God's forknowledge and predistinaiton

[BNR32FAN]

This is where we fell from - from becoming gods, God’s children. Through Christ, we are being redeemed back to God’s original plan that started in the garden.

God only ever had one plan. There was never a plan B. There’s no reason our omniscient, omnipresent Creator would have to make a plan B. There was always only one plan from the very beginning.

 

[biblelesson]

Adam did not “know” sin just like Joseph didn’t “know” Mary until after Jesus was born. It doesn’t mean he was incapable of doing it, it just means he had not experienced it yet.

God gave Joseph the nature to procreate. He did not give Adam the nature of sin. You cannot compare Adam’s sin to Joseph’s act of knowing Mary, his wife. You are using the wrong reasoning. Joseph was like every man who God told to be fruitful and multiply. However, Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God. The sin that Adam committed came from another source. Once Adam ate of the [sin] that Satan introduced him to, he was MADE corrupted.

You cannot perform something you do not have, nor are you capable of committing an act you do not have the capability of committing. To do so, it must be GIVEN. The act of sin was GIVEN to Adam. The original sin Adam committed belong to Satan.

In the reverse order, without Christ, we do not have the capacity to be righteous. It is not in us. We can try from now to dooms day, and it will never happen. So how do we obtain righteousness? We are MADE righteous in Christ Jesus.

The fall was always part of the plan because man was always destined to fail because of his free will. Because of this the plan for salvation was formulated from the very beginning.

The fall was never part of God’s plan. Redemption was part of God’s plan knowing man would fall. You are not considering your own statements - again you are using the wrong reasoning. You yourself said man had free will. So, because of man’s wrong choice, God set redemption up. Big difference.

 

[biblelesson]

This is where we fell from - from becoming gods, God’s children. Through Christ, we are being redeemed back to God’s original plan that started in the garden.

God only ever had one plan. There was never a plan B. There’s no reason our omniscient, omnipresent Creator would have to make a plan B. There was always only one plan from the very beginning.

What plan are you speaking of?

 

[biblelesson]

This is purely speculation. You can’t formulate a doctrine based on speculation. There is no evidence to support the idea that Adam was any different than us before the fall. A newborn baby doesn’t know sin either, not until he commits it.

You don’t understand scripture as it relates to the creation of man. Why was there a tree of Life? Why would Jesus say is it not written in your law, I have said ye are gods, John 10:34 KJ, and David said, ye are gods, but will die like men, and fall like one of the princes, Psalms 82:7 KJV? Why would the fall of man be compared to one of the princes? And who are the princes? The princes are the fallen angels.

Please take a moment and digest the scriptures.

Man was created by God and was not suppose to die because man was created to live forever - and the Tree of Life would have made that possible. The Bible already tells you that if Adam had eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. So using reasoning, the question should be why did God put man out of the garden, and block the way of the Tree of Life? Based on Genesis 3:24 KJV, It’s obvious that God was stopping man from living forever.

But because of Adam’s sin, it’s obvious man was prevented from living forever - could not be made spiritual through eating of the Tree of Life - but would die like men, that is, due to sin, man had to be LEFT in “fleshly” bodies that could die. But if the sin had not happened, man’s fleshly body would have changed to spiritual bodies that could not die - become gods, children of God through the Tree of Life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He did not give Adam the nature of sin.

This is purely speculation. There’s no biblical evidence to support it. All this is, is your doctrine says so, so that’s what your going to believe because some 16th century theologians said this is what the Bible says but it DOESN’T ACTUALLY SAY ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT. That’s why no one has been able to produce a single verse to support this doctrine despite my asking for it numerous times.

However, Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God.

Then why did God give a consequence for sin when He gave the commandment if Adam was incapable of breaking that commandment? “Hey Adam, I command you to not eat from the tree of knowledge and even tho I made you INCAPABLE OF SIN if you do eat from it you will surely die. How does that not sound ridiculous?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You cannot perform something you do not have, nor are you capable of committing an act you do not have the capability of committing. To do so, it must be GIVEN. The act of sin was GIVEN to Adam. The original sin Adam committed belong to Satan.

None of this is coming from the scriptures. This is all coming from your imagination which is why nobody can produce a single verse that supports this doctrine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The fall was never part of God’s plan. Redemption was part of God’s plan knowing man would fall. You are not considering your own statements - again you are using the wrong reasoning. You yourself said man had free will. So, because of man’s wrong choice, God set redemption up. Big difference.

God is both omniscient and omnipresent. Do you know what that means? It means He is all knowing and He exists in all time simultaneously. This means God knows everything and there was never a time when He didn’t know everything. Why would He make a plan that He knew would fail? Everything that happened, happened according to His plan. Why did He put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with if it served no purpose? The plan was redemption from the beginning otherwise there would’ve been no reason to put the tree of knowledge in the garden. God put the tree in the garden and gave the commandment not to eat it knowing full well that Adam was going to disobey because He had already foreseen everything. There was never any moment where God didn’t know what was going to happen. So why would He make a plan that He knew would fail to begin with? You’re so focused on protecting your doctrine that you’re not fully contemplating what your saying.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What plan are you speaking of?

God’s plan for the salvation on man. That’s always been His plan.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You don’t understand scripture as it relates to the creation of man. Why was there a tree of Life? Why would Jesus say is it not written in your law, I have said ye are gods, John 10:34 KJ, and David said, ye are gods, but will die like men, and fall like one of the princes, Psalms 82:7 KJV? Why would the fall of man be compared to one of the princes? And who are the princes? The princes are the fallen angels.

Please take a moment and digest the scriptures.

Man was created by God and was not suppose to die because man was created to live forever - and the Tree of Life would have made that possible. The Bible already tells you that if Adam had eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. So using reasoning, the question should be why did God put man out of the garden, and block the way of the Tree of Life? Based on Genesis 3:24 KJV, It’s obvious that God was stopping man from living forever.

But because of Adam’s sin, it’s obvious man was prevented from living forever - could not be made spiritual through eating of the Tree of Life - but would die like men, that is, due to sin, man had to be LEFT in “fleshly” bodies that could die. But if the sin had not happened, man’s fleshly body would have changed to spiritual bodies that could not die - become gods, children of God through the Tree of Life.

Wow you’ve formulated this entire theology based on an ambiguous passage that could mean anything. And you still didn’t answer the question why did God put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with? Or what about this question, if it was God’s plan for Adam to live in the garden of Eden forever why did He give Adam the consequences for eating from the tree of life when He commanded Adam not to eat from it? Your acting as of God didn’t know what Adam was going to do. God gave Adam the consequence before the fall because He already knew that Adam was going to disobey. Honestly I can’t believe I’m having this conversation with a Calvinists who teaches that God has predestined everything. Correct me if I’m wrong here but don’t you teach that God has predestined His plan?

 

[biblelesson]

Or what about this question, if it was God’s plan for Adam to live in the garden of Eden forever why did He give Adam the consequences for eating from the tree of life when He commanded Adam not to eat from it?

Why does your boss tell you if you don’t do your job, you will be fired? Does that mean your boss orchestrated your actions, and set in motion events to firing you? No!

But bosses knowing that employees will mess up, they set up plans to help employees improve their performance through training, and through yearly employee appraisals. These bosses foresee problems, and set up a plan to mitigate the problem.

But if I have misunderstood, please explain what John 10:34 KJV and Psalms 82:6-7 KJV mean?


We must read with discernment!

 

[biblelesson]

Then why did God give a consequence for sin when He gave the commandment if Adam was incapable of breaking that commandment? “Hey Adam, I command you to not eat from the tree of knowledge and even tho I made you INCAPABLE OF SIN if you do eat from it you will surely die. How does that not sound ridiculous?

Being given a choice does not amount to sin. God warned Adam to not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or they would die. That does not mean sin was in Adam at that time. Only if he ate from that Tree would they encounter sin.

Let’s think - there was someone else in the Garden - Satan who had already been kicked out of heaven. Satan can only bring sin. Satan is the originator of sin. Before tricking Eve, Adam could not have been capable of sin - sin would have had to be introduced to a vessel with no sin.

For example, you have a clean vessel? How does the stain of filth corrupt a clean vessel? You can’t say the vessel is capable of corruption because the filth have to come from somewhere.

Just like the human body when it comes to sickness and diseases. The human body becomes sick from outside forces - a host of bacteria, and a host of viruses.

This is why Jesus could cast out sickness and leave the vessel clean. And cast out evil spirits and leave the vessel clean.

 

[biblelesson]

None of this is coming from the scriptures. This is all coming from your imagination which is why nobody can produce a single verse that supports this doctrine.

I have produced the verses, you didn’t read them?

 

[biblelesson]

Why did He put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with if it served no purpose?

You are not understanding scripture!

Do you know who and what the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil is?

Do you know who the Tree of Life is?

 

[Berserk]

The so-called Fall is better understood as a story of the birth of conscience. Why?
God was pleased by Adam and Eve's disobedience for 2 reasons:
(1) Their disobedience made them "godlike" (3:22) and thus helped them fulfill their status as creatures in God's
"image and likeness (1:27-28)."
(2) Only when they become godlike in this sense do they "come to know good from evil (3:22)."
Both outcomes are morally preferable to their primordial innocence. So disobedience was always part of the divine plan to make it clear that we must come to God for mercy on the basis of grace:

"God HAS LOCKED us all in disobedience so that He might have mercy on all of us (Romans 11:32).

 

[Billy Evmur]

Yeah according to that logic Jesus was also in there since He is also a descendant of Adam.

not so, He is the seed of the woman ... conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of a virgin.

 

[biblelesson]

The so-called Fall is better understood as a story of the birth of conscience. Why?
God was pleased by Adam and Eve's disobedience for 2 reasons:
(1) Their disobedience made them "godlike" (3:22) and thus helped them fulfill their status as creatures in God's
"image and likeness (1:27-28)."
(2) Only when they become godlike in this sense do they "come to know good from evil (3:22)."
Both outcomes are morally preferable to their primordial innocence. So disobedience was always part of the divine plan to make it clear that we must come to God for mercy on the basis of grace:

"God HAS LOCKED us all in disobedience so that He might have mercy on all of us (Romans 11:32).

You listed verses without the books of the Bible. What scriptures are you referring to?

 

[Berserk]

You listed verses without the books of the Bible. What scriptures are you referring to?

Genesis. That's where the story of Adam and Eve is.

 

[biblelesson]

God gave Adam the consequence before the fall because He already knew that Adam was going to disobey. Honestly I can’t believe I’m having this conversation with a Calvinists who teaches that God has predestined everything. Correct me if I’m wrong here but don’t you teach that God has predestined His plan?

I’m not a Calvinist. And God’s plan was to redeem man. It was not God’s plan for man to sin. But because God is omnipotent, He knew man was going to sin, therefore He pre-ordained salvation through grace in Christ Jesus to redeem man from their sin state. And yes based on His foreknowledge, and through election, He predestinated those who would believe in Christ.

God did not predestine Adam to sin. God predestined salvation because He knew Adam would sin.

Say you have a son who you know is going to mess up his inheritance when he becomes older. So what do you do to protect him? You can set up a trust with restrictions. You can set up monthly payments. There are many options you can set up years before he is old enough to draw on the funds to keep him safe. So, this is what God did. From the foundations of the world, before He created Adam, He knew Adam was going to fall, which would be the fall of the entire race, to where all of mankind would have perished. So what could God do to save His creation? God put in motion a plane to save man, to redeem man from that fall He already knew would happen. And based on His fore-knowledge that some would not believe, He predestined and called those who would believe on Jesus. Unfortunately some will be saved and some will not.

Now, if some will not be saved, do you believe God caused Adam to sin so that some would burn and some would be saved?

This would be a cruel God. God did not do this!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why does your boss tell you if you don’t do your job, you will be fired? Does that mean your boss orchestrated your actions, and set in motion events to firing you? No!

But bosses knowing that employees will mess up, they set up plans to help employees improve their performance through training, and through yearly employee appraisals. These bosses foresee problems, and set up a plan to mitigate the problem.

But if I have misunderstood, please explain what John 10:34 KJV and Psalms 82:6-7 KJV mean?


We must read with discernment!

Now you’re saying the exact opposite of what you said just earlier today. Like 4 posts earlier you were saying that ADAM WAS INCAPABLE OF SIN. Now all the sudden you’ve thrown that argument out the window because I squashed that it by pointing out the fact that God gave consequences for disobeying His commandment not to eat from the tree of knowledge. You don’t give someone consequences for doing something THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO. That’s just common sense. And now you’re contradicting yourself by saying that “bosses know that their employees will mess up” meaning that God knew that Adam would sin. That’s completely the opposite of what you said earlier when you said that was incapable of sin.

Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God. The sin that Adam committed came from another source. Once Adam ate of the [sin] that Satan introduced him to, he was MADE corrupted.

You cannot perform something you do not have, nor are you capable of committing an act you do not have the capability of committing. To do so, it must be GIVEN. The act of sin was GIVEN to Adam. The original sin Adam committed belong to Satan.

As for Psalms 82:6-7 I don’t know what it means. It’s too ambiguous to make any sort of interpretation. You can’t just throw out any interpretation that suits you without evidence to support it. That statement could mean a multitude of different things because it’s not explained. You take that passage and claim that Adam was a God but David makes no reference to Adam nor was Jesus when He said that to unbelieving Jews. On top of that Jesus said

“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),”
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭35‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The word “he” is referring to David calling these people gods to whom the word of God came to. How does that equate to “them” being Adam? David wasn’t referring to Adam & Eve he was referring to mankind in general. Hence the term “all of you”.

“I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭82‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Who is “all of you” before the fall? Adam & Eve? No it’s a reference to all mankind because you don’t use the term “all of you” in reference to two people.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Being given a choice does not amount to sin. God warned Adam to not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or they would die. That does not mean sin was in Adam at that time. Only if he ate from that Tree would they encounter sin.

Let’s think - there was someone else in the Garden - Satan who had already been kicked out of heaven. Satan can only bring sin. Satan is the originator of sin. Before tricking Eve, Adam could not have been capable of sin - sin would have had to be introduced to a vessel with no sin.

For example, you have a clean vessel? How does the stain of filth corrupt a clean vessel? You can’t say the vessel is capable of corruption because the filth have to come from somewhere.

Just like the human body when it comes to sickness and diseases. The human body becomes sick from outside forces - a host of bacteria, and a host of viruses.

This is why Jesus could cast out sickness and leave the vessel clean. And cast out evil spirits and leave the vessel clean.

You don’t seem to understand that it makes no sense for God to give consequences for doing that that Adam is incapable of doing. Would it make sense for me to tell my son don’t jump over the house otherwise I’m going to give you a spanking? No because it’s impossible for him to do that. Just like it would be ridiculous for me to give my son consequences for doing something that is impossible for him to do it would be equally ridiculous for God to give Adam consequences for failing to obey His commandment if Adam is incapable of disobeying.