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Are the commandments the law covenant? Moses says they are in Deuteronomy 4:13.
Where did you find that quote?Right, you are now under the supervision of the one who said, 'It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one jot or tittle of the Law to lose authority.'
Where did you find that quote?
My bible reads differently:
"It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." -- (Luke 16:17).
Jesus is not merely talking about the Ten Commandments, He is talking about the Books of Moses (the Torah) and their prophetic predictions about Jesus. None of those predictions failed. Jesus fulfilled them all:
"This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." -- (Luke 24:44).
At least you agree that the old covenant is indeed the Ten Commandments.Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish.
You seem to be also admitting that the Ten Commandments will soon vanish.Aint vanished yet!
Yes, including the bible:Yes there are some books that claim the ten are obsolete.
Love is the fulfillment of the law. We establishing the law by living a life of love. The scriptures do not tell us that the law is the fulfillment of love, instead it tells us that love is the fulfillment of the law:ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.
But you already admitted that the Ten Commandments is the old covenant, and Galatians does talk about both covenants:All scriptures out of Galatians. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once.
Are the commandments the law covenant? Moses says they are in Deuteronomy 4:13.
Why? I have done as requested. I fail to see you point.Look at the Greek there for 'fail.'
Hello Steve.Right, you are now under the supervision of the one who said, 'It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one jot or tittle of the Law to lose authority.'
There was no 7th day Sabbath rest applicable to Adam anywhere in Genesis. The 7th day rest in the law was first introduce to the Jews after they left Egypt, and this was some 430 years after Abraham:The 7th day Sabbath rest applicable to Adam and to those at Sinai - would have originated in Genesis 2:1-3 just as you say.
The only rest that remains is a permanent state of rest from our works, just as God’s rest was a permanent state of rest from His works: “for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His.” -- (Hebrews 4:1-10).But at the 'very least' the Hebrews 4 argument quotes from Psalms 96 saying that "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - which means "at a minimum" it remains as it was in the time of David in Ps 96. But as you say - it actually remains from Genesis 2:1-3.
God in Exodus 20 is commanding Israel to observe a memorial day of rest commemorating His permanent state of rest from His creation works.Until you read what He said about it in Exodus 20:8-11. It has aways been the 7th day of the week and is in fact why we even HAVE 7 days in our week.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Spoken by God - to the people
Written by God - on stone.
Not "a perpetual, unceasing period of rest" - but rather 6 days of common work and one day of rest - "in real life".
Isiah 66 is describing future events in metaphorical terms, not literal terms:Thus in Isaiah 66 we have TWO cycles for all mankind for all eternity even after the cross... in the New Earth " from New Moon to New Moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath" not "every day and from New Moon to New Moon" as some have imagined it.
On the contrary - for all mankind for all eternity even after the cross... in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Ha, that’s funny. The memorial is the shadow.The 7th day weekly Sabbath is a "memorial" not a "shadow".
That’s not my argument. That’s your strawman.8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work
The argument "oh no it is not" or "oh no the 7th day is not the Sabbath of the LORD" -- is a short-lived argument in a sola-scriptura world.
At least you agree that the old covenant is indeed the Ten Commandments.
That’s a good place to start:
"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."...And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant — the Ten Commandments." -- (Exodus 34:27-28).
You seem to be also admitting that the Ten Commandments will soon vanish.
Yes, including the bible:
“In that He says, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” -- (Hebrews 8:13).
The author said the old covenant is ready to vanish away after saying it has been made obsolete.
The reason why the old covenant is called old is because it is outdated and no longer required. We are now under a new covenant: “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit" -- (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).
Hello WailingWall.At least you agree that that the 10 are a covenant.
Thats a good place to start.
EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope
ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.
Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest
EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.
Hello
The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2
ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company
How do the translators of the KJV obtain, 'covenant breakers', from the Koine Greek word, asynthetos?without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS
Those who are under the new covenant don’t need the old one. You seem to be promoting the idea that we are under the new covenant as well as the old one, but Jesus alluded to the idea that we can ruin our faith if we try to mix the two:
Hello WailingWall.
That translation you quoted (Romans 1:31).
How do the translators of the KJV obtain, 'covenant breakers', from the Koine Greek word, asynthetos?
Asynthetos just means not complex, i.e., simple.
I do not understand how they translated the Greek the way they did.
Hello WW.Hi klutedavid. Many years ago i watched one guy argue with another about a word being plural or singular in the greek. Went on for a week. No winner. What strikes my funny bone is the number of people who think they alone can come up with a better translation than the best 47 scholars and linguists of that time who were 400 yrs closer to the language. Its laughable but thats what they claim.
"Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar…But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother…Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise…But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman." -- (Galatians 4:21-31).
I don’t know if you appreciate what Paul is teaching here in Galatians 4
Hello WW.
I cannot see how asynthetos, i.e., not complex, could ever be translated as covenant breakers. This is one of the most bizarre translations I think I have ever seen.
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law." -- (Rom 9:30-32).
Christians live by one rule, not ten rules, and that one rule is love:
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