He provide us with the power to fight temptation and that is how be beat down sin in our lives? Or does God have some other kind of prescription for removing sin from us? We know that He tells us that He works within us both to will and to do His good pleasure, but how does this process work?

Is it possible that the presciptions God gives us are His revelations of exactly what we need to do to overcome specific sins? Look again at Daniel 4:27. Daniel gives Nebuchadnezzer very specific spiritual advice on what to do avoid being that cut down tree. Nebuchadnezzer's specifc problem at that time was extreme pride and the given behavior for treatment was "showing mercy to the poor".

The word translated as "iniquities" there according to Strong's means perverseness. Thus God's view of Nebuchadnezzer's pride and arrogance was that Nebuchadnezzer was pervese in his attitudes towards, God, his own spiritual life, and other people.

What exactly does perverse mean? It's an interesting word.
The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
Perverse Per*verse" (p[~e]r*v[~e]rs"), a. [L. perversus turned
the wrong way, not right, p. p. of pervertereto turn around,
to overturn: cf. F. pervers. See Pervert.]
1. Turned aside; hence, specifically, turned away from the
right; willfully erring; wicked; perverted.
[1913 Webster]

The only righteous in a world perverse. --Milton.
[1913 Webster]

2. Obstinate in the wrong; stubborn; intractable; hence,
wayward; vexing; contrary.
[1913 Webster]

To so perverse a sex all grace is vain. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

Syn: Froward; untoward; wayward; stubborn; ungovernable:
intractable; cross; petulant; vexatious.

Usage: Perverse, Froward. One who is froward is
capricious, and reluctant to obey. One who is perverse
has a settled obstinacy of will, and likes or dislikes
by the rule of contradiction to the will of others.
[1913 Webster]

So Daniel is telling Nebuchadnezzer God viewed him as obstinately commited to exactly the wrong behavior, stubborn, intractable, petulant, vexatious, ungovernable, willfully erring, perverted, etc.... And what is God's prescription for this? Nebuchadnezzer was unbelievably wealthy and God's prescription for Nebuchadnezzer's spiritual sickness was to go deal with people at the very opposite end of the wealth spectrum. He was to go work with those who had nothing. Why do I say that? Because you can't show someone true mercy unless you personally understand their circumstances, needs, and lives. It has to be personal or it isn't merciful for mercy is having compassion, and you can't feel compassion for someone you don't know personally.

So God gave Nebuchadnezzer a specific treatment for his specific spiritual problem. Nebuchadnezzer ignored the advice and he was given the mind of a beast and ate the grasses in the fields for 7 years as a result.

We see this type of situation all throughout the Bible. Isaiah 58 is a great example of this. It lists the sins of a wealthy nation that is all wrapped up in itself and is full of debate, strife and self-righteousness. It thinks it is doing great, and yet God says differently. And, to my point here, God gives them specific spiritual treatments for their sins. In other words, the ways, if they would just trust God enough to obey Him, for God to work and to do in them according to His own pleasure which is saving them from their sins.

Many times in Paul's writings he uses the Greek word nomos in referring to God's law. Here is Strong's definition of nomos:
G3551 νόμος nomos nom'-os
From a primary word νέμω nemō (to parcel out especially food or grazing to animals);
law (through the idea of prescriptive usage) generally (regulation) specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel) or figuratively (a principle): - law.

Notice the multiple ways of looking at this word. To parcel out as food. Hmmm... The law as spiritual food. Our spiritual sustenance. Law through the idea of prescriptive use. God's law as a prescription for sin. A prescription contains the idea of something prescribed for healing.

So, to sum this all up God gave us His moral law, the 10 commandments, as His prescription to heal us from sin. But we have to follow the prescription He has given us to overcome sin. If we ignore His presciption to heal us it can't work for us. If we say obeying the law is a bad thing we are actually ignoring/rejecting the prescription God has given us for removing sin from our lives. This comes down to having the trust and faith in God to do what He tells us to do and leaving the process of removing sin up to Him, for we can never figure out how to get rid of sin ourselves. We just have to, as the old song says, trust and obey. Remember, the oil of gladness, the Holy Spirit, was given without measure to Jesus because He fully committed Himself to always do what His heavenly Father asked him to do. And Paul tells us that the fruit of the Spirit in our lives violates zero laws.
 

yeshuaslavejeff

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It is who we are.
"were".

Who we (ekklesia born again ones, called and set apart by Yahweh for Himself for His Testimony and for His Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus)
were, we are no more - we are new creations in Christ Jesus, living by faith as written throughout Scripture.
 
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Gary K

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"were".

Who we (ekklesia born again ones, called and set apart by Yahweh for Himself for His Testimony and for His Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus)
were, we are no more - we are new creations in Christ Jesus, living by faith as written throughout Scripture.

I agree, but the old man is always there talking to us, and the devil is always there urging us to give into our old selves. And we are still sinful beings. Sin dwells within us. Like David said, we are shaped in iniquity and concieved in sin.
[
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I agree, but the old man is always there talking to us, and the devil is always there urging us to give into our old selves. And we are still sinful beings. Sin dwells within us. Like David said, we are shaped in iniquity and concieved in sin.
[
But NO LONGER FULL OF SIN, especially NOT continually willfully sinning and practicing wickednesses.
Rather, slaves , servants, sons, of RIGHTEOUSNESS, walking WITH Jesus instead of opposed to Him,
living IN UNION , echad, with Jesus daily, and with the Father,
DOing what is right,
DOing what He Says,
instead of what the enemy or the flesh or the world says.
 
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Gary K

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[QUOTE="Gary K, post:

Yes, there are many examples that can guide us back to God and lessen our sinfulness. If we love more then we have a lesser chance of sinning and therefore benefit not just ourselves, but those around us. The whole goal is to become more like Christ and love those that God brings to us.

1. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal.
2. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3. If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body, but have not love, I gain nothing.

God's law is love. When the lawyer came to Jesus and asked what he needed to do for eternal life what was Jesus' reply? He pointed the lawyer to the law and asked what he saw in the law. The lawyer replied that the law pointed to loving God with all our heart, soul, and strength, and our neighbors as ourselves.

Did Jesus disagree with the lawyer said is in God's law? Law and love cannot be separated in understanding the Bible, nor in understanding God. They are one and the same thing. Love is the antidote for selfishness which is what sin really is. Thus the law is the prescription for sin.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God's law is love. When the lawyer came to Jesus and asked what he needed to do for eternal life what was Jesus' reply? He pointed the lawyer to the law and asked what he saw in the law. The lawyer replied that the law pointed to loving God with all our heart, soul, and strength, and our neighbors as ourselves.
Please quote this from Scripture. Thanks.
 
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Gary K

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But NO LONGER FULL OF SIN, especially NOT continually willfully sinning and practicing wickednesses.
Rather, slaves , servants, sons, of RIGHTEOUSNESS, walking WITH Jesus instead of opposed to Him,
living IN UNION , echad, with Jesus daily, and with the Father,
DOing what is right,
DOing what He Says,
instead of what the enemy or the flesh or the world says.

That I agree with.

It is better to obey than to sacrifice. Obedience is the key. We are the servants of whatever/whoever rules our lives. Our only choice is whoever/whatever will rule us. Either righteousness unto life, or sin unto death for Jesus tells us that whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the wages of sin is death.
 
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Gary K

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Please quote this from Scripture. Thanks.
Sorry, I missed this post before.

Luke 10: 25 ¶And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Sorry, I missed this post before.
THanks,
this is the one I was thinking of (just found it again)>>
Matt. 19:16-22, “And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good;

but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
 
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Gary K

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THanks,
this is the one I was thinking of (just found it again)>>
Matt. 19:16-22, “And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good;

but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Interesting choice of verses.

The rich young ruler and Nechuchadnezzer had the same spiritual problem. Both were in love with their wealth.

I've often wondered about this young guy who walked away because his wealth was his idol. Did he become convicted again of his need at a later stage of life and reverse this choice, or was this his life-determining moment?

It seems to me that his love of wealth was his besetting sin and the tone of the story sort of implies he had come to this moment multiple times in his life already because of his response to Jesus. He just turned and walked away sorrowfully. This implies, to me, that this was most likely a recurring occurrence in his life as he didn't ask any questions of Jesus about what He meant. The young guy just turned and disappeared from the Bible.

So, the question that this leads me to is this: are besetting sins a form of perverseness in us? It seems to me that they are for we stumble over them again, and again, and again. Why? It seems to me that the reason is we choose the sin over Jesus on an ongoing basis or we wouldn't be falling into it again and again. To me that implies perverseness on our part.

I'll be interested in your reply.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Perhaps he was later repentant, if he happened to be the one who claimed Jesus' body to take and bury Jesus properly according to Torah ?

I've often wondered about this young guy who walked away because his wealth was his idol. Did he become convicted again of his need at a later stage of life and reverse this choice, or was this his life-determining moment?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We might receive a little (A LOT?) of help from Jesus when He told His Apostles how often to forgive someone , yes ?

But no, it is not worth sinning willfully continually, which it is written means there is no light in someone and the truth is not in them (like those who for decades promote any false gospel - they are anathema and not to be greeted nor to share a meal with, as Scripture clearly says)
(online this is nearly impossible to accomplish, it seems, as the wicked continue as long as they wish)

.
So, the question that this leads me to is this: are besetting sins a form of perverseness in us? It seems to me that they are for we stumble over them again, and again, and again. Why? It seems to me that the reason is we choose the sin over Jesus on an ongoing basis or we wouldn't be falling into it again and again. To me that implies perverseness on our part.

I'll be interested in your reply.
 
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Gary K

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Perhaps he was later repentant, if he happened to be the one who claimed Jesus' body to take and bury Jesus properly according to Torah ?

Do you have any evidence that the rich young ruler was actually Joseph of Arimethaea? It was he and Nicodemus who took responsibility for the preparation of Jesus' body and His burial, and Jesus was buried in Joseph's tomb.

That would be a nice story, if true, but I've never seen any evidence that points to this.
 
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Gary K

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We might receive a little (A LOT?) of help from Jesus when He told His Apostles how often to forgive someone , yes ?

But no, it is not worth sinning willfully continually, which it is written means there is no light in someone and the truth is not in them (like those who for decades promote any false gospel - they are anathema and not to be greeted nor to share a meal with, as Scripture clearly says)
(online this is nearly impossible to accomplish, it seems, as the wicked continue as long as they wish)

.

I guess I'm missing something as I don't see what you said here addresses the issue of besetting sins and perverseness. Yes, sinning willfully and continually leads to spiritual death. I agree with that. But I've also never seen it said anywhere that a besetting sin is a conscious willful decision to sin.

It's my idea that there almost has to be some degree of perverseness in a besetting sin, but even Paul seems to make a difference between besetting sin and deliberate willful sin.
Hebrews 12: 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
 
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