God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

[Steve Petersen]

I think that Messianic banquet with Jesus has already begun through the Church, His sacred body.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[woobadooba]

I think you are reading your own assumptions into Romans 14.

The funny thing is that I think you are doing the very thing you are saying I am doing.

As is the case with much of what Paul wrote, details are left out, which makes it difficult to interpret his writings. Peter even agreed that there were some hard sayings in Paul's writings (2 Peter 3:16). I see Romans 14:6 as one of these difficult texts.

Having said that, I am not convinced your conclusion is correct.

Nevertheless, I am going to dig deeper. I ordered a couple of books today. Perhaps it would be good for you to get the same books.
1. The Mystery of Romans: The Jewish Context of Paul's Letters
2. Paul within Judaism: Restoring the First-Century Context to the Apostle

 

[Doveaman]

Scripture below says He will give you rest.

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Ill bet one of the things they said we were to observe is Gods sabbath day.

Jesus encouraged the keeping of the law while He was alive because the old covenant law was still enforced during His life.

However, after the death of Jesus the old covenant law, which included a seventh-day rest, became obsolete and is no longer required for Christians:

"But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law." -- (Galatians 4:4-5).

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." -- (Galatians 3:23-26).

"For I through the law died to the law so that I might live for God." -- (Galatians 2:19).

 

[Doveaman]

The funny thing is that I think you are doing the very thing you are saying I am doing.

LOL

As is the case with much of what Paul wrote, details are left out, which makes it difficult to interpret his writings. Peter even agreed that there were some hard sayings in Paul's writings (2 Peter 3:16). I see Romans 14:6 as one of these difficult texts.

Having said that, I am not convinced your conclusion is correct.

Nevertheless, I am going to dig deeper.

Happy searching!

 

[Steve Petersen]

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." -- (Galatians 3:23-26).

Right, you are now under the supervision of the one who said, 'It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one jot or tittle of the Law to lose authority.'

 

[WailingWall]

However, after the death of Jesus the old covenant law, which included a seventh-day rest, became obsolete and is no longer required for Christians:

Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Yes there are some books that claim the ten are obsolete. In them same books youll find in Hebrews 4 the name of Jesus being change to Joshua for the same reason. To hide the truth

 

[WailingWall]

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." -- (Galatians 3:23-26).

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

 

[WailingWall]

"But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law." -- (Galatians 4:4-5).

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." -- (Galatians 3:23-26).

"For I through the law died to the law so that I might live for God." -- (Galatians 2:19).

All scriptures out of Galatians. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once.

 

[WailingWall]

"But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law." -- (Galatians 4:4-5).

Listen to your Redeemer

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

 

[bugkiller]

What days would a person be observing unto the Lord? Paul say "the." Wouldn't that mean a certain day instead of any day?

Good question. It seems rather obvious what days are being talked about.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

All scriptures out of Galatians. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once.

Something wrong with Galatians? The whole law is included in the book.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Listen to your Redeemer

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Are you claiming Jesus is not our Redeemer?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Isn't the rest people will have in the Messianic age a physical rest as in peace?

Never considered that before. I always thought of that period of time as being one of peace.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Show me one text in the writings of Paul where he specifically says that keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't matter anymore, and I will change my position. The word, "Sabbath," does not appear in Romans 14:5-6. Therefore, you cannot use this as a proof text to validate your belief that Paul was saying keeping the Sabbath day holy didn't matter anymore.

Based on the context, it is more reasonable to conclude that Paul was referring to days people designated for fasting, not sabbaths.

The problem with you and people who think like you is you don't know how to do proper exegesis. And if you do, you certainly aren't showing it. Instead, you read meaning into the Bible that isn't there in order to support your beliefs.

Peter spoke of people like you: 2 Peter 3:16 (NKJV) "as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."

Do you place more esteem a day of the week differently than the other? I think you do. So does Paul. What day do you think some others are making a distinction about? Paul is talking about "a" day and not "days."

Now you said you would change your position. I doubt it.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

A careful reading of Romans 14 shows an emphasis on food, not sabbath days.

It does not make sense that Paul, in speaking of the observance of a day in connection to eating (v. 6), would suddenly imply that the Sabbath is irrelevant to believers. The Sabbath is not the subject; food is.

Romans 14:6 (NKJV) “He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

In verse 6 we see what appears to be a parallel, showing a link between the observance of days and eating. What I see Paul saying here is people are free to eat or not to eat on certain days, and that none should judge the other by these things. Whether you choose to eat or not to eat, it does not add to or take anything away from your salvation in Christ.

Your quote says "the" which is singular. Your commentary changes to plural "days." How can you be talking about the same thing as Paul? The subject of day is in a sentence all by its self. The next sentence talks about eating all by its self.

We find evidence elsewhere in the Scriptures of a belief in fasting on certain days:

Isaiah 58:5 (NKJV) “Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the LORD?”

Luke 18:12 (NKJV) “I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.”

Matthew 9:14 (NKJV) “Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

Facts:
1. The emphasis of Romans 14 is on food.
2. There is no mention of the Sabbath in the chapter.
3. Other Scriptures show that certain days were designated for fasting.

Based on these facts, it makes sense to conclude that Romans 14:6 has nothing to do with the Sabbath, but is referring to days of fasting. People were free to eat or not to eat. It was their choice; they were not to be judged by these things, nor judge others by them.

We disagree based on Acts 15 alone.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Scripture below says He will give you rest.

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Ill bet one of the things they said we were to observe is Gods sabbath day.

Who was Jesus talking to in Mat 23?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Right, you are now under the supervision of the one who said, 'It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one jot or tittle of the Law to lose authority.'

Yes and Heb 7:12 alone is full proof jots and tittles of the law have indeed past.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

How does your meaning square with 7:6 which says - But now we are delivered from the law...? You intend for us to believe we are obligated to the law.

bugkiller

 

[listed]

All scriptures out of Galatians. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once.

Are the commandments the law covenant? Moses says they are in Deuteronomy 4:13.

 

[BobRyan]

Actually, God's Sabbath rest remains from since He finished His works of original creation, which was long before David: "For we who have believed do enter that rest...although His works were finished since the creation of the world." -- (Hebrews 4:3).

The 7th day Sabbath rest applicable to Adam and to those at Sinai - would have originated in Genesis 2:1-3 just as you say.

But at the 'very least' the Hebrews 4 argument quotes from Psalms 96 saying that "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - which means "at a minimum" it remains as it was in the time of David in Ps 96. But as you say - it actually remains from Genesis 2:1-3.

God's Sabbath rest that remains is not a 24 hour day of rest

Until you read what He said about it in Exodus 20:8-11. It has aways been the 7th day of the week and is in fact why we even HAVE 7 days in our week.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Spoken by God - to the people
Written by God - on stone.

Not "a perpetual, unceasing period of rest" - but rather 6 days of common work and one day of rest - "in real life".

Thus in Isaiah 66 we have TWO cycles for all mankind for all eternity even after the cross... in the New Earth " from New Moon to New Moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath" not "every day and from New Moon to New Moon" as some have imagined it.

The seventh-day rest was only a temporary shadow .

On the contrary - for all mankind for all eternity even after the cross... in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

The 7th day weekly Sabbath is a "memorial" not a "shadow".

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work

The argument "oh no it is not" or "oh no the 7th day is not the Sabbath of the LORD" -- is a short-lived argument in a sola-scriptura world.