God's love is not unconditional

Mountainmanbob

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Jesus died for the elect only.

The Bible teaches over and over again that most will not go to heaven.

Jesus spoke regarding his sheep and the others He said were not his sheep.

We should just be happy and grateful that we are chosen and move on.

It's a humbling experience knowing that we were chosen. Especially when we know who we truly are and deserve nothing other than the hot place.

For the ones that think they do not deserve to go to the hot place they are probably very lost and do not understand what was done on the cross or why it was needed.

M-Bob
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jesus died for the elect only.
When the Bible uses the word "all" or "everyone" it doesn't mean "elect".

The Bible teaches over and over again that most will not go to heaven.
True. And unrelated to the first statement.

Jesus spoke regarding his sheep and the others He said were not his sheep.
In John 10, how many categories of "sheep" did Jesus note? 3 Yep.

There were:
1. My sheep v.14, 27
2. other sheep of Mine v.16
3. not of My sheep v.26
4. the sheep v.11, 12, 13, 15

What did Jesus say about who He would lay down His life for?
Glad you asked. From John 10, it was THE sheep. That means all of them.

If He only died for His own sheep, He would have said exactly that. But He differentiated between His sheep, not His sheep and THE sheep.

Please don't try to equate "His sheep" with "the sheep".

We should just be happy and grateful that we are chosen and move on.
Glad you brought this up. In EVERY instance of the Bible mentioning being elected or chosen, the context is about service, not salvation.

Election is to service, not salvation.

I Jesus Christ is The Chosen One:

Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).

1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Isa 43:10 - “You are My witnesses”, declares the Lord, “and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”

Luke 9:35 - A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

Luke 23:35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

Acts 3:20 - and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Eph 1:22 - And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Heb 3:2 - He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house.

Heb 3:2-6 compares Jesus with Moses as as faithful servant.

Heb 10:7 - Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

II The original 12 apostles were chosen/appointed for service:

Mark 3:14 - He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

III Paul was elected to service:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the gas of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

Gal 1:16 - to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

There are 7 different examples of election, and none are for salvation:

Examples of Election
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him… v.19 defines “us” as “those who believe”.
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
1 Tim 1:12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.
Apostles: John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” {Judas was chosen to betray the Lord}
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
1 Cor 1:27-28 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

None of these examples of election were for salvation. All of them are for service.

It's a humbling experience knowing that we were chosen. Especially when we know who we truly are and deserve nothing other than the hot place.
Yes, I agtee it's quite humbling to be chosen to serve God, since we deserve nothing.

For the ones that think they do not deserve to go to the hot place they are probably very lost and do not understand what was done on the cross or why it was needed.

M-Bob
True. The Pharisees, for sure.
 
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shakewell

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John MacArthur will definitely go to hell because he says that people can take the mark of the beast still be forgiven:





Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If Anyoneworships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be Tormented With Fire And Brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of Their Torment ascends Forever and Ever; and They have No Rest Day Or Night, Who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 14:9-11

I wonder if the passage could be emphasized this way:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

Maybe it's possible to receive the mark without worshipping the beast & his image, and this pronouncment only applies to those who do both? I'm not sure.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I wonder if the passage could be emphasized this way:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

Maybe it's possible to receive the mark without worshipping the beast & his image, and this pronouncment only applies to those who do both? I'm not sure.


It's either / or
 
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