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God's love is not unconditional

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Mountainmanbob, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    RC Sproul just the other day went to be with the Lord.
     
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  2. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    Say hello for us, RC.
     
  3. Celticroots

    Celticroots Newbie

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    So He withdraws His love based on how well we behave? Like some sort of punishment? I am not talking about people living in blatant sin. But Christians who are trying to stay close to God and please Him, but still struggle with sin in some areas and feels convicted when they do sin.
     
  4. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    I did not get that from the video at what point in the video was that statement made? Would like to study that.
    M-Bob
     
  5. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Saved by the blood of the Lamb Supporter

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    I dont buy that. Jesus loved everyone while He was here in the flesh.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    The verse excludes no one.
     
  6. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    I guess you did not watch the video. The ones that have all the answers need not.
    M-Bob
     
  7. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Saved by the blood of the Lamb Supporter

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    God loves all but God is holy so He must judge and punish sin. This is what we are supposed to be teaching.
     
  8. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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  9. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Absolutely dangerous to teach what the man in the video is teaching against, yet so many on this very sight teach it without a second thought to the consequences for teaching deadly lies.

    Loved the Mr Roger's Neighborhood Crack and the "God loves the sinner but hates the sin, yet he sends the sinner to hell, not the sin". :)

    One of the best videos I've seen here, if not the best. Especially in a time when people are going nuts with this insanity, and all because they want it all, the sin and the reward for being good, but they will never get both, only the reward for sin.
     
  10. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What he means by "unconditional" is not what a number of people mean. Preachers can mean different things, by the same word.

    Yes, there is hell if someone refuses Jesus. Jesus knows about hell, and I think that part of why Jesus was willing to so suffer and die for us was because He knows how bad it is and that it was worth suffering that much in order to keep us from going there.

    And that is part of what God's real unconditional love is about. No one and nothing can keep God from caring about us so much that Jesus suffered and died like that, for us.
     
  11. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    I have never personally counted the versus but, from what I understand Jesus preached more about hell than he did regarding heaven..

    M-Bob
     
  12. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But Jesus Himself is included in all the best there is of Heaven, and Jesus talked about Himself and how God wants us to love. How God wants us to love is as it is in Heaven . . . the best of how to love. Jesus talked about this way of loving, a lot. He talked about our Father in Heaven, so talking about all the best of Heaven.

    So, even when Jesus did not actually say the word, "Heaven", He often was talking about Heaven, I would say.

    But, yes, Jesus did talk about hell, also in indirect ways. He talked about how hypocrisy is so stupidly as evil as Satan. And Satan is going to be included in how horrible hell is. And pride and lusts of Satan's evil spirit will be included in the horribleness of hell. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," our Apostle Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. This spirit of Satan and selfishness will be in hell, in the vessels of dishonor who continue to live in selfishness and conceit of looking down on others. And Jesus spoke plenty against looking down on others and not having His hope for them. Such conceit will be in hell, and Jesus spoke against this.

    So, there is plenty Jesus has said about hell, indirectly, by talking against hypocrisy and lusts and selfish ways of loving (Matthew 5:46); because the evil spirit of these will be included in hell. They will smell, in the fire.

    So, I need to have compassion for people, the way Jesus of Heaven has had Heaven's compassion with hope for me >

    "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

    I see now how people need to see their sin and the condemnation of sin. But we need to see our sin in comparison with how Heaven's love has a person becoming like Jesus, so we can appreciate how stupidly evil and wrong our sin really is . . . not only feeling shame about it and fear of wrath, but seeing how we need to become, instead, with Christ our example >

    Yes, God loves us unconditionally . . . meaning how He has not given up on us, plus how He keeps succeeding in correcting His children because He so loves us (Hebrews 12:4-11) . . . but this is our example also required of us, how we also join Jesus in having His untiring hope and compassion with readiness to forgive any and all people.

    "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

    So, we need to have our attention to how Heaven's love has us relating like Jesus. If people talk about hell, how much do they give attention to how Heaven has us loving and how we need to become so we are like Heaven's Jesus?
     
  13. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    Only because Unfortunately More people will end up in hell according to the scriptures. (Matt 7:13-14)
    In the Main Parable of Mark 4:13-20 only in the last verse did the people win and get 30,60,100 fold return but the majority of the parable MOST failed which goes along with MOST of the bible narrative.

    Also Romans 9:27 & Isaiah 10:22 talks about having a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF people but only a few (remnant) shall be saved.


    GOD love is NOT unconditional which is true because GOD said keep his commandments. If you don't keep them you lose.
    ( 1 John 5:3-4 , Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 )

     
  14. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Sure it is. But we have the freedom to reject even unconditional love. IOW, we can set a condition. He loves us- His creation -lavishly, in spite of our sin but He won't force us to return the favor. As Augustine put it, God won't violate our wills to save us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  15. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Even from Sproul's theological perspective, I think some of his wording could be misleading. As a Protestant, I assume he would say that we are justified by faith, and God's love for us doesn't change. I think he's making a distinction between those who are opposed to Christ and those who are in Christ. Jesus does use the term "sinner" to refer to the former, presumably because he sees sin as characteristic of them but not of those in the Kingdom, even though of course all do sin and fall short of God. I think Jesus' teaching is clear enough about God's unconditional love for his people. I think some of the wording, particularly near the beginning, contradicts that, and could leave the impression that when you sin God stops loving you.

    Where there's room for more serious debate is God's attitude towards those outside the Kingdom. It's possible for humans to love someone but also be upset at them because of what they're doing. It seems like the same is true of God as well. So citing passages about God's wrath doesn't necessarily say that God doesn't love everyone. Mat 5:43 seems to be pretty clear that God loves even his enemies. Rather than challenging God's love for everyone, RC might do better to say that love and judgement can coexist.

    As to the impact on evangelism, I don't think it's clear. Some people seem to have been scared into conversion. However others find traditional Christian accounts of eternal punishment impossible to believe. I think those who fall into the second category is growing.
     
  16. TheBibleIsTruth

    TheBibleIsTruth Well-Known Member

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  17. MostRadicalManEver

    MostRadicalManEver Junior Member Supporter

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    But this does exclude! those that don't believe!
    continue on for more.
    John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Belief is a 'condition'.
    The Wrath of God abides on the sons of disobedience (see Col 3:6)
     
  18. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    And now he knows a lot better!!
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Exactly! The Calvinist argument that "world" here only refers to "world of the elect" is indefensible.
     
  20. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Those who know what the Bible teaches need not view the video.
     
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