God's love is not unconditional

[FreeGrace2]

Is John MacArthur A Liar ? Yes.

He was given eternal life by Jesus and shall never perish. John 10:28

And what "lie" did he say? And how do you know his view denotes a lie, which means he believes differently than what he said.

Do Liars Burn In Hell Forever and Ever ? Yes.
• Revelation 21:8

So then, is your view that Jesus didn't die for certain, specific sins? Really??

Are Those who take The Mark of The Beast and worship The Beast Tormented in The Lake of Fire Forever and Ever. Yes.
• Revelation 14:9-11

Please explain the FACT that many unbelievers will become believers in the last part of the Tribulation.

If ANY believer EVER ends up in the lake of fire, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 is untrue. So, either He doesn't know everything, which denies His omniscience, or He lied.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

He was given eternal life by Jesus and shall never perish. John 10:28

And what "lie" did he say? And how do you know his view denotes a lie, which means he believes differently than what he said.


So then, is your view that Jesus didn't die for certain, specific sins? Really??


Please explain the FACT that many unbelievers will become believers in the last part of the Tribulation.

If ANY believer EVER ends up in the lake of fire, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 is untrue. So, either He doesn't know everything, which denies His omniscience, or He lied.

.........“IF ANYONE

ANYONE

ANYONE

ANYONE worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever and Ever; and They have No Rest Day Or Night, Who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

• Revelation 14:9-11




A Person can say they are "Saved" until they are blue in the face. IF they take the mark of the beast and worship the beast they will be Tormented in the Lake of Fire Forever And Ever PERIOD.

 

[FreeGrace2]

.........“IF ANYONE

ANYONE

ANYONE

ANYONE worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever and Ever; and They have No Rest Day Or Night, Who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

• Revelation 14:9-11




A Person can say they are "Saved" until they are blue in the face. IF they take the mark of the beast and worship the beast they will be Tormented in the Lake of Fire Forever And Ever PERIOD.

This response reveals that you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28.

And failed to answer my question about which specific sins did Jesus fail to die for, along with supporting Scripture, and failed to explain how any unbelievers during the last part of the Tribulation can become saved through evangelization.

OK.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

This response reveals that you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28.

And failed to answer my question about which specific sins did Jesus fail to die for, along with supporting Scripture, and failed to explain how any unbelievers during the last part of the Tribulation can become saved through evangelization.

OK.

The Lord Jesus Christ Specifically said those who Blaspheme The Holy Spirit Will Not Be Forgiven.

His Word also Specifically Says those who take the mark of the beast and worship the beast will be tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire

It is YOU who doesn't believe what Jesus says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Lord Jesus Christ Specifically said those who Blaspheme The Holy Spirit Will Not Be Forgiven.

Are you now charging John M with blasphemy??

His Word also Specifically Says those who take the mark of the beast and worship the beast will be tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire

In John 10:28, did Jesus say: "I given them eternal life, and as long as they don't take the mark of the beast, they shall never perish." ??

It is YOU who doesn't believe what Jesus says.

Your viewpoint denies specifically what Jesus said in John 10:28.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Are you now charging John M with blasphemy??


In John 10:28, did Jesus say: "I given them eternal life, and as long as they don't take the mark of the beast, they shall never perish." ??


Your viewpoint denies specifically what Jesus said in John 10:28.

I've already explained myself thoroughly.

If you take that mark of the Beast you will be Tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've already explained myself thoroughly.

As have I.

If you take that mark of the Beast you will be Tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever.

But the difference seems to be that your posts are just a repetition of talking points, while I've provided explanation of my view and asked questions that it seems you are not willing or able to answer.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

But the difference seems to be that your posts are just a repetition of talking points, while I've provided explanation of my view and asked questions that it seems you are not willing or able to answer.

That's the thing though. I posted crystal clear scriptures that show Who will be tormented in the lake of fire and Not Be Forgiven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's the thing though. I posted crystal clear scriptures that show Who will be tormented in the lake of fire and Not Be Forgiven.

Still no answer on your insinuation that John M is a blasphemer.

And, if believers EVER end up in the lake of fire, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 cannot be true.

That's an opinion I just cannot accept.

My view is that no believer will ever take the mark of the beast. And if all or most all unbelievers take the mark of the beast, who will be left to evangelize? No one.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I've already explained myself thoroughly.

If you take that mark of the Beast you will be Tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever.

In context, Rev 14:6-11 are the choices set before UNBELIEVERS.Believers have already accepted the Gospel.

The angels/witnesses bring the choice of the eternal gospel or the choice of eternal death...... To unbelievers.

Believers have already believed in the Gospel and will be kept by the power of God.

John 3:36 is Rev 14:6-11 in a nutshell. Believers have already accepted the gospel. In the tribulation, unbelievers are not going to choose the mark of the beast ignorantly. They will willingly choose, because they have had the eternal gospel witnessed to them in MANY,MANY ways. Rev 14:6.

New American Standard Bible
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

 

[Jonathan Leo]

I dont buy that. Jesus loved everyone while He was here in the flesh.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The verse excludes no one.

The world in John 3:16 represents Israel. Jesus died for the Jews. He was their saviour. They rejected him so the gentiles were grafted in

 

[FreeGrace2]

The world in John 3:16 represents Israel. Jesus died for the Jews. He was their saviour. They rejected him so the gentiles were grafted in

If Jesus only died for Jews, then no Gentile could ever be saved. That is pure nonsense. The "world" in John 3:16 is everyone in humanity. He died for everyone, as 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9 very plainly SAY.

And it's clearly indicated in 1 John 2:2.

And how could any Gentile be "grafted in" if Jesus died only for Jews?

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Your profile indicates "Christian". Your claim here is anything but.

If Jesus only died for Jews, then no Gentile could ever be saved. That is pure nonsense. The "world" in John 3:16 is everyone in humanity. He died for everyone, as 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9 very plainly SAY.

And it's clearly indicated in 1 John 2:2.

And how could any Gentile be "grafted in" if Jesus died only for Jews?

Romans 11:11-31
Just saying.
It was the Jews who were waiting on their messiah, not the gentiles. Remember, the gentiles were outcasts to the Jews but through Christ there is now neither Jew nor gentile.
If it was always a case of neither Jew nor gentile, then
1. The Bible would have always mentioned that Jews and gentiles were one
2. As scripture shows the opposite, gentiles wouldn’t need to be grafted in
3. The messiah would be messiah to all. In part this is correct but only after the Jews rejected Him.
The parable about the king inviting His guests but none turned up, so He ordered the outsiders to join Him,is as clear a description of what I’m talking about.

You say I’m not Christian, yet I understand more of the Bible than you do??
Also, you immediately go on the offence and instead of validating your point to what could be my error ( but I highly doubt it) you have the audacity to say I’m not Christian. Who made you Jesus Christ?? Oh sorry, by your abrupt attitude towards me, even if I weren’t a Christian, you certainly don’t show the characteristics of one.
God help you
Amen

 

[Gr8Grace]

It was the Jews who were waiting on their messiah, not the gentiles.

The gentiles were supposed to know that their Messiah was coming. That was Israel's privilege to Witness the Messiah to a lost and dying world.

But Israel became proud and arrogant and stopped witnessing Christ to the 'dogs.' And they were cut off from being Gods client nation to witness the Gospel to the WORLD(all men everywhere.)

John 10:16~~New American Standard Bible
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

1 John 2:2~~New American Standard Bible
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all men everywhere, through out time. John 3:16.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You say I’m not Christian, yet I understand more of the Bible than you do??

No to both statements.

First, I said your posts are "anything but". Second, no, your understanding of the Bible is very confused.

Also, you immediately go on the offence and instead of validating your point to what could be my error ( but I highly doubt it) you have the audacity to say I’m not Christian.

Maybe by reading a bit slower and actually grasping what is written would be of some help.

Who made you Jesus Christ??

I never even hinted at such a stupid thing. What would make anyone come to such a ridiculous conclusion?

Oh sorry, by your abrupt attitude towards me, even if I weren’t a Christian, you certainly don’t show the characteristics of one.
God help you
Amen

Can't take direct refutation, huh? Then why bother on these forums?

I have provided clear support from Scripture for my views. What have you provided from Scripture for your views?

This was your first post to me:
"The world in John 3:16 represents Israel. Jesus died for the Jews. He was their saviour. They rejected him so the gentiles were grafted in".

I pointed out the obvious error in that, and asked how any Gentile could be saved if Jesus died only for the Jews. Where was your answer to my question?

Oh, yeah. There wasn't any answer. The question was legitimate.

A lack of answering questions shows how weak one's position to be.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

No to both statements.

First, I said your posts are "anything but". Second, no, your understanding of the Bible is very confused.


Maybe by reading a bit slower and actually grasping what is written would be of some help.


I never even hinted at such a stupid thing. What would make anyone come to such a ridiculous conclusion?


Can't take direct refutation, huh? Then why bother on these forums?

I have provided clear support from Scripture for my views. What have you provided from Scripture for your views?

This was your first post to me:
"The world in John 3:16 represents Israel. Jesus died for the Jews. He was their saviour. They rejected him so the gentiles were grafted in".

I pointed out the obvious error in that, and asked how any Gentile could be saved if Jesus died only for the Jews. Where was your answer to my question?

Oh, yeah. There wasn't any answer. The question was legitimate.

A lack of answering questions shows how weak one's position to be.

Fair play

 

[Gr8Grace]

The world in John 3:16 represents Israel. Jesus died for the Jews. He was their saviour. They rejected him so the gentiles were grafted in

This actually was the sentiment of the Jew's when the Lord Jesus Christ came. They were so far in reversionism, that they had stopped witnessing to the gentiles and didn't believe(any longer) that the Messiah was actually coming for the 'filthy dogs' or the gentiles also.

Just curious.

I can see how one can come to this conclusion. That Jesus Christ just died for the Jews. It was what Israel, in their extreme rebellion,apostasy was teaching......."the Messiah was for His 'superior' people only."

They had forgotten that the Messiah was coming for the whole world and was going to die for ALL men everywhere,past,present and future.

Isa 49:6~~New International Version
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."

Isa 42:6~~New International Version
"I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,

 

[Jonathan Leo]

This actually was the sentiment of the Jew's when the Lord Jesus Christ came. They were so far in reversionism, that they had stopped witnessing to the gentiles and didn't believe(any longer) that the Messiah was actually coming for the 'filthy dogs' or the gentiles also.

Just curious.

I can see how one can come to this conclusion. That Jesus Christ just died for the Jews. It was what Israel, in their extreme rebellion,apostasy was teaching......."the Messiah was for His 'superior' people only."

They had forgotten that the Messiah was coming for the whole world and was going to die for ALL men everywhere,past,present and future.

Isa 49:6~~New International Version
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."

Isa 42:6~~New International Version
"I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,

Thanks for clearing hat up
God Bless
Amen

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

RC Sproul just the other day went to be with the Lord.

Great video Bob, love R.C., thanks for sharin'. To comment, I think where people might get messed up sometimes is assuming a general atonement that applies to everyone, and with that the notion that God loves unconditionally in the atonement, and from that therefore God loves everyone unconditionally. The first error is in assuming a general atonement, rather than a particular atonement, and the implications of the penal (legal) and substitutional nature of the atonement. This section of the forum brings back some good memories. God bless you and yours brother!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Great video Bob, love R.C., thanks for sharin'. To comment, I think where people might get messed up sometimes is assuming a general atonement that applies to everyone, and with that the notion that God loves unconditionally in the atonement, and from that therefore God loves everyone unconditionally. The first error is in assuming a general atonement, rather than a particular atonement, and the implications of the penal (legal) and substitutional nature of the atonement. This section of the forum brings back some good memories. God bless you and yours brother!

I'm interested in any evidence from Scripture that there is a "general atonement", whatever that means, and a "particular atonement", whatever that means.

While Calvinists claim that in certain verses, the word "world" only means "world of the elect", there is nothing in the context of any of the verses to support the claim.

Secondly, the word "world" is used of either all of humanity or just unbelievers in every instance.

I'll give several verses that plainly state that Christ died for everyone. Please explain how He didn't die for everyone in these verses.

2 Cor 5:14,15 -
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

And, just for the record, I reject in total the doctrine of universalism, whereby everyone is saved because Christ died for everyone.