God's Decree

[BBAS 64]

More like, created us with free will, that we ourselves choose in things. In many places in the Bible God says to choose, and yes, God commands that all should repent, Acts 17:30, and so they would choose to do so or not, as not all are repenting.

Good day, Fred

Then freewill means the ability (A volitional creature) to choose?

You are not saying the will of man is not effected things he can not control.... ?

In Him,

Bill

 

[zoidar]

What people actually have an issue is about God omniscience. They mistakenly take God's omniscience as something uncontrollable. They take that God cannot resist but being forced to know everything. That's not truth. God has all the ability to choose not to know something His will doesn't want to know. His omniscience is subject to His omnipotence, it's not something out of God's control.

I'm not a Reformed Christian, but I do think God knows everything. It's like a characteristic of being God, not something God can change. Even if God could choose to not know everything, why would He?

 

[Hammster]

What people actually have an issue is about God omniscience. They mistakenly take God's omniscience as something uncontrollable. They take that God cannot resist but being forced to know everything. That's not truth. God has all the ability to choose not to know something His will doesn't want to know. His omniscience is subject to His omnipotence, it's not something out of God's control.

How does He know that He doesn’t know something?

 

[food4thought]

The more we try to explain it, the more problems we create. Every answer presents it's own problems. Why do we keep smashing our brains against these things? The mind of God is far beyond human understanding, and I'm comfortable admitting that. The problem is in God's hands, and that is enough for me.

 

[Hammster]

The more we try to explain it, the more problems we create. Every answer presents its own problems. Why do we keep smashing our brains against these things? The mind of God is far beyond human understanding, and I'm comfortable admitting that. The problem is in God's hands, and that is enough for me.

And some others want to know more.

 

[FredVB]

I see. He just starts is off and hopes for the best. He really got lucky that the cross happened.

God starts off and hopes for the best? What does that have to do with what I said? Some people really want to set up things to argue against that were never said. Can you not see the difference? God knowing everything is not God controlling everything, if God gives some creatures agency to choose some things. Of course, we cannot choose in everything. But passages such as Acts 17:30 agree with that. We are ones who could respond to repent and not all among us do; though, God is not willing that any would perish but that all would come to repentance. Where is that in your world view? I know some think repentance is not needed, and some really think we don't need to do anything from choices. If they live like that, they would perish. No, I don't think perishing that is mentioned in the Bible means being annihilated.

What people actually have an issue is about God omniscience. They mistakenly take God's omniscience as something uncontrollable. They take that God cannot resist but being forced to know everything. That's not truth. God has all the ability to choose not to know something His will doesn't want to know. His omniscience is subject to His omnipotence, it's not something out of God's control.

That is not the issue with God's omniscience. It is not conflicting with things in creation. That God really knows everything is not God causing what we seem to choose, we really do choose and God knows what we choose while we are really responsible with choosing and what we have from that. Without that there is no justice with judgment. So not all repent, as was mentioned, while God gave commandment for all to repent. God does not need to choose to not know some things so as to give us choice. But he knows of those things because we choose, without God causing those choices. Knowledge itself does not cause things, while what God created was with a fantastically great amount of knowledge, and wisdom, for perfect creation, while in God's goodness giving creatures as us ability to really choose. Problems come from us misusing the ability to choose that we are given.

Good day, Fred

Then freewill means the ability (A volitional creature) to choose?

You are not saying the will of man is not effected things he can not control.... ?

In Him,

Bill

Of course, there are things we cannot choose, most of the universe is not subject to anything we choose. Some things are not in our control or what we can fix even from choices we have already made. And our minds can be affected, like those of any, and we may choose in a different way than we would have in other circumstances. And it is even so with God possibly changing the circumstances that affect us to choose differently. But it is still with us really choosing, with ability to still choose differently. But we cannot choose all things when one choice contradicts choosing another way. We weigh things a very little or a whole lot, for those, and I certainly agree some things are entirely outside of out ability in choosing. I can't choose in most of what is happening in the world. But I can choose how I respond to things, including even in communication with you, likewise we should repent, with our own choice, while it will be with response to what God does.

 

[Hammster]

God starts off and hopes for the best? What does that have to do with what I said? Some people really want to set up things to argue against that were never said. Can you not see the difference? God knowing everything is not God controlling everything, if God gives some creatures agency to choose some things. Of course, we cannot choose in everything. But passages such as Acts 17:30 agree with that. We are ones who could respond to repent and not all among us do; though, God is not willing that any would perish but that all would come to repentance. Where is that in your world view? I know some think repentance is not needed, and some really think we don't need to do anything from choices. If they live like that, they would perish. No, I don't think perishing that is mentioned in the Bible means being annihilated.

Okay, let me ask you this. What, if any, control does God have over our wills?

 

[BBAS 64]

God starts off and hopes for the best? What does that have to do with what I said? Some people really want to set up things to argue against that were never said. Can you not see the difference? God knowing everything is not God controlling everything, if God gives some creatures agency to choose some things. Of course, we cannot choose in everything. But passages such as Acts 17:30 agree with that. We are ones who could respond to repent and not all among us do; though, God is not willing that any would perish but that all would come to repentance. Where is that in your world view? I know some think repentance is not needed, and some really think we don't need to do anything from choices. If they live like that, they would perish. No, I don't think perishing that is mentioned in the Bible means being annihilated.



That is not the issue with God's omniscience. It is not conflicting with things in creation. That God really knows everything is not God causing what we seem to choose, we really do choose and God knows what we choose while we are really responsible with choosing and what we have from that. Without that there is no justice with judgment. So not all repent, as was mentioned, while God gave commandment for all to repent. God does not need to choose to not know some things so as to give us choice. But he knows of those things because we choose, without God causing those choices. Knowledge itself does not cause things, while what God created was with a fantastically great amount of knowledge, and wisdom, for perfect creation, while in God's goodness giving creatures as us ability to really choose. Problems come from us misusing the ability to choose that we are given.



Of course, there are things we cannot choose, most of the universe is not subject to anything we choose. Some things are not in our control or what we can fix even from choices we have already made. And our minds can be affected, like those of any, and we may choose in a different way than we would have in other circumstances. And it is even so with God possibly changing the circumstances that affect us to choose differently. But it is still with us really choosing, with ability to still choose differently. But we cannot choose all things when one choice contradicts choosing another way. We weigh things a very little or a whole lot, for those, and I certainly agree some things are entirely outside of out ability in choosing. I can't choose in most of what is happening in the world. But I can choose how I respond to things, including even in communication with you, likewise we should repent, with our own choice, while it will be with response to what God does.

Good Day Fred

I agree with all that you said to my question.... We do choose and we do so freely and things that we do not control do effect the choices we make.

Our wills are informed and dependent upon our past experiences (mind) and more so our desires ( heart).

In Him,

Bill

 

[FredVB]

Okay, let me ask you this. What, if any, control does God have over our wills?

God being all-powerful as I understand, God could have total influence over us, if God chose that. But God values our choice, even so much that some, or many, would perish, for choosing to not have anything to do with God in their lives and not repenting of things. So there are things for us to choose, and while God requires repentance among all there are really those who will not, with their own choice.

Good Day Fred

I agree with all that you said to my question.... We do choose and we do so freely and things that we do not control do effect the choices we make.

Our wills are informed and dependent upon our past experiences (mind) and more so our desires ( heart).

In Him,

Bill

There are circumstances much of the time that will influence how we choose, if we will. Just being set in our ways is such an effect on us. God will leave us to that if we have had opportunity to grow in something already, I believe, but if we are responsive to God, God will show us more for our further growth, which God wants for us. Salvation of God's plan was really for us to have with turning from sin and growing with spiritual fruit more and more.

 

[Hammster]

God being all-powerful as I understand, God could have total influence over us, if God chose that. But God values our choice, even so much that some, or many, would perish, for choosing to not have anything to do with God in their lives and not repenting of things. So there are things for us to choose, and while God requires repentance among all there are really those who will not, with their own choice.

One, God placing value on our choices is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard.

Two, if God chooses to not interfere, how was Christ crucified according to God’s plan?

 

[FredVB]

One, God placing value on our choices is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard.

Two, if God chooses to not interfere, how was Christ crucified according to God’s plan?

No, it is not one of the dumbest things, of what you have heard, or in any way otherwise. It would not be more sensible for a Creator to make robots that were determined to do the things they will and give them commandments, that just few of them are going to do, that way, and then have even judgment coming. That is foolishness to me.

God is all knowing, that is not in dispute among us. God knows all even while choice in some things are left to us, and some reject what ways there are of God in which we should live and act. So God knows knew the way for atonement to be accomplished with Christ coming, and God had that come with the knowledge God has.

 

[Neogaia777]

Included in God's being All-Knowing is complete knowledge of how you, and all of us, will already choose with all of our choices, otherwise, you have to say that there are some things He does not fully know, or cannot fully predict all of the way and all of the time and every single time fully.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Included in God's being All-Knowing is complete knowledge of how you, and all of us, will already choose with all of our choices, otherwise, you have to say that there are some things He does not fully know, or cannot fully predict all of the way and all of the time and every single time fully.

God Bless.

And then there are other problems as well when you carefully consider and deeply think about there being a God who does know all of this, and has always known all of this from the very beginning fully, etc.

There is never any mystery for such a One ever at all ever, and there is never any need to ever get emotional or change or ever need to try and interfere or ever alter anything ever at all ever along the way either, because the only way it can ever go, either from the beginning or to the ending or anything in-between, is only how you have already made or directed it or already purposed it to always go from the very beginning, and down to it's ending and everything in-between, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc. He can never be surprised or shocked, because that is just not possible for Him, because He already knows, and did always know, "all" already, etc. He made carefully all the pieces of the mechanical clock already, and knows all about it from the time He put all those pieces together and wound the clock up and set it in motion, etc. He also knows when the clock will run out of the energy He put into it to wind it up as well, etc. There is nothing He doesn't know about it, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Hammster]

No, it is not one of the dumbest things, of what you have heard, or in any way otherwise. It would not be more sensible for a Creator to make robots that were determined to do the things they will and give them commandments, that just few of them are going to do, that way, and then have even judgment coming. That is foolishness to me.

God is all knowing, that is not in dispute among us. God knows all even while choice in some things are left to us, and some reject what ways there are of God in which we should live and act. So God knows knew the way for atonement to be accomplished with Christ coming, and God had that come with the knowledge God has.

Nope, still dumb. In your view, God had to see how things would pan out. He had no control. He even got lucky with Mary, and how Jesus’ life would fulfill prophecy. In fact, the entire Bible is fortuitous since God couldn’t even direct that it would be actually written and preserved.

We may as well throw out the verses where God actually directed things to happen, or informed us that He did. At least disregard them as times when God didn’t value man and made them do things. He must have slipped.

 

[Neogaia777]

There would be no need for a truly all-knowing God to step in the middle and try to direct anything to happen (or not happen) either, etc.

Because He already did, etc.

And there is not any other way it can go, or else happen, or not happen, etc.

Again, you have to put enough thought into it, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Hammster]

There would be no need for a truly all-knowing God to step in the middle and try to direct anything to happen (or not happen) either, etc.

Because He already did, etc.

And there is not any other way it can go, or else happen, or not happen, etc.

Again, you have to put enough thought into it, etc.

God Bless.

I’m confused. Are you saying that He isn’t all-knowing? That’s how it’s coming across.

 

[Neogaia777]

I’m confused. Are you saying that He isn’t all-knowing? That’s how it’s coming across.

Are you talking about God the Spirit?

Because that sounds like who you may be referring to to me?

I'm saying God is a Trinity.

God Bless.

 

[Hammster]

Are you talking about God the Spirit?

Because that sounds like who you may be referring to to me?

I'm saying God is a Trinity.

God Bless.

Same here. I’m asking if you believe He’s all knowing. Your wording isn’t clear.

 

[Neogaia777]

Same here. I’m asking if you believe He’s all knowing. Your wording isn’t clear.

What do you think?

Do you believe all three members of the Trinity were always equal or identical in every single way?

God Bless.

 

[Hammster]

What do you think?

Do you believe all three members of the Trinity were always equal or identical in every single way?

God Bless.

I’m asking if you believe He’s all knowing. Your wording isn’t clear.