God's Plan & The Flood

[Gene Parmesan]

If "The Flood" was a literal event that happened, was the need to start over the result of things not going according to God's Will? Or was The Flood always a part of God's plan?

 

[Hammster]

It’s always God’s plan to punish unrepentant sinners. How He choses to do so varies. But the end result is His exaltation.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

It’s always God’s plan to punish unrepentant sinners. How He choses to do so varies. But the end result is His exaltation.

Did God know that there would be unrepentant sinners and that He would punish them with the Flood leading to His exaltation when He decided to create man?

 

[Hammster]

Did God know that there would be unrepentant sinners and that He would punish them with the Flood leading to His exaltation when He decided to create man?

Yes.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Yes.

Interesting. Thank you for your answer.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If "The Flood" was a literal event that happened, was the need to start over the result of things not going according to God's Will? Or was The Flood always a part of God's plan?

More like man's will was not alighed with God's will.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is evident that mankind had unlimited free will before the flood. However the demonic world had access to the human mind as well, thus the evil that resulted. After the flood God limited that demonic access.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

More like man's will was not alighed with God's will.

I appreciate you helping me try to make sense of all this.

So is it true that man's will can override God's will? Or wouldn't it be the case that anything man does outside of God's will can only occur if God allows it? And if that's only the case when God allows it, wouldn't that still be within His will?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

It is evident that mankind had unlimited free will before the flood. However the demonic world had access to the human mind as well, thus the evil that resulted. After the flood God limited that demonic access.

Does God know what demons will do before they do them? And does He have the power to prevent their actions? You suggest here that He can limit that access if He wants to, at least.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Does God know what demons will do before they do them? And does He have the power to prevent their actions? You suggest here that He can limit that access if He wants to, at least.

God hasn't revealed exactly why he has chosen to do things the way he does, but it will all work out in the end. I don't question God's motives or methods. It makes for great speculation however.

 

[renniks]

God said it grieved him that he made humanity. That doesn't sound like someone who's having their will accomplished.

If "The Flood" was a literal event that happened, was the need to start over the result of things not going according to God's Will? Or was The Flood always a part of God's plan?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

God hasn't revealed exactly why he has chosen to do things the way he does, but it will all work out in the end. I don't question God's motives or methods. It makes for great speculation however.

Absolutely, I agree it is great speculation. And thank you for speculating with me. We couldn't understand the "mind" of God and with His complete picture of, well, everything, who would I be to say that demons and Satan and what not aren't necessary for the best possible existence? But I am curious if, with that in mind, things like the Flood and the fall of man, and all that are explicitly part of God's plan and was all along. Because sometimes it can seem that the way we read the events of the Flood it's as God reacting to prior events, which doesn't make sense considering He would be omnipotent. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. Haha!

 

[Gene Parmesan]

God said it grieved him that he made humanity. That doesn't sound like someone who's having their will accomplished.

An excellent point. Could God have done a better job creating humanity then? Or was this more like He was disappointed it had to be that way but that was still His will?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Absolutely, I agree it is great speculation. And thank you for speculating with me. We couldn't understand the "mind" of God and with His complete picture of, well, everything, who would I be to say that demons and Satan and what not aren't necessary for the best possible existence? But I am curious if, with that in mind, things like the Flood and the fall of man, and all that are explicitly part of God's plan and was all along. Because sometimes it can seem that the way we read the events of the Flood it's as God reacting to prior events, which doesn't make sense considering He would be omnipotent. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. Haha!

God's "omniscience" is a man-made idea and flies in the face of free will. God indeed reacts to prior events. God didn't know Lucifer was going to rebel (and Lucifer likely didn't realize that he was 'rebelling' at the time).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I appreciate you helping me try to make sense of all this.

So is it true that man's will can override God's will? Or wouldn't it be the case that anything man does outside of God's will can only occur if God allows it? And if that's only the case when God allows it, wouldn't that still be within His will?

There are two theological views on what free will really means. This has been exhaustedly debated between Armenians and Calvsnists. For what it's worth, I lean Arminean.
I'll find a short video to help explain.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I appreciate you helping me try to make sense of all this.

So is it true that man's will can override God's will? Or wouldn't it be the case that anything man does outside of God's will can only occur if God allows it? And if that's only the case when God allows it, wouldn't that still be within His will?

Here you go..

 

[Freth]

The creation and flood accounts. These hold the answers to your question.

Waters above. On the second day of the creation account, God divides the waters with the firmament (sky), putting waters above the firmament and waters below the firmament.

Genesis 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
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Land and sea. The waters below became sea on the third day, when God created land.

Genesis 1:9-10 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
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Mist only. God watered the earth with a mist up until the time of the flood. This explains why no one believed Noah when he told them that it would rain.

Genesis 2:5-6 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
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Cubits. The waters above and waters below (and in the earth), were sufficient to cover the tallest mountains completely, by some 22.5 feet, if my math is correct. A cubit is 18 inches.

Genesis 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.​

Foreordained. God had a plan, which was set forth before creation.

From the foundation of the world...

• ...God loved us. John 17:24
• ...God chose us. Ephesians 1:4-6, Revelation 17:8
  
• ...Jesus was slain. Hebrews 4:3, 1 Peter 1:18-20, Revelation 13:8

Also, Bible prophecy proves that God has foreknowledge.
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Conclusion. The Bible makes it clear. God knew ahead of time.

Why? Love.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.​

 

[renniks]

An excellent point. Could God have done a better job creating humanity then? Or was this more like He was disappointed it had to be that way but that was still His will?

I don't know where this idea comes from that everything that happens on this Earth is God's will.
It's irrational as far as I'm concerned... You can't read the Bible honestly and come to that conclusion.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I don't know where this idea comes from that everything that happens on this Earth is God's will.
It's irrational as far as I'm concerned... You can't read the Bible honestly and come to that conclusion.

Very interesting. Thanks for your answer.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

God's "omniscience" is a man-made idea and flies in the face of free will. God indeed reacts to prior events. God didn't know Lucifer was going to rebel (and Lucifer likely didn't realize that he was 'rebelling' at the time).

Thank you, that makes sense to me. It doesn't seem that omniscience and free will go together.