Gods Sabbath Day (2)

Your Sabbath doctrine is not rooted in the bible

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I would like to correct a very great misconception here. It is firmly routed in the Bible.

Not once have I quoted EGW on here to prove SDA doctrine so I do not feel I have to defend attacks against EGW here. What I read in my private life is my business. If I use EGW then anyone has the right to attack her, I have not so I will not get into a slanging match over her. It is just not an issue with me at all.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

I would like to correct a very great misconception here. It is firmly routed in the Bible.

Not once have I quoted EGW on here to prove SDA doctrine so I do not feel I have to defend attacks against EGW here. What I read in my private life is my business. If I use EGW then anyone has the right to attack her, I have not so I will not get into a slanging match over her. It is just not an issue with me at all.

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And not once you have been able to prove that the Sabbath has the same authority in the New Testament as it did in the Old Testament, Not once have been able to prove that it now a test for true beleivers today if they serve God or Satan, Not once have you been able to prove that Sunday will be the mark of the beast.

you can not prove it from the bible because it is not in the bible, your doctrines come from another source,

You are 0 for 3 Cliff

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Cliff



And not once you have been able to prove that the Sabbath has the same authority in the New Testament as it did in the Old Testament, Not once have been able to prove that it now a test for true beleivers today if they serve God or Satan, Not once have you been able to prove that Sunday will be the mark of the beast.

you can not prove it from the bible because it is not in the bible, your doctrines come from another source,

You are 0 for 3 Cliff

yours in Christ
deu 58

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Again, it is not correct.

If there is a law in the land, that law is forever unless it has been done away with.

The Sabbath had been there since Creation, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Paul kept the Sabbath along with all the Apostles..

The Sabbath was not an issue with the early Church.

No one objected to the Sabbath, it was a given by the believers.

Now when that is the case why would Paul need to say to someone who was keeping the Sabbath without any objection be told to keep the Sabbath?

They would not be told to keep it when it was kept.

There is just nothing to say that the Sabbath has been done away with.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

Again, it is not correct.

If there is a law in the land, that law is forever unless it has been done away with.

The Sabbath had been there since Creation, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Paul kept the Sabbath along with all the Apostles..

The Sabbath was not an issue with the early Church.

No one objected to the Sabbath, it was a given by the believers.

Now when that is the case why would Paul need to say to someone who was keeping the Sabbath without any objection be told to keep the Sabbath?

They would not be told to keep it when it was kept.

There is just nothing to say that the Sabbath has been done away with.

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The New Testament does not agree with you, No matter how large you make the text you can not obscure the truth of the Bible,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Cliff


The New Testament does not agree with you, No matter how large you make the text you can not obscure the truth of the Bible,

yours in Christ
deu 58

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Actually the New Testament does not agree with you. There is no Sunday text.

"8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Ex 20:8-11)

There is no record of repeal of the Sabbath commanment as given above. It is therefore not necessary to repaet this command in the New Testament.

52Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body. 53Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
"55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." (Luke 23:52-56)

Luke, writting writing after the death of Christ and His resurrection recognized that the Sabbath commandment is still to be observed.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

Actually the New Testament does not agree with you. There is no Sunday text.

"8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Ex 20:8-11)

There is no record of repeal of the Sabbath commanment as given above. It is therefore not necessary to repaet this command in the New Testament.

52Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body. 53Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
"55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." (Luke 23:52-56)


Luke, writting writing after the death of Christ and His resurrection recognized that the Sabbath commandment is still to be observed.

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Hmm So you do observe the Sabbath keeping it as required by the law of Moses in a Jewish fashion????? That is how those women kept it,

Your heart must really long for the temple so you can start sacrificing again,

To use your own words, The light of the New Testament teachings had not yet been revealed, In fact Jesus had not even been resurrected yet,

When the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples New light and New truth was revealed, That is the Present Truth for this generation,

And it is clearly taught in the Present Truth of the New Testament that no one day has any more importance than any other day, It is just that simple,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Hi Cliff2

Hmmm Now that is really odd, You say it is not that simple, Yet you can not show any verses that deal with instruction concerning proper Sabbath keeping in the New testament under the law of Christ, You say these instructions were not necessary because everybody already knew,

Now if they were all keeping the Sabbath of the Moasiac Law surly they were all Keeping it after the Jewish fashion considering they were being taught by Jews,

So this would mean that you as a Sabbath keeper are still required to Keep the Sabbath after the manner of the Mosaic law for as you your self have stated there are no instructions for keeping the Sabbath in the New Testament because everybody all ready knew about it, So I will assume you are correct and through some kind of osmosis process the Pagan Gentiles already knew about the Sabbath and how to keep it simply because they were in such close proximity to the Jews, Which would mean that those instructions have not changed and that is why they are not given to us in the New Testament

So my question to you is are you keeping the Sabbath today in a Jewish fashion as the {As you claim} apostles must have done or are you keeping it in a different manner? And if you are keeping it in a non Jewish/Mosaic law manner considering there are no writings in the New Testament authorizing you to exchange the Jewish practices for something else then where do you get the teachings and the authority to observe the Sabbath in a non biblical manner???

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Cliff2

Hmmm Now that is really odd, You say it is not that simple, Yet you can not show any verses that deal with instruction concerning proper Sabbath keeping in the New testament under the law of Christ, You say these instructions were not necessary because everybody already knew,

Now if they were all keeping the Sabbath of the Moasiac Law surly they were all Keeping it after the Jewish fashion considering they were being taught by Jews,

So this would mean that you as a Sabbath keeper are still required to Keep the Sabbath after the manner of the Mosaic law for as you your self have stated there are no instructions for keeping the Sabbath in the New Testament because everybody all ready knew about it, So I will assume you are correct and through some kind of osmosis process the Pagan Gentiles already knew about the Sabbath and how to keep it simply because they were in such close proximity to the Jews, Which would mean that those instructions have not changed and that is why they are not given to us in the New Testament

So my question to you is are you keeping the Sabbath today in a Jewish fashion as the {As you claim} apostles must have done or are you keeping it in a different manner? And if you are keeping it in a non Jewish/Mosaic law manner considering there are no writings in the New Testament authorizing you to exchange the Jewish practices for something else then where do you get the teachings and the authority to observe the Sabbath in a non biblical manner???

yours in Christ
deu 58

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We keep the Sabbath according to way Jesus Christ kept it. He is the one who gave it so why not keep it the same way as He did.

"8"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

Look at these verses. Whose Sabbath is it?

It says it is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

That means it is not even my Sabbath, it is God's Sabbath.

We are told here what we can do on the Sabbath. That is in general terms at least.

"27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Was cman made for the Sabbath? No. It says the Sabbath was made for man. That does not sell J E W but M A N. That is then for everyone not just the Children of Israel.

Jesus then makes it so great that He declares He is Lord of the Sabbath.

We are talking here about the 7th day of the week.

When God gave the command to the Children of Israel He made it forever. There is no similar command in the New Testament to keep the first day of the week. If it was ever to be then we would see a similar type of command to keep Sunday as the Sabbath. It is not there.

Hi Cliff

We keep the Sabbath according to way Jesus Christ kept it. He is the one who gave it so why not keep it the same way as He did.

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Jesus was under the law and kept the sabbath perfecly. He also kept in in a jewish manner, Where do you get your authority to do otherwise?

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Cliff


Jesus was under the law and kept the sabbath perfecly. He also kept in in a jewish manner, Where do you get your authority to do otherwise?

yours in Christ
deu 58

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Have another look, Jesus broke the Sabbath according to the way the Jews kept it. He picked some food as they went through a field. He healed on the Sabbath. That is something the Jews would not do.

The Bible never speaks of a change in the Sabbath, it is a man made concept.

In the book of Daniel God speaks to us that a time will come when men try and think to change times and His laws.

That has already happened.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

The Bible never speaks of a change in the Sabbath, it is a man made concept.

In the book of Daniel God speaks to us that a time will come when men try and think to change times and His laws.

That has already happened.

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Yes that is true and you SDA's are just as guilty as any one else

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Cliff


Yes that is true and you SDA's are just as guilty as any one else

yours in Christ
deu 58

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I am sure that there are many SDA's who are not perfect, have not heard any claim to be perfect. I was talking about changing times and laws, not perfectionism.

To my knowledge we have not changed times and laws.

We still keep the 7th day as the sabbath, still keep it from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

I am sure that there are many SDA's who are not perfect, have not heard any claim to be perfect. I was talking about changing times and laws, not perfectionism.

To my knowledge we have not changed times and laws.

We still keep the 7th day as the sabbath, still keep it from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

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But it was not always that way was it??

1 Testimonies for the Church Appendix
PAGE 116, "TIME TO BEGIN THE SABBATH"--FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT TEN YEARS SABBATH KEEPING ADVENTISTS OBSERVED THE SABBATH FROM 6 P. M. FRIDAY TO 6 P. M.
SATURDAY.

{oops! how did That happen.}
ELDER JOSEPH BATES IN HIS FIRST PAMPHLET ON THE PERPETUITY OF THE SABBATH OF THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT, PUBLISHED IN 1846, HAD GIVEN REASONS FOR THE SUPPOSED SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR THE OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH IN THIS WAY

A THOROUGH BIBLE INVESTIGATION OF THE QUESTION WAS MADE BY ELDER J. N. ANDREWS, WHO WROTE A PAPER SETTING FORTH THE BIBLICAL REASONS IN FAVOR OF THE SUNSET TIME.

THE PRESENTATION OF THE SUBJECT TO MRS. WHITE IN THIS VISION, GIVEN TWO DAYS LATER, ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS LINGERING IN SOME MINDS AND EFFECTED UNITY AMONG THE BELIEVERS.


Sister Ellen G White first receives all the information and then has a vision. Pretty convenient don't you think? So how did Sister Ellen White explain this little problem away.

1 Testimonies for the church, Ch 16 Pg 116
I saw that it is even so: "From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath." Said the angel: "Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is. I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them.

{ Whew!! That must of been a close one!!!!}



I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet." Said the angel: "If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject."

Actually the "light " on this is 4000 years old.

Le 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even,shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Does the Bible tell us what God means when he says "at even"


De 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt

So the light was already revealed in the Bible and was rejected by sister Ellen G White and the Adventists to follow the teachings of a sea captain named Joseph Bates. And it was that same Joseph Bates who received the blame for the Sabbath being kept incorrectly for ten years. No matter what the issue, Ellen G White is never at fault. If the fault cannot be blamed on someone else then the Adventists simply ignore it. If you notice any error in her writings that they cannot explain then they say you are being attacked and misled by Satan.

I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.

Ellen G White is long since dead and still the Adventists have not yet received an answer to this question.

yours in Christ
deu 58

This thread is about the Sabbath not an attack at every chance on EGW and SDA's.

Wonder why it happens all the time when we do not even bring her writings up at all.

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:

This thread is about the Sabbath not an attack at every chance on EGW and SDA's.

Wonder why it happens all the time when we do not even bring her writings up at all.

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Hmmm ok, you should remember that when posting on the Catholic threads discussing the Pope,

As to why I post EGW you already know, Your Sabbath teaching is not biblical, You are handling the word of God deceitfully

2co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

I know that you do not intentionally do this to deceive others but because you yourself have been deceived, You are not led by the Holy Spirit in your studies of the Bible, You are led by the Spirit of Prophecy,

Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
“It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words.”

Is it not true that in the SDA bibles all the verses are cross referenced to the Spirit Of Prophecy showing where in the writings Ellen White explains the "true meaning" of that particular verse?

The third angels message is why you are here, Part of that is to teach the Sabbath and part of that is to teach that Sunday is the Future mark of the beast, Also that if we reject your sabbath message that we will lose our salvation.

You are here to proselytize for your Church. A church that was founded in error by disobeying Scripture in setting a definite time for the return of Christ in 1844, Rather than admit your errors your church instead established a Prophetess to justify your errors by establishing a doctrine that teaches that atonement was not complete at the cross but is an on going work in the Heavenly Holy of Holies, Jesus himself spoke against just such a teaching as your sanctuary doctrine,

Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Your church has claimed that it has prophetic support {not biblical} that in 1844 Jesus went into the secret chambers ie. The Holy of Holies of the Heavenly Temple,

That original doctrine first received in vision by Hiram Edson describes an event that cannot be confirmed by Scripture, It was confirmed by subsequent visions and extensively expanded by Ellen White, Although many of the SDA congregation believe that these things can be proved by the Bible your church leaders past and present know it can not,

At the suggestion of F. D. Nichol he sent a questionnaire to twenty-seven leading Adventist scholars and found that they too had no adequate biblical defense for it. Some expressed the thought that Daniel 8:14 had nothing to do with its context and that the inaccurate word cleansed, which had lead the pioneers to connect Daniel 8:14 with the cleansing of the sanctuary in Leviticus 16, was simply a fortunate accident.

A committee appointed by the General Conference met for five years but could not resolve the issues. A minority admitted that the Adventist position could not be proved from the Bible. The majority wanted to solve the problem by ignoring context and language altogether

{To me cliff ignoring biblical context and language appears to be something most SDA's hold in common}

At the meeting of the forum Elder Cottrell declared that despite exhaustive efforts he could not prove the SDA view from the Bible. (In the 1950s, Don F. Neufeld of the Adventist Review had reached the same conclusion.) Cottrell does not want to abandon the traditional teaching. In fact, he desperately wishes to retain it. But he believes it solely on the say-so of Ellen White. (It is doubtful that anyone is really satisfied with such a "solution."How can we preach a message to the world if we cannot prove it from the Bible?)
Excerpts from a letter written by Robert Brinsmead

Adventist historian and theologian, LeRoy E. Froom states the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, which is not found in the Bible, is the Seventh-day Adventist church’s only reason for existence:

Indeed, if there is no actual Sanctuary in heaven, and no pastoring Great High Priest serving therein; and if there is no Judgment Hour message to herald from God to mankind at this time, then we have no justifiable place in the religious world, no distinctive denominational mission and message, no excuse for functioning as a separate church entity today. Movement of Destiny, p. 542.

Froom also states that any deviation from this doctrine of the Investigative Judgment strikes at Adventism’s very integrity:

Consequently any weakening or denial or submerging of the Sanctuary truth is not only a serious but a crucial matter. Any deviation or dereliction therefrom strikes at the heart of Adventism, and challenges its very integrity. Movement of Destiny, p. 542.

It is upon the above doctrine of the sanctuary that all of your arguments are based, And your own church leaders acknowledge it can not be supported by scripture, Your Sabbath teaching is a sub doctrine of that original doctrine,

You are not biblical you never have been biblical and you never will be biblical,

yours in Christ
deu 58