• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

God's Plan & The Flood

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by Gene Parmesan, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    If "The Flood" was a literal event that happened, was the need to start over the result of things not going according to God's Will? Or was The Flood always a part of God's plan?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +21,704
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    It’s always God’s plan to punish unrepentant sinners. How He choses to do so varies. But the end result is His exaltation.
     
  3. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Did God know that there would be unrepentant sinners and that He would punish them with the Flood leading to His exaltation when He decided to create man?
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +21,704
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Yes.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Interesting. Thank you for your answer.
     
  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,057
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    More like man's will was not alighed with God's will.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +10,399
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    It is evident that mankind had unlimited free will before the flood. However the demonic world had access to the human mind as well, thus the evil that resulted. After the flood God limited that demonic access.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  8. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    I appreciate you helping me try to make sense of all this.

    So is it true that man's will can override God's will? Or wouldn't it be the case that anything man does outside of God's will can only occur if God allows it? And if that's only the case when God allows it, wouldn't that still be within His will?
     
  9. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Does God know what demons will do before they do them? And does He have the power to prevent their actions? You suggest here that He can limit that access if He wants to, at least.
     
  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +10,399
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    God hasn't revealed exactly why he has chosen to do things the way he does, but it will all work out in the end. I don't question God's motives or methods. It makes for great speculation however.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,771
    Christian
    Married
    God said it grieved him that he made humanity. That doesn't sound like someone who's having their will accomplished.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Absolutely, I agree it is great speculation. And thank you for speculating with me. We couldn't understand the "mind" of God and with His complete picture of, well, everything, who would I be to say that demons and Satan and what not aren't necessary for the best possible existence? But I am curious if, with that in mind, things like the Flood and the fall of man, and all that are explicitly part of God's plan and was all along. Because sometimes it can seem that the way we read the events of the Flood it's as God reacting to prior events, which doesn't make sense considering He would be omnipotent. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. Haha!
     
  13. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    An excellent point. Could God have done a better job creating humanity then? Or was this more like He was disappointed it had to be that way but that was still His will?
     
  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +10,399
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Others
    God's "omniscience" is a man-made idea and flies in the face of free will. God indeed reacts to prior events. God didn't know Lucifer was going to rebel (and Lucifer likely didn't realize that he was 'rebelling' at the time).
     
  15. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,057
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    There are two theological views on what free will really means. This has been exhaustedly debated between Armenians and Calvsnists. For what it's worth, I lean Arminean.
    I'll find a short video to help explain.
     
  16. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,057
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Here you go..
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

    709
    +822
    United States
    SDA
    Single
    The creation and flood accounts. These hold the answers to your question.

    Waters above. On the second day of the creation account, God divides the waters with the firmament (sky), putting waters above the firmament and waters below the firmament.

    Genesis 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    Land and sea. The waters below became sea on the third day, when God created land.

    Genesis 1:9-10 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
    Mist only. God watered the earth with a mist up until the time of the flood. This explains why no one believed Noah when he told them that it would rain.

    Genesis 2:5-6 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
    Cubits. The waters above and waters below (and in the earth), were sufficient to cover the tallest mountains completely, by some 22.5 feet, if my math is correct. A cubit is 18 inches.

    Genesis 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.​

    Foreordained. God had a plan, which was set forth before creation.

    From the foundation of the world...
    Also, Bible prophecy proves that God has foreknowledge.
    Conclusion. The Bible makes it clear. God knew ahead of time.

    Why? Love.

    John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  18. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,771
    Christian
    Married
    I don't know where this idea comes from that everything that happens on this Earth is God's will.
    It's irrational as far as I'm concerned... You can't read the Bible honestly and come to that conclusion.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  19. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Very interesting. Thanks for your answer.
     
  20. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Well-Known Member

    695
    +534
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Thank you, that makes sense to me. It doesn't seem that omniscience and free will go together.
     
Loading...