God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

[LoveGodsWord]

You know exactly what was meant in the question asked as does everyone else. Do you ever commit any sin, or in that sense are you sinless in the flesh. Your avoidance in answering that simple question reflects very badly on you in my view. And you did promise to answer it. I clearly and forthrightly answered your question.
A humble and honest person would undoubtedly have answered, not evaded answering.
And in my view, anyone who is not prepared to honestly and forthrightly answer shows their christianity is not where it should be, to put it mildly

Stuart, I already answered your question in post in 514 and 519. If you do not like the answer that is not my fault. Tell me how they do not answer your question?

You asked me
"Do you claim to be sinless in your flesh?"

I answered
"There is no such thing as a sinless flesh. The Flesh is carnal (sinful) and we all have it."

Now tell me how I did not answer your question?

In Christ always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart, I already answered your question in post in 514 and 519. If you do not like the answer that is not my fault. Tell me how they do not answer your question? You asked me "Do you claim to be sinless in your flesh?" I answered "There is no such thing as a sinless flesh. The Flesh is carnal (sinful) and we all have it."

Now tell me how I did not answer your question?

In Christ always!

You knew exactly what was meant by the question asked. Everyone will note your refusal to state whether you ever commit any sin!

You know I have been to various denominational churches for fifty years. You learn things in that amount of time. And one thing I have learnt is, those who most earnestly state: you must obey the TC/ written code to remain saved/ be righteous least reflect what Christ termed the higher points of the law in their lives.
It is just pat statements from the head that has no bearing in the reality of their own lives.
Jesus considered the worst hypocrites to be the religious who mosr earnestly demanded the law be obeyed in order to attain heaven, for they could not practice what they preached.
And I am just being utterly honest here. The most flagrant breaking of Gods laws I have seen in any church i have been to, was at the sda church i went to for a couple of months to please a friend.
It's all scriptural you see:
The power of sin is the law 1cor15:56

Those who live under the law/ have righteousness of observing the law have the power of sin firmly in place in their lives. And assuredly, if you believe salvation/ being in a saved state hinges on obeying the written code, you are living under the law

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart, I already answered your question in post in 514 and 519. If you do not like the answer that is not my fault. Tell me how they do not answer your question?

You asked me
"Do you claim to be sinless in your flesh?"

I answered
"There is no such thing as a sinless flesh. The Flesh is carnal (sinful) and we all have it."

Now tell me how I did not answer your question?

In Christ always!

You won't convince anyone, apart from a fellow sda in my view. And they will be utterly baised.
Tell me, why are you so afraid to say whether you ever commit any sin?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Stuart,

I answered your question honestly. I did not know you had any secret code in your question. I answered it as I read it. If you do not like the answer I gave you that is not my fault as I gave you an honest answer to your question. As for the other things you say I do not know about them. All I know is that if we profess to know Jesus while knowingly and willfully breaking His commandments then we do not know him.

1Jo 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Sunday Worship is not a commandment of God. It is a teaching and tradition of man. The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th of the 10 (Ex 20:8-11). Jesus is the maker of it. He made it for us and commands us to keep it as a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28) Who do we obey God or man? If we choose to obey man when we have a knowledge of the truth we are not believing God and are in danger of God's Judgement.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

My prayer for you and everyone here is that we may be ready for when Jesus returns or our time on this earth is over because both Jesus and I care for you. Ok I haven't got time now maybe we can chat latter bye for now

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hi Stuart,

I answered your question honestly. I did not know you had any secret code in your question. I answered it as I read it. If you do not like the answer I gave you that is not my fault as I gave you an honest answer to your question. As for the other things you say I do not know about them. All I know is that if we profess to know Jesus while knowingly and willfully breaking His commandments then we do not know him.

1Jo 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Sunday Worship is not a commandment of God. It is a teaching and tradition of man. The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th of the 10 (Ex 20:8-11). Jesus is the maker of it. He made it for us and commands us to keep it as a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28) Who do we obey God or man? If we choose to obey man when we have a knowledge of the truth we are not believing God and are in danger og God's Judgement.

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

My prayer for you and everyone here is that we may be ready for when Jesus returns or our time on this earth is over because both Jesus and I care for you.

In Christ Always!

You know I want to feel sorry for you, it's not really a nice place to be just repeatedly stating you must obey the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation in order to be or remain in a saved state/ righteous. Reeling off the letter you cannot live up to is basically futile. However, my concern is and always has been the innocent and trusting who may actually believe you practice what you demand of others. So many have been crushed by people who demand of them what they do not demand of themselves.
And I'm afraid you show your insincerity by still trying to defend not answering the question you know was asked.

According to Paul Christ's law is fulfilled by carrying each others burdens/ loving them.
You show no love to people when you just reel off the letter of the written code and tell them they must obey it to remain in a saved state. For you demand of them what you do not demand of yourself. No love in that I'm afraid. Just hypocrisy

 

[stuart lawrence]

The leaders of the Pharisees of Jesus day knew the literal words of the then scriptures inside and out. They were gifted academically. They wore fine clothes and were highly educated. They set aside a seventh day sabbath, tithed down to their last mint dil and cumin. They did good deeds that everyone could see and insisted the people must uphold the law to a very high standard. They would not have gotten drunk, had extra marital affairs, used foul language, nor smoked I imagine if smoking had then been invented. They even laid flowers on the graves of the prophets murdered by their forefathers and said: We would never have acted as they did.
But it was not enough. Jesus said these people did not even know his father, and he reserved his harshest criticisms for them

 

[stuart lawrence]

So why was Jesus so upset with the Pharisees?

The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and place them on men's shoulders, while they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them
Matt:23:2-4

The Pharisees gave every outward appearance they were very pious and holy folk, who fully followed the law they Insisted the people must keep. But on the inside they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean. They didn't keep the law only they and God need know they broke.
The ordinary folk would have felt much guilt i imagine as they saw these people who appeared to live such Godly lives. They would not have dreamt the inside of the cup was not the same as the outside. And ordinary people would have been crushed I imagine, knowing in honest estimation of themselves they were not perfect on the inside as the Pharisees appeared to be.
And the Pharisees neglected the love of God( luke11:42) as everyone must who earnestly says you can only be in a saved state/ saved if you obey the law to a very high standard
So the Pharisees failed to love God or their neighbour, by demanding of their neighbour what they did not demand of themselves. The two greatest commandments upon which the entire law hung were ignored

 

[Bob S]

I commit sin, but for sure I do not commit sin when I don't do as LGW says that I have to keep Sabbath. There is no law telling me I have to keep Sabbath. The old covenant with its Sabbath laws ended at the Cross. Paul tells us in 2Cor 3:7-11 that the 10 commandments were temporary laws that were really the law that brought death. I am alive in Christ. My goal is to keep the commands that He gave us while He lived on this Earth as a man. His command cannot be found in the law that brought death. I know I belong to the truth because I believe in Jesus and I love others as He commanded. 1Jn3:19-24 Jesus implanted two things in me. One is the law of love and the other is His promise to all, the Holy Spirit.

I don't know all there is to know, but I do know that the old covenant was for Israel's way of life while in the desert and the land of Canaan. God gave them an exclusive covenant and it concerned how they were to live and become a Holy nation Ex19:5-6. It was not the plan of salvation. The new covenant given by Jesus while He sojourned on Earth gave all mankind the new covenant which is God's plan of salvation. Keeping days has never and certainly is not now the plan of salvation. It had nothing to do with salvation. Anyone that tells you that you must observe days to be saved is telling you an outright falsehood. There is absolutely no scriptural evidence to back up that claim.

 

[listed]

Stuart, I already answered your question in post in 514 and 519. If you do not like the answer that is not my fault. Tell me how they do not answer your question?

You asked me
"Do you claim to be sinless in your flesh?"

I answered
"There is no such thing as a sinless flesh. The Flesh is carnal (sinful) and we all have it."

Now tell me how I did not answer your question?

In Christ always!

The argument isn't about the flesh. The argument is about the born again soul and its obligations. There's no such thing as a born again soul found in the OT.

 

[listed]

Hi Stuart,

I answered your question honestly. I did not know you had any secret code in your question. I answered it as I read it. If you do not like the answer I gave you that is not my fault as I gave you an honest answer to your question. As for the other things you say I do not know about them. All I know is that if we profess to know Jesus while knowingly and willfully breaking His commandments then we do not know him.

1Jo 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Sunday Worship is not a commandment of God. It is a teaching and tradition of man. The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th of the 10 (Ex 20:8-11). Jesus is the maker of it. He made it for us and commands us to keep it as a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28) Who do we obey God or man? If we choose to obey man when we have a knowledge of the truth we are not believing God and are in danger of God's Judgement.

Exodus 31 makes you implied statement about Mark 2:27-28 or Exodus 31:13, 17 a lie. Take your pick. Either way you make the Scripture contradictory and unreliable.

 

[listed]

You know I want to feel sorry for you, it's not really a nice place to be just repeatedly stating you must obey the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation in order to be or remain in a saved state/ righteous. Reeling off the letter you cannot live up to is basically futile. However, my concern is and always has been the innocent and trusting who may actually believe you practice what you demand of others. So many have been crushed by people who demand of them what they do not demand of themselves.
And I'm afraid you show your insincerity by still trying to defend not answering the question you know was asked.

According to Paul Christ's law is fulfilled by carrying each others burdens/ loving them.
You show no love to people when you just reel off the letter of the written code and tell them they must obey it to remain in a saved state. For you demand of them what you do not demand of yourself. No love in that I'm afraid. Just hypocrisy

I don't believe he has answered my question: Is refusing or not keeping the sabbath purposeful and willful unrepentant sin? The problem he has is he's not in compliance with Exodus 20:8-11.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I don't believe he has answered my question: Is refusing or not keeping the sabbath purposeful and willful unrepentant sin? The problem he has is he's not in compliance with Exodus 20:8-11.

To be honest with you people who only have a shallow, or superfluous understanding of the letter have to duck answering questions put to them. He hasn't even the confidence to state whether or not he ever commits sin in his view! He implies failing to keep a Saturday sabbath proves you don't love Jesus according to his biblical quotes, therefore would mean you cannot be in a saved state. But at other times he says it hasn't crossed his mind I may not be saved. In truth I think he's all over the place with many if his beliefs as are his church. They accept people as Christians who understand Saturday to be the seventh day but fail to observe a Saturday sabbath. That is contrary to their stated beliefs i would say. For They accept as Christians, people who in their view must be in wilfull rebellion against God without conscience. The op seems at odds with his own church, who seem at odds with themselves

 

[listed]

To be honest with you people who only have a shallow, or superfluous understanding of the letter have to duck answering questions put to them. He implies failing to keep a Saturday sabbath proves you don't love Jesus according to his biblical quotes, therefore would mean you cannot be in a saved state. But at other times he says it hasn't crossed his mind I may not be saved. In truth I think he's all over the place with many if his beliefs as are his church. They accept people as Christians who understand Saturday to be the seventh day but fail to observe a Saturday sabbath. That is contrary to their stated beliefs i would say. For They accept as Christians, people who in their view must be in wilfull rebellion against God without conscience. The op seems at odds with his own church, who seem atodds with themselves

I think any supposed acceptance by them is pseudo, faux merely a front to deceive.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I think any supposed acceptance by them is pseudo, faux merely a front to deceive.

You maybe right. It may depend on which church you go to. The Church I went to they genuinely seemed to accept me as a Christian. I did notice there was no coherent view on the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart specific to the NC. Some ministers believed it was, some believed it wasn't. They were very weak doctrinally I would say, beyond quoting the partial letter of their pet subjects

 

[listed]

You maybe right. It may depend on which church you go to. The Church I went to they genuinely seemed to accept me as a Christian. I did notice there was no coherent view on the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart specific to the NC. Some ministers believed it was, some believed it wasn't. They were very weak doctrinally I would say, beyond quoting the partial letter of their pet subjects

I think most here are discussing religion and not a relationship with Jesus Christ and His Father.

 

[Doveaman]

Not true. Paul never says anything against God's Commandments - not even against God's Ten Commandments. Rather Paul says it is the TEN That define what sin is and what righteousness is - just as all of scripture affirms the same point.

The Bible says otherwise, no matter how you try to spin it:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry of condemnation" (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).

The ministry of condemnation which was engraved in letters on stone is undeniably the 10 commandments, and Paul tells us that we do not serve God according to the letter of 10 commandments, according to the ministry of condemnation which was engraved in letters on stone.

Until you read:

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Paul is saying in those verses that he was condemned for sin through the law of commandments. The law of commandments is therefore holy, righteous and good, not because it defines our righteousness, but because it condemns our sin.

Our righteousness is not defined by the law: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." (Romans 3:20).

We become conscious of sin through the law because the law condemns us for sin, as it did Paul.

Romans 2:26

• • King James Version
    Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
    
  • Young's Literal Translation
    If, therefore the uncircumcision the righteousness of the law may keep, shall not his uncircumcision for circumcision be reckoned?
  • Romans 6:16
    New American Standard Bible
    Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Romans 8:4

• • King James Version
    That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    
  • Young's Literal Translation
    that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
  • NKJV
  • 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Bible details matter.

Bible details do matter, and there is no 10 commandments in those Bible details you provided.

The righteous requirement of the law is not the 10 commandments. Gentiles obey the righteous requirement of the law even though they do not have the law of 10 commandments:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Romans 2:14-15).

The requirements of the law written on our hearts is love: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Love fulfills the righteous requirement of the law. And Gentiles, who do not have the law of 10 commandments, do obey the love required by the law, even though they do not have the law of 10 commandments:

“If those who are not circumcised keep the righteous requirements of the law...who is not circumcised physically and yet fulfills the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law.” -- (Romans 2:26-29).

The righteous requirement of the law can still be transgressed, even by those who obey the written letter of 10 commandments.

John 16
8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

(Sin of rejecting the Gospel)

10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;

(Rightousness. Jesus was perfect, sinless - not a transgressor of God's Law .. fully accepted by the Father as perfect, sinless)

11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Nothing about the 10 commandments in those Bible details either, no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[stuart lawrence]

What they don't understand are COVENANTS. The Ten Commandments was the 1st covenant, and it's sign of the covenant was the Sabbath. Our New Covenant is based on the blood of Jesus who has given us rest who have faith in Him, and our sign is the Cup of the New Covenant, again, based on the blood of Jesus. If they could ever get that through their understanding, then they could just walk in the Spirit, as some of them already do and be assured of their salvation. God wouldn't be giving His Spirit to those who are only trusting in the law - they are doing more than that - they also have faith in Jesus.

You know, I went to an SDA church to please someone with an open mind, I truly did. Having been raised in an exclusive church I wanted to be inclusive. And as Paul speaks of what he termed disputable matters in rom ch14, and one of them relates to the main difference between the sda and mainstream churches I figured it wasn't a problem.
The first time alarm bells rang in my head was when I heard two sda members laughing and joking as they casually took the Lord's name in vain. That truly shocked me, wouldn't it you? I've never come accross that before in any church h i have ever been to.
Then there was a woman in the Church who heartily called out AMEN every time the minister said something she approved of. She was in earnest you must obey the TC to attain to Heaven. I found out at the same time she was so enthusiastically joining in the church service, she was having multiple affairs. Her excuse? All sin is equal and no one's perfect.
One of the women who sometimes took the service before the minister spoke was sleeping with her boyfriend. I could go on and on. Now I am not naive enough to believe in every church i have ever been to no one has had sex outside of marriage. But I can say I have never witnessed such flagrant sin on such a scale as I witnessed at that church.
The Holy Spirit is the convictor of sin. People were saying with their lips: you must obey the TC, but they were not convicted of sin anywhere near as they should havs been in my view, and I am sure yours also.
The SDA insist you must observe the Levitical laws against eating unclean foods. If that were true, the leaders of the Christian church, many of whom had been Christ's disciples gave gentile converts a licence to sin( Acts ch15) for they did not ask gentiles to follow those laws. You and I both know it is ridiculous to believe the leaders of the Christian church gave gentiles a licence to sin.
So what does this prove? The SDA do not understand which law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers. WHo puts the law there? The Holy Spirit. They are not being led of the Holy Spirit in their doctrine regarding law, but the letter of partial law. I assume you agree, as you do not observe a set Saturday sabbath. They choose which law they believe is active. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead them to believe it obviously.
I've never seen as sda member who doesn't cut his hair at the side of his head or clip off the edges of his beard! ( Lev19:27)

When I sat in a group before the main service started at the sda church, I was overwhelmed by one thought. Where is the Holy Spirit? That was how I would sum up my experience. They were nice people, but not led of the Holy Spirit in their convictions, but the letter of partial scripture/ the written code

The danger of course, apart from what I have mentioned above is, they preach:
Obey the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation if you want to remain in a saved state.
And that is preaching what you cannot practice. And I am sure you know me by now, and what view I take on that. for my heart goes out to those crushed by people who demand of them what they do not demand of themselves.
I'm sure there are some very sincere folk who go to the sda church, my heart goes out to them too. But NOT to the ones who Keep demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves

 

[1stcenturylady]

You know, I went to an SDA church to please someone with an open mind, I truly did. Having been raised in an exclusive church I wanted to be inclusive. And as Paul speaks of what he termed disputable matters in rom ch14, and one of them relates to the main difference between the sda and mainstream churches I figured it wasn't a problem.
The first time alarm bells rang in my head was when I heard two sda members laughing and joking as they casually took the Lord's name in vain. That truly shocked me, wouldn't it you? I've never come accross that before in any church h i have ever been to.
Then there was a woman in the Church who heartily called out AMEN every time the minister said something she approved of. She was in earnest you must obey the TC to attain to Heaven. I found out at the same time she was so enthusiastically joining in the church service, she was having multiple affairs. Her excuse? All sin is equal and no one's perfect.
One of the women who sometimes took the service before the minister spoke was sleeping with her boyfriend. I could go on and on. Now I am not naive enough to believe in every church i have ever been to no one has had sex outside of marriage. But I can say I have never witnessed such flagrant sin on such a scale as I witnessed at that church.
The Holy Spirit is the convictor of sin. People were saying with their lips: you must obey the TC, but they were not convicted of sin anywhere near as they should havs been in my view, and I am sure yours also.
The SDA insist you must observe the Levitical laws against eating unclean foods. If that were true, the leaders of the Christian church, many of whom had been Christ's disciples gave gentile converts a licence to sin( Acts ch15) for they did not ask gentiles to follow those laws. You and I both know it is ridiculous to believe the leaders of the Christian church gave gentiles a licence to sin.
So what does this prove? The SDA do not understand which law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers. WHo puts the law there? The Holy Spirit. They are not being led of the Holy Spirit in their doctrine regarding law, but the letter of partial law. I assume you agree, as you do not observe a set Saturday sabbath. They choose which law they believe is active. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead them to believe it obviously.
I've never seen as sda member who doesn't cut his hair at the side of his head or clip off the edges of his beard! ( Lev19:27)

When I sat in a group before the main service started at the sda church, I was overwhelmed by one thought. Where is the Holy Spirit? That was how I would sum up my experience. They were nice people, but not led of the Holy Spirit in their convictions, but the letter of partial scripture/ the written code

The danger of course, apart from what I have mentioned above is, they preach:
Obey the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation if you want to remain in a saved state.
And that is preaching what you cannot practice. And I am sure you know me by now, and what view I take on that. for my heart goes out to those crushed by people who demand of them what they do not demand of themselves.
I'm sure there are some very sincere folk who go to the sda church, my heart goes out to them too. But NOT to the ones who Keep demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves

Wow, that church you visited would be shocking for any denomination. Personally, I've never been to a SDA church like that. Just the opposite.

It reminds me of this verse in Romans 2:23-24 "You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

 

[stuart lawrence]

Wow, that church you visited would be shocking for any denomination. Personally, I've never been to a SDA church like that. Just the opposite.

It reminds me of this verse in Romans 2:23-24 "You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

But if I had just been to the church on Saturdays, without being told what individuals were doing, I wouldn't have known what was taking place by members outside of the church.
I would instinctively have considered the woman who shouted out AMEN to comments from the minister as the most Godly of people

 

[1stcenturylady]

But if I had just been to the church on Saturdays, without being told what individuals were doing, I wouldn't have known what was taking place by members outside of the church.
I would instinctively have considered the woman who shouted out AMEN to comments from the minister as the most Godly of people

Yes, God will not be mocked. If they truly are God's children He will chastise them to cause them to turn around. That person who shouted out "Amen" sounds like she had a Pentecostal background. LOL