God's Commandments include the TEN Commandments in the NT

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
. Satan STILL PRESENTS HIMSELF AS. Doesn't say he is. .

It says HE presents himself as an angel of light just as his followers present themselves as apostles and Bible teachers.

But he is a fallen angel and his followers are wicked humans not save saints - yet humans still.

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2016

Heb 8 (Jer 31:31-33)

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”

====================================

Excellent point - Jeremiah and the Apostle Paul!!

ToBeLoved said:
The New Covenant is for all.

Most Jewish people reject the New Covenant and Jesus.
The New Covenant is BY FAITH, not heritage.

Certainly to reject the New Covenant is to reject Jesus.

Is this you trying to argue 'with the text' of Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31? or is this you agreeing that the people of God - all of the saints (Jews and gentiles) are being identified by God as the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;?

ToBeLoved said:
Does the Jewish religion recognize Jesus?

You are framing your response as an argument "against the text" --- might want to rethink that one.

"He is not a Jew who is one outwardly and circumcision is not of the flesh - but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY" Romans 2.

ToBeLoved said:
Hebrews was written to the Jews.

Every Bible teacher on the planet knows enough to accept the New Covenant as the Gospel for Christians. Are you seriously opposing the New Covenant???

Now where is the reference to Gentiles being Israel

Romans 9:
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 2
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Bob S · Jun 25, 2016

In reference to the OP, there are no 10 commandments after the Cross. The new covenant isn't about 10 commandments. it is strictly about love. The 10 commandments were about duty and were the guide for Israel. The guide for Christians IS the Holy Spirit and you all can find proof of this in 2Cor3:7-11. Any place you see the word commands or commandments after the Cross it is referring to:
John 15:10
"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love."

Simple isn't it?

Still not convinced? Try this one: This is how we know that we belong to the truth.......21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1JN3:

EastCoastRemnant · Jun 25, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
He omitted the Sabbath where he DID PURPOSELY list 9 of the 10 COMMANDMENTS, and never commands the Sabbath of anyone anywhere in the New Testament so logic pretty much blows any Sabbath commandment out of Jesus in the New Testament one must purposely bind oneself to the Old Testament Mosaic Law to INCLUDE the Sabbath commandment and binding yourself not only make you responsible to keep the 10 but hundreds of other commandments listed thereabouts.

By your logic then, if I keep the 8 that Jesus reiterates then I'm good but if I keep 10 then I have to keep the rest of the Mosaic laws as well.... why don't you, that keeps 8/10, not have to keep the Mosaic law? Why is it only reserved for Sabbath keepers?

EastCoastRemnant · Jun 25, 2016

Bob S said:
In reference to the OP, there are no 10 commandments after the Cross. The new covenant isn't about 10 commandments. it is strictly about love. The 10 commandments were about duty and were the guide for Israel. The guide for Christians IS the Holy Spirit and you all can find proof of this in 2Cor3:7-11. Any place you see the word commands or commandments after the Cross it is referring to:
John 15:10
"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love."

Simple isn't it?

Still not convinced? Try this one: This is how we know that we belong to the truth.......21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1JN3:

The fact you can't see God's Love in the 10 Commandments speaks loudly of your spiritual discernment brother....

Because I love God, I will have no other god above Him

Because I love God, I will not make a false image to bow down to

Because I love God, I will not call myself a Christian and not act as Christ did

Because I love God, I will honour Him and rest on the day that He Sanctified for such a purpose, to recognize that He is the Creator

Because I love God and my mom and dad, I will honour them

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take their life that I did not give

Because I love God and my wife, I will not defile the marriage bed

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take what is not given me

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not speak falsely of him/her

Because I love God, I will not want what is not given me

... consider the following verse while realizing the word duty was supplied

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

This verse is not speaking of duty, it is speaking of the essence of what God created us for.

Bob S · Jun 25, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
The fact you can't see God's Love in the 10 Commandments speaks loudly of your spiritual discernment brother....

Because I love God, I will have no other god above Him

Because I love God, I will not make a false image to bow down to

Because I love God, I will not call myself a Christian and not act as Christ did

Because I love God, I will honour Him and rest on the day that He Sanctified for such a purpose, to recognize that He is the Creator

Because I love God and my mom and dad, I will honour them

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take their life that I did not give

Because I love God and my wife, I will not defile the marriage bed

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take what is not given me

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not speak falsely of him/her

Because I love God, I will not want what is not given me

... consider the following verse while realizing the word duty was supplied

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

This verse is not speaking of duty, it is speaking of the essence of what God created us for.

Because I love Jesus I will keep His law of love and nowhere does it indicate that the law of love includes old covenant rituals. Jesus kept those rituals because He was under the old covenant. Christians are not under the old covenant. Only the Israelites were under the old covenant. Jesus asks us to keep His commandments like He kept the old covenant commandments. There is absolutely no way you can dispute Jesus own words. If he would have wanted us to observe the old covenant commands he would not have given us the new command. That is a 101 fact. Any deviation to that is nothing but a blatant lie.

EastCoastRemnant · Jun 25, 2016

Bob S said:
Jesus kept those rituals because He was under the old covenant. Christians are not under the old covenant. Only the Israelites were under the old covenant. Jesus asks us to keep His commandments like He kept the old covenant commandments.

So Jesus gave us the 10 Commandments at Sinai but then realized His mistake and even though He kept them Himself (because He had to?) He then changed them(even though He couldn't have done that while alive to show us)... does that seem like confusion or cohesion? Why was Jesus beholden to something that could be changed by Him? Does that even make sense Bob?

Do you proof read what you post Bob or are you a fly by the seat of your own emotions kinds guy?

Here's the cohesive... Jesus gave the eternal, moral character of God in His 10 Commandments and because the people did not understand the true meaning of them, Christ came to clarify them with the Commandments 2.0... not a disjointed change from the original (of which Jesus never spoke) but a beautiful clarification for both Jew and Gentile as to what they were originally intended for.

ToBeLoved · Jun 25, 2016

BobRyan said:
It says HE presents himself as an angel of light just as his followers present themselves as apostles and Bible teachers.

But he is a fallen angel and his followers are wicked humans not save saints - yet humans still.

If I remember correctly, your argument was that Satan and the other demons are still angels, but fallen angels.

I'm not sure they still are. The Bible said they left their first estate.

Also the verse we are discussing that says "Satan still presents himself as an angel of light'. If he was still an angel why would it say 'still presents himself' to me that indicates that he is no longer and angel and lost that estate.

I'm not going to argue this point because I don't feel it is important enough to do so.

We can agree that we disagree.

ToBeLoved · Jun 25, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So Jesus gave us the 10 Commandments at Sinai but then realized His mistake and even though He kept them Himself (because He had to?) He then changed them(even though He couldn't have done that while alive to show us)... does that seem like confusion or cohesion? Why was Jesus beholden to something that could be changed by Him? Does that even make sense Bob?

Do you proof read what you post Bob or are you a fly by the seat of your own emotions kinds guy?

Here's the cohesive... Jesus gave the eternal, moral character of God in His 10 Commandments and because the people did not understand the true meaning of them, Christ came to clarify them with the Commandments 2.0... not a disjointed change from the original (of which Jesus never spoke) but a beautiful clarification for both Jew and Gentile as to what they were originally intended for.

Let's not forget that Jesus death brought in the New Covenant. So the Old Covenant was no longer an option.

Jesus did not make a mistake, nor change His mind. That is why Jesus (the Messiah) is so important. PERMANENT atonement for sin. Before, under the Old Covenant there was always only temporary atonement. It had to be done over and over.

So with forgiveness of all sin, why then would not the commandments change? The idea of the Old Covenant is that the 10 Commandments (& others) were for Israel to learn how to live righteously in front of God. The Old Covenant made it clear what was a sin and unacceptable to a holy, righteous, just God. It had shown them God's righteousness also.

This doesn't make sense to you?

This is a VERY important thing to understand. How the two covenants are different and why the New Covenant is for all people. Ask questions if you don't understand because this is very important.

Bob S · Jun 26, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So Jesus gave us the 10 Commandments at Sinai but then realized His mistake and even though He kept them Himself (because He had to?) He then changed them(even though He couldn't have done that while alive to show us)... does that seem like confusion or cohesion? Why was Jesus beholden to something that could be changed by Him? Does that even make sense Bob?

He didn't give US the 10, He gave Israel the 10. How could you possibly deny that? If you are correct and you are not then why would Jeremiah even mention a new and one not like the one made with Israel.

Do you proof read what you post Bob or are you a fly by the seat of your own emotions kinds guy?

Do you deny that Jesus was under the old covenant and Christians are under the new one? If, as you keep trying to convince us that the new one is just like the old one, then why are you not thumping the feast days ad doing sacrificial services plus many more of the 613 laws of the old covenant?

Here's the cohesive... Jesus gave the eternal, moral character of God in His 10 Commandments

That is a bunch of pishposh. Parroting your peers does not make it so. The 10 commandments do not even have a commandment not to hate nor one to love nor one to give and on and on.

and because the people did not understand the true meaning of them

I see you are letting your fingers be guided by the seat of pants. Jesus gave the Israel commands that they could not understand? You have to be kidding. You finally writer something instead of insults and it nothing more than blabber.

, Christ came to clarify them with the Commandments 2.0... not a disjointed change from the original (of which Jesus never spoke) but a beautiful clarification for both Jew and Gentile as to what they were originally intended for.

More blabber.

ToBeLoved · Jun 26, 2016

BobRyan said:
Every Bible teacher on the planet knows enough to accept the New Covenant as the Gospel for Christians. Are you seriously opposing the New Covenant???

Now that is silly. What I said is that the Book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. That is true.

I don't know why you are throwing that I am opposing the New Covenant because I said that this Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews.

What are you talking about? I'm loosing your train of thought here.

bugkiller · Jun 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
By your logic then, if I keep the 8 that Jesus reiterates then I'm good but if I keep 10 then I have to keep the rest of the Mosaic laws as well.... why don't you, that keeps 8/10, not have to keep the Mosaic law? Why is it only reserved for Sabbath keepers?

Obedience by incidence isn't obedience to anything.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Jun 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So Jesus gave us the 10 Commandments at Sinai but then realized His mistake and even though He kept them Himself (because He had to?) He then changed them(even though He couldn't have done that while alive to show us)... does that seem like confusion or cohesion? Why was Jesus beholden to something that could be changed by Him? Does that even make sense Bob?

Do you proof read what you post Bob or are you a fly by the seat of your own emotions kinds guy?

Here's the cohesive... Jesus gave the eternal, moral character of God in His 10 Commandments and because the people did not understand the true meaning of them, Christ came to clarify them with the Commandments 2.0... not a disjointed change from the original (of which Jesus never spoke) but a beautiful clarification for both Jew and Gentile as to what they were originally intended for.

Jesus gave nothing at Sinai.

bugkiller

ToBeLoved · Jun 28, 2016

Bob S said:
Because I love Jesus I will keep His law of love and nowhere does it indicate that the law of love includes old covenant rituals. Jesus kept those rituals because He was under the old covenant. Christians are not under the old covenant. Only the Israelites were under the old covenant. Jesus asks us to keep His commandments like He kept the old covenant commandments. There is absolutely no way you can dispute Jesus own words. If he would have wanted us to observe the old covenant commands he would not have given us the new command. That is a 101 fact. Any deviation to that is nothing but a blatant lie.

The Messiah HAD to keep the law perfectly. Maybe some Christians do not see that.

ToBeLoved · Jun 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So Jesus gave us the 10 Commandments at Sinai but then realized His mistake and even though He kept them Himself (because He had to?) He then changed them(even though He couldn't have done that while alive to show us)... does that seem like confusion or cohesion? Why was Jesus beholden to something that could be changed by Him? Does that even make sense Bob?

Do you proof read what you post Bob or are you a fly by the seat of your own emotions kinds guy?

Here's the cohesive... Jesus gave the eternal, moral character of God in His 10 Commandments and because the people did not understand the true meaning of them, Christ came to clarify them with the Commandments 2.0... not a disjointed change from the original (of which Jesus never spoke) but a beautiful clarification for both Jew and Gentile as to what they were originally intended for.

It really makes a lot of sense.

The Law, given by God for all HUMANS to keep was obeyed by the ONLY PERFECT human. Jesus had to conquer sin, which is breaking the law, right?

How could Jesus have been perfect if He did not keep the law? He was Hebrew you know.

This explains why Christ was authorized (Him being God and all) to update the law.

Hebrews 7:11-12
A Superior Priesthood
11 Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still a need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well.

ToBeLoved · Jun 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
The fact you can't see God's Love in the 10 Commandments speaks loudly of your spiritual discernment brother....

Because I love God, I will have no other god above Him

Because I love God, I will not make a false image to bow down to

Because I love God, I will not call myself a Christian and not act as Christ did

Because I love God, I will honour Him and rest on the day that He Sanctified for such a purpose, to recognize that He is the Creator

Because I love God and my mom and dad, I will honour them

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take their life that I did not give

Because I love God and my wife, I will not defile the marriage bed

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not take what is not given me

Because I love God and my fellow man, I will not speak falsely of him/her

Because I love God, I will not want what is not given me

... consider the following verse while realizing the word duty was supplied

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

This verse is not speaking of duty, it is speaking of the essence of what God created us for.

This is your answer? That doesn't explain. I need a Biblical explanation, not your own words.

ToBeLoved · Jun 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
By your logic then, if I keep the 8 that Jesus reiterates then I'm good but if I keep 10 then I have to keep the rest of the Mosaic laws as well.... why don't you, that keeps 8/10, not have to keep the Mosaic law? Why is it only reserved for Sabbath keepers?

You keep your salvation through the law, because those who are trying to obtain their salvation that way will be held to the law's standards, not grace.

Galatians 5:4

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Hope that works out well for you brother.

BobRyan · Jul 2, 2016

In the subject of the thread - a few texts often being ignored because they are irrefutable -- is that the ten commandments are seen in Eph 6:2, Matt 19, Romans 13, James 2 - as a unit as in the appeal to the "Commandments of God" always gets some OT text - most-often the Ten Commandments quoted.

================== from the OP we have -

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid 1 John.

=====================================

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid James 2.

=========================================

Your entire argument is based on your own claim to be able to judge others in how well they keep a given commandment. (Christ speaks of that flaw in Matt 7... have you noticed?)

Rom 2
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

(He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - - will feel the need to avoid Romans 2.)

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

======================

Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 5:192.

=====================================

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

He who teaches bending-editing-downsizing the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Mark 7.

"Love ME and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6 -- from the TEN Commandments.

No wonder NT authors affirm the TEN Commandments as part of the moral law of God for the saints

===================================

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

He who teaches that the TEN Commandments have nothing to do with the Commandments of God in the NT - - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 19:18.[/QUOTE]

BobRyan · Jul 2, 2016

Sophrosyne said: ↑
I'm sorry but you have yet to show proof that it is EVER commanded of ANYONE in the New Testament.

I am sorry but you have yet to show the the Rev 21 "New Heavens and New Earth" mentioned in Is 66:23 is in the OT and not the NT. Sadly for your preferences - this point is irrefutable.

So also the NT statement by Christ "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.

And "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.

And "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water" Rev 14:7

"For in Six days the LORD MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them" Ex 20:11

The TEN Commandment unit in which the 5th commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

ToBeLoved · Jul 2, 2016

BobRyan said:
And of course - for all eternity even in the "New Heavens and New Earth" after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

This is not a proof text for the Sabbath.

This is talking about the New Heavens and New Earth. That is not under the New Covenant. Nice try.

God's Commandments include the TEN Commandments in the NT

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