GOD'S NAME - IS IT IMPORTANT?

HARK! said:

That's not his name. I thought you said that you recognized the difference between "I am," and "I will be."

Click to expand...

Sure it is. 90% of translations seem to disagree with you here and on top of them you cannot even tell me the difference in the translations of "I AM WHO/THAT I AM" or "I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE"

YHWH / YAHWEH “HE IS, SELF EXISTENT, LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) – strictly speaking, the only proper name for God in the old testament. The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14).

You will not even tell me if you believe Jesus is God. This was important to our discussion but if you do not want to answer the question it says a lot already.

HARK! said:

I understand that what you presented is a mistranslation; and I recognize the difference between the mistranslation, and the more accurate translation.

If you are willing to accept doctrine that is built on a mistranslation; then I see no point in continuing the discussion.

Click to expand...

So what your actually saying is that you cannot tell me the difference between the two translations of "I AM WHO/THAT I AM" (90% of all translations) or "I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE". To me they mean the same thing and that is what the Hebrew meaning is “HE IS, SELF EXISTENT". You believe those translation mean something different but cannot tell anyone what it means while 90% of all translations support the first translation and you will not tell anyone if you think Jesus is God? ......okay. How did you want me to respond to that? To me you need to explain yourself a little better HARK! if you want to have a discussion. We are probably not on the same path if you think we still need to do animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins and you do not believe Jesus is God.

HARK! said:

Argumentum ad populum? Really? I would encourage you to look up those words in a dictionary to understand the difference.

You might also want to look up the words "name," and "title."

Then you might want to dig into studying Hebrew.

Another more accurate rendering, is "I am becoming what I am becoming, or I will become what I will become."
Though don't take my word for it, over the mistranslations and and the doctrine that is built on it. Do your own research of the Hebrew; and apply the subtle differences between those possible, yet more accurate, renderings to your own understanding.

Here they are for review:

1.) I will be what I will be.
2.) I will become, what I will become.
3.) I am becoming what I am becoming.

I tend to lean toward #3.

Click to expand...

Well your the one trying to argue that 90% of bible translations are wrong not me. In your post here, I see your only part quoting me missing the part about your belief that Jesus is not God and we still need to do animal sacrifices for sin . Does that seem convenient to you in regards to our conversation? Please do not be condescending dear friend. You have not supported anything that you believe here with scripture. All you have provided is an opinion and made accusations you cannot prove. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. We will have to agree to disagree.

HARK! said:

Exodus 3

15 Elohim, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' YHWH, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name FOREVER, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.-

Yahshua is not YHWH.

If you reject the distinction; this conversation is pointless.

Click to expand...

How does Exodus 3:15 say Jesus is not YHWH? - Yep it doesn't. ELOHIM and YHWH names of God yes?

HARK! said:

Yahshua is not YHWH.

Click to expand...

God in the Old Testament YHWH

1. I AM (Exodus 3:14–15; Isaiah 48:12)
2. The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)
3. The Light (Psalm 27:1)
4. The Rock (Psalm 18:2)
5. Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)
6. Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)
7. The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)
8. God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8)
9. The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9)
10. First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)

Jesus’ Reference to Himself as YHWH

1. I AM (John 8:58)
2. The Shepherd (John 10:11)
3. The Light (John 8:12)
4. The Rock (Matthew 7:24)
5. Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)
6. Judge of all (John 5:22)
7. The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)
8. Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31)
9. The Sower (Matthew 13:3–9)
10. First and the Last (Revelation 1:17–18)

Are you sure Jesus is not YHWH dear friend? (Got Questions)

HARK! said:

Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy. Do you have a more substantial argument?

Are you familiar with Karaite Judaism? They reject Rabbinical Judaism; and are dedicated to strict observance of what scripture actually says. In my opinion they would know the Torah better than anyone on earth.

Here is an excerpt from, a now dead, web page regarding this subject:

The Sacred Name of God deals with the Created Realm.

Exodus 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, "The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, "What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" 14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, "I AM has sent me to you."' 15 Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: "The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.' NKJV

This is the common translation of these verses as rendered in the New King James Version. Here is a more accurate translation of this same verse without changing God's name from the orginal Hebrew but using the English alphabet spelling.

"And Moses said to Elohim: behold when I come to the children of Israel and say to them: the Elohim (Almighty One) of your fathers has sent me to you; and they say to me; 'What is His Name?' What shall I say to them? And Elohim said to Moses: EHYEH ASHER EHYEH! (I shall be what I shall be!). And he said: say thus to the children of Israel: EHYEH (I shall be) has sent me to you. And Elohim again said to Moses: Thus shall you say to the children of Israel: YHWH, the Elohim of you fathers, "Elohey Abraham", "Elohey Yishaq" we "Elohey Yaaqob" has sent me to you. This is my Name forever, and this is My Mention to all generations!"

EHYEH is the first person singular, simple future tense of the Hebrew verb HAYAH, to be. You may recognise this word as being commonly tranlated as 'was' in Gen 1:2.

Another way to translate this is 'I am becoming what I am becoming'

Strong's Concordance #1961 - hayah. A prime root to exist, be, become or come to pass.

Another tranlation would be: I bring to pass what I bring to pass.

These are all more meaningful that simply I Am What I Am.

This expanded meaning is consistent with The Reluctant Messenger's view that we are the part of God that is growing and becoming our true destiny as God's children. In other words, God is still becoming whatever it is God is becoming through us.

http://www.karaite-korner.org/light-of-israel/the_name.shtml


So what do you have?

Click to expand...

All you have provided here is someones opinion. How does this help your cause? It doesn't

JESUS IS GOD - YAHWEH

The third chapter of Exodus describes the encounter between Moses and God about the Lord’s name: “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM’; and He said, ‘Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you”’” (Exodus 3:13–14, NASB).

The phrase I am who I am in the Hebrew is YHWH, often translated as “LORD,” “Yahweh,” or “Jehovah,” and is referred to in theology as the tetragrammaton (“a word having four letters”). The literal translation of the term is “I be that I be,” a statement that makes reference to God’s self-existence—He is not dependent upon anything else for His existence.

One of the foundational Christian doctrines is that Jesus is God. He is the Jehovah/YHWH/Yahweh described in Exodus 3. This teaching can be difficult to grasp because the Bible also says there is only one God: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one” (Deuteronomy 6:4).

The Bible’s claim that only a single God exists is called monotheism. The doctrine of Jesus being God does not mean that more than one God exists (polytheism) or that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity equates to there being three gods (tritheism) or that there is one God who represents Himself as one person in three different ways or modes (modalism).

Instead, Christianity teaches that there is one God who exists in triune fashion as three Persons within one God, i.e., one “what” but three “who’s”; a plurality of Persons who are one in essence. Referencing the depth of this doctrine, A. W. Tozer writes, “Our sincerest effort to grasp the incomprehensible mystery of the Trinity must remain forever futile, and only by deepest reverence can it be saved from actual presumption. We cover our deep ignorance with words, but we are ashamed to wonder, we are afraid to whisper ‘mystery’” (The Knowledge of the Holy, p. 18).

The Bible affirms the Son of God’s place in the Godhead in both the Old and New Testaments. One passage affirming the Son’s deity in the Old Testament is Psalm 2: “The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, ‘Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!’ . . . Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!” (Psalm 2:1–3, 12, NASB).

In the New Testament, Jesus affirms His deity in many places. In His general teachings, He refers to Himself in the same way God is described in the Old Testament and does the same in twenty of His parables.

Jesus said many things that equated Himself with Yahweh: “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9) and “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). He asked God, “Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5). He said, “My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working” (John 5:17).

In addition, Jesus accepted worship nine times in the gospels, forgave sins, and commanded His disciples to pray in His name. Jesus never said—as other prophets did—“Thus says the Lord”; rather, Jesus said, “I say,” and commanded His disciples to baptize in His name.

The New Testament writers also refer to Jesus as God many times (e.g., Matthew 3:16–17; John 1:1–3,14; John 20:28; Romans 9:5; Philippians 2:5–8, 9–11; Colossians 1:16–19; 2:9–10; 1 Timothy 6:15; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8; 13:8; Revelation 1:8, 17; 2:8; 17:14; 19:16; 21:6; 22:13).

In conclusion, the teaching of Scripture is that Jesus is indeed Yahweh, the I AM, the God of the Old Testament. (Got Questions)

All you have provided is someone opinion that has disappeared from the web.

Hope this helps.

HARK! said:

Where does Exodus 3:15 say Jesus is YHWH? Yep it doesn't. Elohim is not a name. Elohim is translated as God. It's a title, sometimes attributed to false gods.

Click to expand...

That was my argument to you. I posted the new testament scriptures confirming JESUS ownership of the name YHWH "I AM" already in post # 68, perhaps you missed it? ELOHIM is a name that YHWH calls himself it is a name for God and as the OP shows God has many names in the old and new testament scriptures that are descriptive of him. YHWH as already stated in the OP, is God's primary name in the old testament scriptures that Jesus claims in the new testament scriptures.

Agallagher said:

No one really knows Gods true name, I believe.

Click to expand...

Agreed Agallagher, God has many descriptive names because he is God. We cannot describe God with a single name. Although YHWH is the primary name used for God meaning self existent one or I AM in old testament scriptures. Jesus took ownership of the name in the new testament.

HARK! said:

Right someone who actually speaks Hebrew, and has a lineage that has goes back to Abraham, and a family history of not subscribing to the inflated doctrine of Rabbinic Judaism; but, hey, what does his opinion hold over doctrine, that is built on Constantine the Sun worshiper's understanding of the Torah?

Click to expand...

I guess in your view none of the 90% of English bible translations and the translators of the old testament scriptures that disagree with you do not speak Hebrew? I do not have any problem with either translation to be honest. I see them as having the same meaning - "I AM" - Self existent one.