God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Doveaman,

Here is some more scripture for your consideration below.

The 7th day and God's finished work are not the same thing. The 7th day is a part of God's physical creation. God's finished work occurred after the 7th day was created. The 7th day was then established as a memorial/shadow of God's finished work. God's finished work, therefore, is the true Sabbath-rest, and the 7th day memorial was just a shadow of God's true rest. Christians are now called to observe the true Sabbath-rest, and not a mere memorial day: "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:9-10). When we enter God's true Sabbath-rest we cease from our fleshly works of human nature, just as God ceased from His physical works of material creation. Our fleshly works of human nature is a finished work, just as God's physical works of material creation is a finished work.

Well it seems as though you are just making this up now. What you have provided is just your opinion and you have no scripture support. Of course the 7th Day of the creation week are part of the finished work. God’s Word says this not me.

Gen 2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Gen 2:2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So from here the rest of your argument falls apart…and has no basis in scripture.

You then go on to quote Heb 4:9-10. So let’s have a look at what all of Hebrews 4 says in context to see if what you are saying is correct or not?

HEB 4

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)

* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest 4520 to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)

Well that definitely does not say what you were suggesting it says now does it?

In Christ Always!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Doveaman,

I may be away for a while but happy to share God's Word with you again latter if you like? Some more scripture below for your consideration. Chat again soon I hope

The 7th Day Sabbath is indeed a memorial of creation.
No, it is not. The creation is the result of God's work. The 7th day Sabbath is a memorial of God's rest. "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy...For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but He rested on the seventh day" (Ex 20:8). The 7th day Sabbath is just a memorial/shadow of God's rest, it is not the reality of God's rest. Just as Independence Day is a memorial/shadow of independence, it is not the reality of independence.

Where does it say in God’s Word that the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of God’s "rest?” This is not biblical. Here let me show you the Word of God that says the 7th Day Sabbath is indeed a memorial of creation.

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

As you can see from God’s Word the 7th Day Sabbath is indeed a memorial of creation. It is a day that God blessed and made a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3). God made it for mankind and commands His people to keep it as a Holy day (Mark 2:27; Ex 20:8-11). Jesus is the Lord and maker of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). We keep God’s Sabbath because we love Jesus (John 14:15). Do you love Jesus Dovaman? We should not follow Independence Day we should or Sunday Worship as they are both not biblical. We should follow God’s Word. The 7th Day Sabbath was never a Shadow because it is a FINISHED (completed) work BEFORE the fall of mankind (Gen 2:1-3)

"The other important point you have not addressed from post 325 is when the Sabbath was given. It was given BEFORE the fall of mankind as part of a FINISHED work so it cannot be part of the shadows of ceremonial Laws because mankind had not fallen."
The time in which the 7th day Sabbath was given is not important, because it's only a memorial day. The reality of God's Sabbath-rest is what's important, and the reality of God's Sabbath-rest is when God finished or ceased from His material works, which occurred after the 7th day creation was completed.

The time in which the 7th day Sabbath was given is absolutely important! Why? Because it proves the 7th Day Sabbath cannot be a shadow of the plan of salvation. Why? Because it was made BEFORE the fall of mankind and before the plan of salvation was made! So how can it be a Shadow? It cannot be a shadow because it was part of a FINISHED work made before sin had entered the world. You cannot deny this because it is the Word of God (Gen 2:1-3). This alone shows you that your interpretation of Hebrews 9 is not correct because you this is talking about the plan of salvation and the heavenly Sanctuary and the Ministration of Christ our high priest over sin and the investigative Judgment. Yes the standard is God’s Law because it is the standard of righteousness which points out what sin is. But your shadow theory disappears because the Sabbath was given before the fall of mankind and before sin entered the world and is part of the finished work of creation.

I can understand why you have not addressed this section because it does away with your shadow theory that you have no biblical support for. This section of God’s Word should be a warning to you that your interpretation of God’s Word is not correct. You still have not addressed this section of scripture.

Dear Doveaman, you should be able to see by now that your interpretation of God’s Word is not biblical. God is calling His people wherever they maybe and whatever Church they may be in to worship him and follow him in Spirit and in truth to come out from following the teachings and traditions of man to follow him according to His Word.(John 4:23). Now the question remains where we all individually need to make our own decision who do we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God.

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws including God’s 7th Day Sabbath we are sinning against God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word. Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God’s Law and has no basis in God’s Word. The question remains who do we really follow God or Man? This is the great test that will come to each of us. God’s sheep hear his voice… He that has ears to hear let him hear (Matt 11:15) If we say that we know Jesus and are breaking His commandments God’s Word says we are lying and the truth is not in us (1John 2:3-4) Jesus says Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (see all of Matt 15:3-9) Hope this is helpful.

In Christ Always

 

[Bob S]

Hi LGW, God told Moses what the old covenant was about and if you are willing to listen instead of pushing your agenda I can and will show you what it was about. In the prelude to giving the 10 commandments God told Moses to explain to the Israelites that He wanted to make them a Holy nation.. Ex 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

A conundrum occurs when the SDA church proclaims that the Sabbath is part of the plan of salvation As you can glean from understanding what the covenant was about you have to admit it was not about salvation. It was about how to live in Canaan and become a holy nation.
We don't even have to go to the New Testament to discover this truth. We don't have to have Col2 or 2Cor3 to prove that none of the old covenant concerned the plan of salvation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Bob,

How are you today my friend? Nice to see you and always have time to listen. I hope it goes both ways. I have no agenda. I am just sharing God's Word

Hi LGW, God told Moses what the old covenant was about and if you are willing to listen instead of pushing your agenda I can and will show you what it was about. In the prelude to giving the 10 commandments God told Moses to explain to the Israelites that He wanted to make them a Holy nation.. Ex 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” A conundrum occurs when the SDA church proclaims that the Sabbath is part of the plan of salvation As you can glean from understanding what the covenant was about you have to admit it was not about salvation. It was about how to live in Canaan and become a holy nation. We don't even have to go to the New Testament to discover this truth. We don't have to have Col2 or 2Cor3 to prove that none of the old covenant concerned the plan of salvation.

What does it mean to make someone Holy?

Of course the Old Covenant was also about salvation or everyone from that period would be lost.
This is where your interpretation falls apart is that when we are talking about God's Law and the laws of Moses we are talking about two different things. 1. God's Law (10 commandments) only points out what sin is. It is not a cure for sin. 2. The laws of Moses (ceremonial, sacrificial, Levitical, Sanctuary, civil, annual festivals, ordinances etc) are the prescription for sin. The wages of sin is death so the penalty must be paid (animal sacrifices under the laws of Moses). The sacrificial laws of Moses pointed to Jesus as the true lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world (the new better Covenant).

What was the earthly Sanctuary service with all it's burnt offerings and all the ceremonial and Levitical laws and festivals for? They were for a cure for sin should someone sin. God's Law only ever pointed out what sin was. The Sanctuary service and all of it's laws were however the cure for sin and included all the animal sacrifices, food and drink offerings that where to cleanse the sinner from their sins. There is many scriptures on this let me know if you want them (e.g. most of Lev; Numb; Deut). It was also to teach the children of Israel about God's plan of salvation and pointed to Jesus as the Messiah and our true sacrifice for sin and offering, the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the World (John 1:29; 1Cor 5:7). So what we are talking about in Hebrews 9 is the real copy of the early plan of salvation.

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws including God’s 7th Day Sabbath we are sinning against God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word. Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God’s Law and has no basis in God’s Word. The question remains who do we really follow God or Man? This is the great test that will come to each of us. God’s sheep hear his voice… He that has ears to hear let him hear (Matt 11:15) If we say that we know Jesus and are breaking His commandments God’s Word says we are lying and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:3-4) Jesus says Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (see all of Matt 15:3-9)

Hope this is helpful.

Gods

 

[Doveaman]

I thought this may be a good because there seems to be a lot of confusion over the scriptures found in Colosians Chapter 2; especially verses 14-17. This chapter has its basis from the Old Testaments scriptures so this is a study looking at the context and scripture references that are being referred to in this Chapter.

Okay, Colossians 2:

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:14-15).

You will notice in Colossians 2 that Paul mentions a "holyday" as well as the "sabbath days" as a shadow of things to come.

The "holyday" is referring to the annual festival sabbaths, and the "sabbath days" is referring to the weekly 7th day sabbaths.

There would be no point in Paul making that distinction if they were both annual festival sabbaths.

Paul is saying that the annual "holyday" and the weekly "sabbath days" are both a "shadow".

 

[Doveaman]

Hi Doveaman,

Thanks for sharing again. Comments below.

Good discussion. The Holy days you references from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to the annual Jewish Festivals in the book of Leviticus chapter 23. Did you know that the reference to Holy Days was in fact referring to other days listed on the Jewish calendar? These days were not weekly Sabbath days. I will write some more on this latter as I am a little busy right now. But no the reference to Holy day is NOT referring to the annual Sabbath days. The "sabbath day(s) plural is in v16. The Holy days are a referrence to "Holy convocations" in relation to the different annual feasts of Leviticus which could fall on any day of the week.

Hope this helps

No, it did not.
It was confusing.

 

[Doveaman]

Well I enjoyed our discussion. It was not confusing to me. Please take a look at the scriptures and pray about it. Chat soon friend hope your days a great one and wish you much love in Jesus who loved us and washed us in His Own blood!

In Christ

What??

You seem to agree that the "holiday" in Colossians 2 is referring to the Jewish annual festivals, but then you completely ignored any reference to the "sabbath days" in Colossians 2.

Maybe your posts would not be so confusing if you can explain the distinction between the "holiday" in Colossians 2 and the "sabbath days" in Colossians 2:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:16).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Friend,

For you below. This was already discussed in the Col 2 thread. You did not read the post that addressed your cut and paste above so maybe you were confused. I do not know why you are even pasting those here. Answer pasted again below for your consideration in case you did not see it. I will write more in detail on it latter when I have time.

Okay, Colossians 2:
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:14-15). You will notice in Colossians 2 that Paul mentions a "holyday" as well as the "sabbath days" as a shadow of things to come. The "holyday" is referring to the annual festival sabbaths, and the "sabbath days" is referring to the weekly 7th day sabbaths. There would be no point in Paul making that distinction if they were both annual festival sabbaths. Paul is saying that the annual "holyday" and the weekly "sabbath days" are both a "shadow".

The Holy days you referenced from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days in the book of Leviticus chapter 23 called Holy convocations. The reference to Holy Days was in fact referring to other days listed on the Jewish calendar. These days were not weekly Sabbath days. I will write some more on this latter as I am a little busy right now. But no the reference to Holy day is NOT referring to the annual Sabbath days. The "sabbath day(s) plural is in v16 not day singular. This is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days including the High Sabbath days referred to in John 19:31. The Holy days in Col 2 are a reference to "Holy convocations" in relation to the different annual feasts of Leviticus which could fall on any day of the week. So is not referring to the weekly Sabbath.

So No the Holy days are not referring to the weekly Sabbath. The posts were not confusing you just did not read the post that already answered this in the other thread on Col 2.

So friend who do we obey? God or man? Sunday Worship is the tradition and teaching of man that has no basis in God's Word

In Christ always!

In Christ

 

[Doveaman]

The Holy days you referenced from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days in the book of Leviticus chapter 23 called Holy convocations. The reference to Holy Days was in fact referring to other days listed on the Jewish calendar. These days were not weekly Sabbath days. I will write some more on this latter as I am a little busy right now. But no the reference to Holy day is NOT referring to the annual Sabbath days. The "sabbath day(s) plural is in v16 not day singular. This is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days including the High Sabbath days referred to in John 19:31. The Holy days in Col 2 are a reference to "Holy convocations" in relation to the different annual feasts of Leviticus which could fall on any day of the week. So is not referring to the weekly Sabbath.

So No the Holy days are not referring to the weekly Sabbath. The posts were not confusing you just did not read the post that already answered this in the other thread on Col 2.

This is why it is confusing.

You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days.

You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case.

You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two.

And that's what makes it so confusing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is why it is confusing.

You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days.
You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case.You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two. And that's what makes it so confusing.

I see where you are confused. You are confused with this statement

"The Holy days you referenced from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days"

The "context" is the Jewish annual festivals I am really not sure why you are confused about that? I am not saying in that statement that the Holy days and the annual Sabbath(s) are the same thing. Only that the "context" of Col 2 is referring to the Jewish Festivals and the ceremonial laws of Moses in Lev 23.

Hope that helps your confusion it was never mine

In Christ Always!

 

[Bob S]

Hi LGW,

Hi Bob,

How are you today my friend? Nice to see you and always have time to listen. I hope it goes both ways. I have no agenda. I am just sharing God's Word



What does it mean to make someone Holy?

Well, it certainly doesn't mean anything about their eternal salvation. You tell me what you think being a Holy nation meant.

Of course the Old Covenant was also about salvation or everyone from that period would be lost.

The law could not save no matter how well the Israelites kept it or how many sacrifices they did. You are trying to make an argument that is not there. Moses wrote the story about Abraham's salvation so he knew how people are saved. The fact is the covenant was not about eternal life. The blood of animals cannot save anything. Sacrificing blood for atonement was only a temporary fix so that the Israelites could get back on track becoming the Holy nation God wanted them to become.

This is where your interpretation falls apart is that when we are talking about God's Law and the laws of Moses we are talking about two different things.

Actually no, you are wrong. All of the old covenant is God's word. Some on stone and some on parchment. To take liberty to try to separate the two ways is very offensive to any practicing Jew. It would have taken a big Mack truck to carry all 613 laws had they been written on stones. The fact is the two greatest commands are not found in the 10, they are found in the part you say is discarded. So much for your theory.

1. God's Law (10 commandments) only points out what sin is.

Actually it did a real poor job of pointing out sin. It didn't even point out the sin of not loving our fellow man let alone all the other words that that describe sin. Gal 5: 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is not a cure for sin. 2. The laws of Moses (ceremonial, sacrificial, Levitical, Sanctuary, civil, annual festivals, ordinances etc) are the prescription for sin.

All I can say to that statement is bologna. Keeping feast days had nothing to do with being a cure for sin. They all referred to events to be remembered. Parroting what you have heard is not always in your best interest

The wages of sin is death so the penalty must be paid (animal sacrifices under the laws of Moses). The sacrificial laws of Moses pointed to Jesus as the true lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world (the new better Covenant).

Yes they did, but all of that was not the plan of salvation. It was part of making Israel a Holy nation. It was not the prescription for eternal life.

What was the earthly Sanctuary service with all it's burnt offerings and all the ceremonial and Levitical laws and festivals for? They were for a cure for sin should someone sin. God's Law only ever pointed out what sin was. The Sanctuary service and all of it's laws were however the cure for sin and included all the animal sacrifices, food and drink offerings that where to cleanse the sinner from their sins. There is many scriptures on this let me know if you want them (e.g. most of Lev; Numb; Deut). It was also to teach the children of Israel about God's plan of salvation and pointed to Jesus as the Messiah and our true sacrifice for sin and offering, the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the World (John 1:29; 1Cor 5:7). So what we are talking about in Hebrews 9 is the real copy of the early plan of salvation.

Absolutely not my friend. The copy of the plan of salvation is the story of Abraham.

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws including God’s 7th Day Sabbath we are sinning against God.

Not true, the Sabbath had nothing to do with salvation. It was exclusively for Israel. It was a weekly reminder of how God led them out of captivity and creation. It was a ritual law just as were all the other special days given only to Israel. Sabbath is not part of the new covenant so how could it be a sin for Christians.

Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings

Maybe you are forgetting that Jesus is God and He told us to keep His commandments like He had kept His Father's commandments. To me that is telling me the the commandments that Jesus kept were found in the 613 laws. Jesus command to us is to believe in Him and love others as he loves us. Why do you take the liberty to place a 10 in front of commandments when there is no indication of it being there? You are adding to the Word by doing that and that is deceiving my friend.

and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word. Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God’s Law and has no basis in God’s Word. The question remains who do we really follow God or Man? This is the great test that will come to each of us. God’s sheep hear his voice… He that has ears to hear let him hear (Matt 11:15) If we say that we know Jesus and are breaking His commandments God’s Word says we are lying and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:3-4) Jesus says Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (see all of Matt 15:3-9)

Where there is no law there is no sin. Christians are free to worship any day because there is no law telling us we cannot. It is only churches like you SDAs that try to establish a false sin on the remainder of Christendom. There is absolutely no new covenant command to keep the Seventh-day Sabbath. It is you and your church that is taking the liberty to put a 10 in front of commandments. Taking the liberty in doing that is an abhorrence to all that the Holy Writ is all about. I live by the verses found below in green. Scripture in verse 19 tells me that I am doing right by believing in Jesus and loving others as He commands. Do you see a bunch about keeping a day given only to one nation? For a church to tell me that I will not receive eternal life because I don't observe a day that was given only to Israel is a complete falsehood. Someone is going to have to answer for doing that.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Bob,

Let's agree to disagree my friend. I see no matter how much scripture I share with you that it will make no difference to you. I also notice you sometimes take my quotes out of context and try to put an interpretation on them that is not what I am saying (e.g. just one example below)

The law could not save no matter how well the Israelites kept it or how many sacrifices they did.

You have made your mind up in what you believe and that is between you and God. Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. You are entitled to believe anything you like. I do not judge you for your belief. It is God's Word however that will judge between all of us in the last days. All I can do is to share God's Word with you.

From Genesis to Revelations the Judgements of God have only ever been given to mankind over SIN. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom.... God tells us that SIN is the transgression of God's Laws and the wages of sin is death and that all of us will stand before the Judgement seat of God to answer for the things that we have done on this earth. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments. If you knowingly and willfully break it you commit sin and are guilty before God. These are God's Words not mine. You believe God or you do not. This decision is up to you.

I am just wondering if anyone knows the meaning of these scriptures?

Heb 6:4-6,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

In Christ Always!

 

[listed]

Hi Doveaman,

Here is some more scripture for your consideration below.


Well it seems as though you are just making this up now. What you have provided is just your opinion and you have no scripture support. Of course the 7th Day of the creation week are part of the finished work. God’s Word says this not me.

Gen 2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Gen 2:2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So from here the rest of your argument falls apart…and has no basis in scripture.

You then go on to quote Heb 4:9-10. So let’s have a look at what all of Hebrews 4 says in context to see if what you are saying is correct or not?

HEB 4

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)

* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest 4520 to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)

Well that definitely does not say what you were suggesting it says now does it?

In Christ Always!

Yeah right God said they wouldn't enter His rest. They kept the 7th day sabbath. Jesus offered this rest they couldn't enter in Matthew 11:28-30 to sabbath keepers.

 

[listed]

Hi Doveaman,

I may be away for a while but happy to share God's Word with you again latter if you like? Some more scripture below for your consideration. Chat again soon I hope


Where does it say in God’s Word that the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of God’s "rest?” This is not biblical. Here let me show you the Word of God that says the 7th Day Sabbath is indeed a memorial of creation.

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

As you can see from God’s Word the 7th Day Sabbath is indeed a memorial of creation. It is a day that God blessed and made a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3). God made it for mankind and commands His people to keep it as a Holy day (Mark 2:27; Ex 20:8-11). Jesus is the Lord and maker of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). We keep God’s Sabbath because we love Jesus (John 14:15). Do you love Jesus Dovaman? We should not follow Independence Day we should or Sunday Worship as they are both not biblical. We should follow God’s Word. The 7th Day Sabbath was never a Shadow because it is a FINISHED (completed) work BEFORE the fall of mankind (Gen 2:1-3)


The time in which the 7th day Sabbath was given is absolutely important! Why? Because it proves the 7th Day Sabbath cannot be a shadow of the plan of salvation. Why? Because it was made BEFORE the fall of mankind and before the plan of salvation was made! So how can it be a Shadow? It cannot be a shadow because it was part of a FINISHED work made before sin had entered the world. You cannot deny this because it is the Word of God (Gen 2:1-3). This alone shows you that your interpretation of Hebrews 9 is not correct because you this is talking about the plan of salvation and the heavenly Sanctuary and the Ministration of Christ our high priest over sin and the investigative Judgment. Yes the standard is God’s Law because it is the standard of righteousness which points out what sin is. But your shadow theory disappears because the Sabbath was given before the fall of mankind and before sin entered the world and is part of the finished work of creation.

I can understand why you have not addressed this section because it does away with your shadow theory that you have no biblical support for. This section of God’s Word should be a warning to you that your interpretation of God’s Word is not correct. You still have not addressed this section of scripture.

Dear Doveaman, you should be able to see by now that your interpretation of God’s Word is not biblical. God is calling His people wherever they maybe and whatever Church they may be in to worship him and follow him in Spirit and in truth to come out from following the teachings and traditions of man to follow him according to His Word.(John 4:23). Now the question remains where we all individually need to make our own decision who do we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God.

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws including God’s 7th Day Sabbath we are sinning against God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word. Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God’s Law and has no basis in God’s Word. The question remains who do we really follow God or Man? This is the great test that will come to each of us. God’s sheep hear his voice… He that has ears to hear let him hear (Matt 11:15) If we say that we know Jesus and are breaking His commandments God’s Word says we are lying and the truth is not in us (1John 2:3-4) Jesus says Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (see all of Matt 15:3-9) Hope this is helpful.

In Christ Always

You read things that aren't there. God blessed the 7th day. God didn't bless the sabbath in Genesis 2. The 2 aren't the same. The gentiles kept the law of God, but not the sabbath. This is evidenced by Acts 15. The gentiles didn't observe the law given at Sinai.

 

[listed]

Okay, Colossians 2:

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:14-15).

You will notice in Colossians 2 that Paul mentions a "holyday" as well as the "sabbath days" as a shadow of things to come.

The "holyday" is referring to the annual festival sabbaths, and the "sabbath days" is referring to the weekly 7th day sabbaths.

There would be no point in Paul making that distinction if they were both annual festival sabbaths.

Paul is saying that the annual "holyday" and the weekly "sabbath days" are both a "shadow".

Colossians 2 is a list, not a commentary.

 

[listed]

Hi Bob,

Let's agree to disagree my friend. I see no matter how much scripture I share with you that it will make no difference to you. I also notice you sometimes take my quotes out of context and try to put an interpretation on them that is not what I am saying (e.g. just one example below)


You have made your mind up in what you believe and that is between you and God. Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. You are entitled to believe anything you like. I do not judge you for your belief. It is God's Word however that will judge between all of us in the last days. All I can do is to share God's Word with you.

From Genesis to Revelations the Judgements of God have only ever been given to mankind over SIN. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom.... God tells us that SIN is the transgression of God's Laws and the wages of sin is death and that all of us will stand before the Judgement seat of God to answer for the things that we have done on this earth. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments. If you knowingly and willfully break it you commit sin and are guilty before God. These are God's Words not mine. You believe God or you do not. This decision is up to you.

In-other-words a person can't have eternal life without keeping the sabbath. This is contrary to NT Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments exposes the sin that already exists in human nature by convicting us of sin and condemning us for sin:
...
The sinful nature is at war with the Spirit, not the Ten Commandments

One of the most convoluted self-conflicted arguments to be had here.

The point remains - that the TEN Commandments are the "Commandments of God" are included in the moral LAW of God.. they define what sin is -- and therefore condemn the sinful nature... the sinful nature has the BENT toward SIN as Romans 3 points out and "SIN IS transgression of THE LAW" 1 John 3:4.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

So for example in that list -- Neh 10:29
29 are joining with their kinsmen, their nobles, and are taking on themselves a curse and an oath to walk in God’s law, which was given through Moses, God’s servant, and to keep and to observe all the commandments of God our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes;

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN.

There is still no '10' in any of those scriptures --

Ignoring every single detail in the texts quoted - and selecting a "deny-all" response is not the grand compelling solution you have imagined.

You are sweeping away quotes from Exodus 20 -- the TEN commandments and every reference to Moses and the LAW and the Commandments of God given above in your "I can't see any Ten Commandments" response.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"?

Is that supposed to be "compelling"???

It is your right to hold to your own preferences but wouldn't it be great to have an objective POV that did not have to ignore every detail in the texts quoted???

 

[Bob S]

Hi LGW,

Hi Bob,

Let's agree to disagree my friend. I see no matter how much scripture I share with you that it will make no difference to you. I also notice you sometimes take my quotes out of context and try to put an interpretation on them that is not what I am saying (e.g. just one example below)


You have made your mind up in what you believe and that is between you and God. Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. You are entitled to believe anything you like. I do not judge you for your belief. It is God's Word however that will judge between all of us in the last days. All I can do is to share God's Word with you.

From Genesis to Revelations the Judgements of God have only ever been given to mankind over SIN. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom.... God tells us that SIN is the transgression of God's Laws and the wages of sin is death and that all of us will stand before the Judgement seat of God to answer for the things that we have done on this earth. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments. If you knowingly and willfully break it you commit sin and are guilty before God. These are God's Words not mine. You believe God or you do not. This decision is up to you.

I am just wondering if anyone knows the meaning of these scriptures?

Heb 6:4-6,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

In Christ Always!

All I can say is I believe you were not honest in your evaluation of 2Cor 3:7-11. I should have known you would not submit yourself to scripture that would prove your theory wrong, I was hopeful that you would not be like all the other SDAs with which I have posted.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi LGW, All I can say is I believe you were not honest in your evaluation of 2Cor 3:7-11. I should have known you would not submit yourself to scripture that would prove your theory wrong, I was hopeful that you would not be like all the other SDAs with which I have posted.

Hi Bob, good morning (my time)

To me God's Word is amazing because weather we are talking the Old Testament or the New Testament or collectively both the Old and the New Testament together, God's Word never contradicts itself. If on the other hand we are holding on to a belief system where there is scripture that seems to contradict other scriptures in God's Word, this should be a warning sign to us that maybe our interpretation of what the scriptures are talking about it not correct.

I have shared with you from God's Word what it is I believe. These Words are God's Words not mine. It is of little consequence to me if you believe these Words or not. That is between you and Jesus. It is God's Word that will judge us in the last days. However, I pray that you will believe the Word of God for your own sake and because I care about you. Saying that you do not believe I have been honest in my evaluation of 2Cor 3:7-11 when I have gone through all the scriptures with you in previous posts even showing you the context of these verses within the Chapter only tells me that you do not believe God's Word because it contradicts your interpretation of what you think the verses mean. So your eyes are closed to scripture that you feel contradicts your belief and you hold on to your belief so you can keep your traditions over the Word of God.

All of your post above however is only a deflection because you have not been honest in your evaluation of the post I sent about Col 2 (325). Closing your eyes to God's Word and all the scriptures I have sent you do not make these scriptures go away. When you open your eyes they will still be there. These scriptures will Judge us all in the last days. You will not be able to say in that day, that you did not know the scriptures because you knew about them but did not choose to accept them.

My prayer for you is that you will not harden your heart and seek God in prayer with an honest heart and receive all of God's Word to you. Soon the door of opportunity will closed and it will be too late to seek Jesus in prayer and forgiveness. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Do you know the meaning of these scriptures Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27? Jesus is waiting for all of us to come home. Will you hear His voice and come home Bob?

In Christ Always!