God's 7000 year timeline for mankind.

[Strong in Him]

That is because understanding of the Prophesies is not given until the last days. Daniel 12:10
Date setting is allowed on this forum.

Not according to the rules, it isn't.

• Biblical end times date setting or date speculation is not allowed.

Never heard of Isreal. Oh; you mean ISRAEL.

Don't pretend that you didn't know that's what I meant.

When He was acclaimed KIng and subsequently killed; is important. The OP timeline has that date as 29/30 AD

For you, maybe.
It doesn't affect anything and it remains to see if things will pan out as you seem to think they will.

 

[P1LGR1M]

A rapture removal isn't going to happen. We must endure until the end.

We see a Rapture in the middle of the Seven Year Tribulation.

That is what I believe, as it is what the Bible tells us of God's Plan for mankind.

So how is it that there is a great multitude of physical unbelievers at the end of the Tribulation?

Since the Rapture of the Church is of both the living and dead of the Church, meaning that all of us are raptured at the same time, how is it that there is a rapture in the Middle of the Tribulation and one implied at the end of the Tribulation? These are not the Rapture Paul describes.

Can't be.

If the entire Church is raptured at the end of the Tribulation and all unbelievers are destroyed (the Sheep and Goat Judgment, the Supper of the Great God), that leaves no one left to populate the Millennial Kingdom.

Revelation 20:4-6 limits the resurrection of the dead to those who are martyrs of the Tribulation. The rest of the dead live not again until the Great White Throne at the end of the one thousand years.

Who populates the Millennial Kingdom?


God bless.

 

[keras]

Not according to the rules, it isn't.

This area of christianforums.com, does allow dates to be posted.
The way to show any objections. is to prove me wrong.

Don't pretend that you didn't know that's what I meant.

I strongly object to the mis-spelling of Israel.
It shows carelessness. What else are you careless about?

For you, maybe.
It doesn't affect anything and it remains to see if things will pan out as you seem to think they will.

So you don't think the acclamation of Jesus as King and His death 3 days later was the critical point in the history of mankind?
That happened 1992 years ago. The OP proves how God Planned 3 2000 year tranches and then the 1000 years of Sabbath rest.

We see a Rapture in the middle of the Seven Year Tribulation.

I and many other careful studiers of the Bible; don't see that. A 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is never stated; it has to be inferred by conjecture, surmise, assumption and sheer guesswork.

So how is it that there is a great multitude of physical unbelievers at the end of the Tribulation?

They are all the people who have taken the mark of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:3

Revelation 20:4-6 limits the resurrection of the dead to those who are martyrs of the Tribulation. The rest of the dead live not again until the Great White Throne at the end of the one thousand years.

Well, you got that right! Your comments above this, show your confusion.

Who populates the Millennial Kingdom?

All of the faithful Christian peoples. Everyone who stood firm it their faith thru all the trials and testing.
Actually, the majority of them will be those people taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14
When Jesus Returns, He will send His angels to gather them all. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:17

 

[Strong in Him]

This area of christianforums.com, does allow dates to be posted.
The way to show any objections. is to prove me wrong.

I can't prove you are wrong.
You can't prove you are right.

I strongly object to the mis-spelling of Israel.
It shows carelessness. What else are you careless about?

Actually I was in a hurry and just didn't notice I had typed two letters round the wrong way.
But I could have had a migraine or be dyslexic.
What else are you judgemental about?

So you don't think the acclamation of Jesus as King and His death 3 days later was the critical point in the history of mankind?

Jesus was king before they hailed him as king of the Jews.
Jesus' saving death on the cross is clearly a central part of the Gospel; I don't think I said otherwise.
But the date of it isn't.
Whether he died 29, 30, 32 AD or later, the important thing is that he died for the sins of the world, to reconcile mankind to God. Knowing the date of the crucifixion won't save us; the important doctrine is that he died for us.

That happened 1992 years ago. The OP proves how God Planned 3 2000 year tranches and then the 1000 years of Sabbath rest.

In your view.
I don't believe God is governed by our man made calendar. And the world is way older than 6,000 years.

 

[keras]

I can't prove you are wrong.

No, because I post the Bible truths.

You can't prove you are right.

I did prove the 7000 year time of Gods Plan for mankind in #1.

What else are you judgemental about?

I am not the Judge, but people who reject plainly stated Words of scripture, need to be warned of their errors. Its called brotherly love. to correct a fellow Christian.

Jesus was king before they hailed him as king of the Jews.

Rubbish, He came as a servant in His First Advent.

Jesus' saving death on the cross is clearly a central part of the Gospel; I don't think I said otherwise.
But the date of it isn't.

We all thank Him for His great Atoning sacrifice. It is the pivotal point of human history, and it happened in 29/30 AD. 1992 years ago.
This fact makes us the generation who will see it all, Matthew 24:34 The end time events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus. to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords for the next thousand years.

And the world is way older than 6,000 years.

The earth is, but mankind with a God given soul; is just 5992 years old.

 

[Strong in Him]

No, because I post the Bible truths.

I did prove the 7000 year time of Gods Plan for mankind in #1.

If you say so.
The proof will be if it happens.

I am not the Judge, but people who reject plainly stated Words of scripture, need to be warned of their errors. Its called brotherly love. to correct a fellow Christian.

You weren't talking about my "errors of Scripture", you were complaining that I had made a mistake when writing Israel.

We all thank Him for His great Atoning sacrifice. It is the pivotal point of human history,

It's one of them - the resurrection is THE pivotal point of history.
Without the resurrection, Jesus would be a dead Messiah and teacher.
Without the resurrection there would be no church; probably no Christianity.

and it happened in 29/30 AD. 1992 years ago.

If you say so.
Our calendar has, of course, changed since then.

This fact makes us the generation who will see it all, Matthew 24:34

Matthew 24:34 does not say that WE will see the second coming.

The earth is, but mankind with a God given soul; is just 5992 years old.

If you say so.

While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago

universetoday.com

 

[P1LGR1M]

We see a Rapture in the middle of the Seven Year Tribulation.

I and many other careful studiers of the Bible; don't see that.

Can't say I see being careful when something so obvious is missed.

What is a rapture? It is a resurrection and a catching away:


1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
King James Version

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The dead in Christ are raised to life, those alive are raised to life (glorified, implied due to the fact that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven), and then the Church as a whole is caught up. The speculation occurs when someone confuses the parousia of the Lord with the Rapture of the Church.

That the Two Witnesses are raptured is clearly seen:


Revelation 11:8-12
King James Version

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


It is interesting to note that of the four time ptōma is used, two of the four are easily seen to be referring to dead bodies. Here are the other two:


Mat 24:28
For wheresoever the carcase G4430 is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Mar 6:29
And when his disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, G4430 and laid it in a tomb.

So to deny that the Two Witnesses are raptured doesn't seem like careful study to me.

In both the Rapture of the Church and the rapture of the Two Witnesses we see the dead glorified and then caught up to heaven. "Heaven" and heavens is also used to describe the sky, but given the context of both passages it is probably best to view this as being caught into Heaven, rather into the sky only:


Acts 1:9-10
King James Version

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;


We know the Lord went to Heaven, and that is what happens to the Church and the Two Witnesses when they are raptured (caught up).

A 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is never stated;

Then where exactly do the Church and the Two Witnesses go when they are caught up?

it has to be inferred by conjecture, surmise, assumption and sheer guesswork.

No, it is the simple statement of Scripture, and it denies your teaching:

A rapture removal isn't going to happen. We must endure until the end.

And we will see the other errors you were so good to throw in on top of that one in just a bit.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

So how is it that there is a great multitude of physical unbelievers at the end of the Tribulation?

They are all the people who have taken the mark of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:3

They can't possibly be.

Have you never read...


Revelation 20:4-6
King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


We see the Tribulation Martyrs to life again, and we can identify them as such because receiving the mark of the beast is specific to Tribulation.

The rest of the dead, however, do not live again until the thousand years are over.


Revelation 19:19-21
King James Version

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


This is the dead that lived not again until the thousand years were over.

Then we have a thousand years of Christ's Millennial Kingdom, and then those who received the mark of the beast "live again" and are cast into the Lake of Fire.

The great multitude cannot be those who took the mark of the beast for that reason, as well as the fact that the beast and the false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire before the thousand-year reign of Christ.

So again, where does this great multitude come from?

They are descendants of the believers that enter into the Kingdom of God (the Millennial Kingdom) because they are born again (John 3:3-5).

If all believers are raptured at the end of the Tribulation there are no physical people left to populate the Kingdom or to produce this great multitude of unbelievers.

The math is pretty simple, and I am surprised that you believe there will be a thousand-year reign of Christ but don't see the impossibility of a Post-Tribulation Rapture.

Even more surprised you would deny the Two Witnesses are raptured.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Since the Rapture of the Church is of both the living and dead of the Church, meaning that all of us are raptured at the same time, how is it that there is a rapture in the Middle of the Tribulation and one implied at the end of the Tribulation?

Well, you got that right! Your comments above this, show your confusion.

No confusion, there is a Rapture right at the mid-point of the Tribulation.

The Two Witnesses minister for 3 1/2 years unhindered and impervious to the harms of anyone:


Revelation 11
King James Version

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


They are killed.

They are raised from the dead and caught up.

This is a rapture and the First Resurrection.


The Beast also "ministers" for 3 1/2 years:


Revelation 13:4-6
King James Version

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.


Their ministries are not concurrent.

And it is when they are killed and "taken out of the way" that the Beast, the Antichrist—stands in the Temple and proclaims himself God.


Matthew 24:15-16
King James Version

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Daniel also speaks of 3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation:


Daniel 12:6-7
King James Version

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


But he also adds that there will be 75 days left after that 3 1/2 years:


Daniel 12:11-12
King James Version

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


&5 days that I believe will be the gathering and judgment of the Nations (the Sheep and Goat Judgment) and the establishing of the Kingdom.

Satan is cast into the pit at the end of the Tribulation and this gives him 75 days at the end of the Millennial Kingdom to work his mischief, gather unbelievers under him, and be destroyed together with them:


Revelation 20:7-10
King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


John was good enough to give us a reminder that the beast and the false prophet are already in the Lake of Fire, so we can see that your teaching that the great multitude are those that take the mark of the beast is in error. Or confusion, if that is a preferred description.

Do you want to say that people are worshiping the beast and taking his mark in the Millennial Kingdom?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Who populates the Millennial Kingdom?

All of the faithful Christian peoples.

So it is faithful Christian People that join forces with Satan?


Revelation 20:7-9
King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


These are "faithful Christian people?"

Everyone who stood firm it their faith thru all the trials and testing.

Not everyone: those who were killed are raised to life again:


Revelation 20:4
King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


This is the First (protos) Resurrection. First qualitatively, not the first in sequence.

In sequence is...

1. The Resurrection of the Lord, the first that should rise from the dead (Acts 26:23);

2. They are Christ's at His coming: beginning with His return for the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17);

3. The resurrection of the Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:11-12);

4. They that are Christ's at His coming (the Parousia, Revelation 20:4);

5. The resurrection of the dead that takes place after the thousand-year reign of Christ:


Revelation 20:5
King James Version

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


The "First Resurrection" is descriptive and not meant to deny the timeline of resurrection and the individual events of resurrection that happen.

It is contrasted with the second type of resurrection which is not the resurrection unto life, but is the resurrection unto damnation, the Second Death.

It is pretty easy to see that those who die in the Tribulation that took the mark of the beast and worshiped him are not part of the First Resurrection, and that because only the dead are raised it is not likely the Rapture of the Church.

The Rapture of the Church, therefore, can only take place prior to the Tribulation because we have to have someone to produce the unbelieving great multitude of unbelievers that are destroyed at the end of the thousand-year reign of Christ.

And since we see a rapture in the middle of the Week we cannot place the rapture at the end of the Millennial Kingdom because Paul teaches that the church as a whole, both living and dead—are raptured at the same time.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Actually, the majority of them will be those people taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14

Actually, if you carefully study the issue, you will see that it is the believing of Israel that are taken to a place of safety in the last forty-two months of the Tribulation:


Revelation 12
King James Version

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


The woman is Israel.


13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Again, we see Christ's warning:


Matthew 24:15-16
King James Version

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

When Jesus Returns, He will send His angels to gather them all. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:17

He gathers all nations, not just believers, and He then separates them between believing and unbelieving.

He separates the sheep from the goats, and the goats are all physically destroyed because only those who are born again will enter that Kingdom John 3:3-5).

And it is from these living believers (and the Tribulation MArtyrs if they are only physically raised in the First Resurrection) from which comes the unbelieving multitude whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Or in other words, there's going to be quite a lot of them.




God bless.

 

[keras]

Then where exactly do the Church and the Two Witnesses go when they are caught up?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 tells us that when Jesus Returns, those [Christians] who remain will rise to meet Him. So; Jesus has left heaven and is going to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4
It is also the gathering prophesied in Matthew 24:31.

People do not go to heaven, the faithful ones will go with Jesus into the Millenium, where they will be His Priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10

As this thread is about the timeline of God's Plan for mankind, I refer you to the many free articles on the subject of the rapture at: logostelos,info

 

[P1LGR1M]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 tells us that when Jesus Returns, those [Christians] who remain will rise to meet Him. So;

If only verse 17 were relevant we might see this as significant, but since Paul wrote more than v.17 we must maintain all that is relevant:


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
King James Version

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


In the Rapture of the Church, both the living and dead are resurrected and caught up.

That you deny such an obvious Bible Doctrine casts your teaching concerning a young earth into doubt. You ridicule someone over a typo yet it is okay to make an erroneous statement concerning one of the most important characters of the Timeline of History?

So; Jesus has left heaven and is going to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4

Correct. This is His physical Return. When He comes for the Church is His Return for the Church, not the Day of the Lord, or, the Day of Christ.

It is also the gathering prophesied in Matthew 24:31.

I agree: Christ will send out His angels and all nations will be gathered before Him for judgment. He will separate believers from non-believers and the believers will enter into the Millennial Kingdom while the non-believers will be destroyed physically.

This leaves the believers who were born again during the Tribulation to repopulate the earth and produce the non-believing multitude that joins Satan when he is released for 75 days.

People do not go to heaven,

Sure they do, unless you want to argue that Christ is not in Heaven:


2 Corinthians 5
King James Version

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.


Paul is saying that we are groaning to be raptured, that we might receive that body which is heavenly.

We don't groan to die so we can be with the Lord, or in other words, to be "unclothed" from the earthly body, but to be clothed upon with our glorified body.


6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


We aren't with the Lord while we are in this body, but we are confident and willing to be dead and to be present with the Lord.

Where is the Lord right now?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

the faithful ones will go with Jesus into the Millenium,

Agreed. I said that.

And they have to be living, physical, unglorified people in order to produce unbelieving offspring.

If you are going to teach Prophecy please do not omit obvious truths to support an unrelated view.

The only reasonable timing for the Rapture of the Church is a Pre-Tribulational Rapture. Else we end up making a mess of the Timelines we are given and have to create more confusion in order to justify erroneous doctrines we ignore or omit because we want to believe something else.

where they will be His Priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10

In the Millennial Kingdom there will be two kinds of Priests: those of the Kingdom of Priests and Levitical Priests (who are also of the Kingdom of Priests).

People think it might somehow minimize the role of the Levitical Priesthood if they are serving again, but the fact is that an offering for sin in the Millennial Kingdom will be no different than an offering in the Old Testament: it will simply be a picture of the One Offering of Christ.

Nothing wrong with the Hebrew People carrying out their heritage. When they offer up sacrifice for Passover, for example, they will be in obedience to the memorial offering God commanded them to keep. No different than the Lord commanding us to memorialize His death with Communion.

As this thread is about the timeline of God's Plan for mankind, I refer you to the many free articles on the subject of the rapture at: logostelos,info

How exactly is the timing of the Rapture irrelevant to the Timeline of God's Plan for mankind?

Seems to me that this is an important event.

As a YECer I view all details of the Timeline to be important.

If you would prefer I not participate in this thread I am okay with that, and will respect your wishes. I voiced my opinion concerning your statement about the Rapture and see that as a weak point in your timeline. You responded and I have since responded to your comments.

But I will say this: when you teach Prophecy and impose obvious error into the teaching that can be easily shown as error it minimizes the impact you might have in your attempt to minister. If you cannot support what you say in your threads and refuse to respond to problems other Bible Students find with your teaching—okay.

But don't say the Rapture is not in Scripture. Don't say the rapture of the Two Witnesses isn't a rapture.

Those who spiritualize the Timeline of God's Plan for Mankind need to understand the elements of the timeline, all of them.


God bless.

 

[keras]

How exactly is the timing of the Rapture irrelevant to the Timeline of God's Plan for mankind?

Seems to me that this is an important event.

As a YECer I view all details of the Timeline to be important.

If you would prefer I not participate in this thread I am okay with that, and will respect your wishes. I voiced my opinion concerning your statement about the Rapture and see that as a weak point in your timeline. You responded and I have since responded to your comments.

But I will say this: when you teach Prophecy and impose obvious error into the teaching that can be easily shown as error it minimizes the impact you might have in your attempt to minister. If you cannot support what you say in your threads and refuse to respond to problems other Bible Students find with your teaching—okay.

But don't say the Rapture is not in Scripture. Don't say the rapture of the Two Witnesses isn't a rapture.

Those who spiritualize the Timeline of God's Plan for Mankind need to understand the elements of the timeline, all of them.

I do NOT spiritualize the timeline I posted in #1, it is factual.

I realize how upsetting it is for anyone who has always been taught the rapture, to have that theory debunked. A rapture to heaven of the Church, is never prophesied and we are plainly told to stand fire in our faith and endure until the end.

Do humans ever go to heaven?

The belief and teaching that all humans have natural immortality via an immortal soul can be traced back thousands of years. We can see from history that nations like Egypt and Babylon taught their people about an immortal soul in every human, that continued to live, to think and to experience life, after the body had died. Depending on the nation and on their spiritual theology they had, would come various teachings about where and under what conditions this immortal soul would experience after the death of the physical body. Some nations would bury the dead body in graves with all kinds of things for the departed to take with them and to use to enjoy in the afterlife.

Different nations may have had different places where the departed soul would live when it left the dead body, but to put it in simple language, the immortal soul was in a "heaven" of some sort. They even had gloomy underworlds for those not thought to have done enough good in their physical lives to warrant the prize of "heaven."

All this should start to sound somewhat familiar with certain teaching and beliefs of many Christian churches and organizations. Many have heard the "hell-fire and brimstone" sermons preached loud and vigorously by a Christian minister or Camp-meeting tent revivalist. Such preaching of course includes telling you that if you "give your heart to the Lord" and turn from sin, you can "go to heaven" and live in bliss, doing...well they are not sure, maybe singing and strumming on a harp?

Just about all Christians today believe they shall "get to heaven" one day. They firmly believe that going to heaven is one of the basic rewards of being Christian. To think, and to teach

otherwise, to them, is pretty close to being a nutty and strange heretic. They are convinced the Bible shows and tells us that going to heaven is the automatic reward of the children of God. And most believe that going to heaven takes place when the physical body stops breathing and dies. Yet this common and prevailing theological view was not the common view or teaching of the early New Testament Church of God.

The early NT church did not teach or believe in going to heaven at death, for those faithful Christians. Church history shows that it was only through the teachings of people like Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and others that most professing Christians gradually came to adopt the belief of the immortal soul, and going immediately "somewhere" after the death of the body. Many were coming into the popular church of the Roman Empire, founded in Rome, who already held to Hellenistic philosophy, Egyptian mythology, and Babylonian Mystery religions, with an after death life of some sort as the foundation of it all. They did not want to give up this teaching and belief, just as they did not want to abandon many other false teachings and practices. So, to accommodate them the large popular church took many of these old pagan beliefs and re-clothed them with Christian garments. Hence, as the millenniums came and went today's doctrines of the immortal soul as taught together with an ever burning hell fire for the wicked, a purgatory for those who may not have sinned unto eternal torment, and can possibly yet be granted heaven and a heaven where God is, for the righteous. All this came to be church doctrines.

Most Christians believe they will at some point "get to heaven" where God is dwelling. Some do not believe you go to heaven at death, but that death is a sleep until the resurrection, then when Jesus returns to raise the righteous dead, all go back with Him to heaven for a thousand years, until the new earth comes into being. Others believe that Christ returns to "rapture" His Church away from the terrible tribulation then taking place on the earth, and that they spent either 7 years or 3 1/2 years in heaven, before returning again with Christ to set up the

Kingdom of God on earth for a thousand years.

Whatever the various beliefs of certain religious sects and denominations is on this matter, just about all of them teach and believe that the good Christian will someday, for some period

of time "go to heaven" where the Father lives and dwells in the heavenly Jerusalem.


IF WE SHALL GO TO HEAVEN ONE DAY....

And if this is a fundamental plain teaching of the Bible, then surely we should be able to find many verses all over the Bible saying things such as: "When we get to heaven," "When we see each other in heaven," "They are up there in heaven with God," "We shall go to heaven at Christ's return," "We shall be in heaven where God is one day." BUT VERSES LIKE THIS CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

BUT, what we do read in the Bible is the Words of Jesus: No man goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 Where I go, you cannot come. John 7:34 Your home is in this world, Mine is not. John 8:23 I do not pray, Father, that You take them out of this world.... John 17:15

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie; one of his most successful ones, that will cause many unprepared Christians to fall on the Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15


Most Christians think that heaven is our destination and preachers tout it from the pulpit. Why then didn't the people of the Bible use such language? Could it be that they knew that going off to heaven where God the Father now dwells was NEVER promised to any earthy mortal person?

The word "heaven" is used 570 times in the Bible. "Heavenly" appears 23 times and "heavens" is used 121 times. Surely, somewhere, in all those uses we can find a statement: "When we are in heaven" or "We are going to go to heaven" or maybe "He has gone to God in heaven." If you take a Bible concordance you can find all the verses where "heaven," "heavenly," and heavens" are used throughout the Bible. Look them up! See if you can find a verse that says, "We shall go to heaven," "Heaven is our eternal abode," "They are up in heaven" or any plain statement about Christians or children of God going to be with God in heaven for ANY length of time. You have over 500 places where "heaven" is used. Try to find any verse that tells us clearly we shall someday, sometime, go to live where God the Father dwells.

There are THREE heavens mentioned in the Bible. 1) The heaven [atmosphere] where the birds fly. 2) the heaven [space] where the planets and stars are. 3) The heaven [spiritual] where God's throne is, where God is now.

I knew a man in Christ.... caught up to the THIRD heaven....He was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words....2 Cor. 12:2-4 The third heaven is where God dwells!


KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ?

Some will say, "Well Christ talked about our being in the Kingdom of heaven. Surely that proves we shall 'go to heaven'. If it does, then some shall be in heaven while others are not. Matthew 5:3-5. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven....blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. The Kingdom OF heaven is the Kingdom that BELONGS to heaven. It is owned and operated by heaven. the Kingdom that BELONGS to God, not the Kingdom inside God. The Gospels according to Mark and Luke use "Kingdom OF God"


OUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN

Is not our reward to go to heaven? Are there not some verses that say something to that effect? Here they are: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven.... Matthew 5:12 Do not display your religion before others, if you do you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Matthew 6:1 But lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven.....Luke 6:23 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled…reserved in heaven for you. 1 Peter 1:4

Now, let's be honest. Do the above verses say: "Our reward is to get to heaven" or "When we get to heaven we shall be given our reward." Do these verses say: "Our reserved inheritance is to get to heaven to be with God" ? No, they do not! Truly, Christians will receive rewards and we are to inherit eternal life, but when? Eternal life comes at the resurrection. Read 1 Cor.15; Rev.2:10; 2 Tim.4:8 Our rewards are to be given to us by Christ at His return. And, behold, I come quickly, and MY REWARD IS WITH ME, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev. 22:12 Our rewards and inheritance are reserved in heaven. They come down out of heaven with Christ at his return.


NAMED TO GO TO HEAVEN?

Are not Christians named and written down in a book to go to heaven? ….but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven Luke 10:20 To the general assembly and church of

the firstborn, which are written in heaven....Heb. 12:23

Do these verses say, "Because you will go to heaven" or "The church of the firstborn will one day get to heaven" ? No! Our names (God knows who are His) are written down in the book of

life, the book of life being in heaven. But we receive life eternal after the Great White Throne Judgement, when the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15


OUR HOPE....TO GO TO HEAVEN?

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel. Col.1:5 What is the hope for Christians? Paul answers in

another letter he wrote: But if there be NO RESURRECTION of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.....then they which are also fallen asleep in Christ are PERISHED....For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man on his own order: Christ the firstfruits: AFTERWARDS they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING. 1 Cor. 15: 13-23

Our HOPE is Christ, who has been raised from the dead and is now in heaven, waiting to be sent back to this earth when He shall reing as King for 1000 years.

Colossians 1:5 does NOT say, "Our hope is to get to heaven." Or "The church's hope is to be with Christ in heaven." It says: our HOPE is kept in heaven. That hope is Christ and His Return. Philippians 3:20 Christian believers are citizens of heaven and from heaven we can expect our Deliverer to come: The Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice! This Kingdom is in heaven that we are citizens of. If we be Christ's, we belong to His family. We are brothers of His, we are part of God's family, His children, and so of His government, kingdom, which is at present in heaven. Not that we are in heaven, for the reality is: we live on earth, but the Kingdom, where our citizenship is; that we now belong to, is in heaven.


NO MAN HAS EVER GONE TO HEAVEN

Here is a plain and easy to understand verse: And NO MAN has ASCENDED up to heaven, except for He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13 BELIEVE what Christ said, He should know. He was in heaven with the Father from the beginning, and He did not see any human ever come from earth up to heaven. It’s indisputable, Enoch could not have gone to the third heaven, neither did Moses, nor did Elijah. All humans who have ever lived, or will live, up to the Return of Jesus and are not still alive when Jesus comes, will sleep in death. They will be in the grave, and the martyrs, those killed for their faith, Revelation 20:4, wait to hear the voice of the Son of man, to rise from the dead in a resurrection. Then, for a thousand years they shall reign with Christ on His throne over this earth, as they establish the Kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 20:4

At the end of the thousand years comes the new heavens and the new earth. Then the heavenly Jerusalem together with God the Father will come from heaven to this new earth, which will then become the dwelling place of the throne of the universe for all Eternity.


What we can say is that we, the children of God, will one day be in heaven.....yes.....when heaven comes to earth. Revelation 21:1-4 But what we cannot say is that any human will be taken up to heaven to avoid the wrath to come. The Lord promises protection to all these who place their trust in Him and this may be a profound spiritual experience. Nahum 1:1-8, Isaiah 43:2, +

Ref: Keith Hunt

 

[P1LGR1M]

I do NOT spiritualize the timeline I posted in #1, it is factual.

I realize how upsetting it is for anyone who has always been taught the rapture, to have that theory debunked. A rapture to heaven of the Church, is never prophesied and we are plainly told to stand fire in our faith and endure until the end.

Do humans ever go to heaven?

The belief and teaching that all humans have natural immortality via an immortal soul can be traced back thousands of years. We can see from history that nations like Egypt and Babylon taught their people about an immortal soul in every human, that continued to live, to think and to experience life, after the body had died. Depending on the nation and on their spiritual theology they had, would come various teachings about where and under what conditions this immortal soul would experience after the death of the physical body. Some nations would bury the dead body in graves with all kinds of things for the departed to take with them and to use to enjoy in the afterlife.

Different nations may have had different places where the departed soul would live when it left the dead body, but to put it in simple language, the immortal soul was in a "heaven" of some sort. They even had gloomy underworlds for those not thought to have done enough good in their physical lives to warrant the prize of "heaven."

All this should start to sound somewhat familiar with certain teaching and beliefs of many Christian churches and organizations. Many have heard the "hell-fire and brimstone" sermons preached loud and vigorously by a Christian minister or Camp-meeting tent revivalist. Such preaching of course includes telling you that if you "give your heart to the Lord" and turn from sin, you can "go to heaven" and live in bliss, doing...well they are not sure, maybe singing and strumming on a harp?

Just about all Christians today believe they shall "get to heaven" one day. They firmly believe that going to heaven is one of the basic rewards of being Christian. To think, and to teach

otherwise, to them, is pretty close to being a nutty and strange heretic. They are convinced the Bible shows and tells us that going to heaven is the automatic reward of the children of God. And most believe that going to heaven takes place when the physical body stops breathing and dies. Yet this common and prevailing theological view was not the common view or teaching of the early New Testament Church of God.

The early NT church did not teach or believe in going to heaven at death, for those faithful Christians. Church history shows that it was only through the teachings of people like Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and others that most professing Christians gradually came to adopt the belief of the immortal soul, and going immediately "somewhere" after the death of the body. Many were coming into the popular church of the Roman Empire, founded in Rome, who already held to Hellenistic philosophy, Egyptian mythology, and Babylonian Mystery religions, with an after death life of some sort as the foundation of it all. They did not want to give up this teaching and belief, just as they did not want to abandon many other false teachings and practices. So, to accommodate them the large popular church took many of these old pagan beliefs and re-clothed them with Christian garments. Hence, as the millenniums came and went today's doctrines of the immortal soul as taught together with an ever burning hell fire for the wicked, a purgatory for those who may not have sinned unto eternal torment, and can possibly yet be granted heaven and a heaven where God is, for the righteous. All this came to be church doctrines.

Most Christians believe they will at some point "get to heaven" where God is dwelling. Some do not believe you go to heaven at death, but that death is a sleep until the resurrection, then when Jesus returns to raise the righteous dead, all go back with Him to heaven for a thousand years, until the new earth comes into being. Others believe that Christ returns to "rapture" His Church away from the terrible tribulation then taking place on the earth, and that they spent either 7 years or 3 1/2 years in heaven, before returning again with Christ to set up the

Kingdom of God on earth for a thousand years.

Whatever the various beliefs of certain religious sects and denominations is on this matter, just about all of them teach and believe that the good Christian will someday, for some period

of time "go to heaven" where the Father lives and dwells in the heavenly Jerusalem.


IF WE SHALL GO TO HEAVEN ONE DAY....

And if this is a fundamental plain teaching of the Bible, then surely we should be able to find many verses all over the Bible saying things such as: "When we get to heaven," "When we see each other in heaven," "They are up there in heaven with God," "We shall go to heaven at Christ's return," "We shall be in heaven where God is one day." BUT VERSES LIKE THIS CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

BUT, what we do read in the Bible is the Words of Jesus: No man goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 Where I go, you cannot come. John 7:34 Your home is in this world, Mine is not. John 8:23 I do not pray, Father, that You take them out of this world.... John 17:15

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie; one of his most successful ones, that will cause many unprepared Christians to fall on the Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15


Most Christians think that heaven is our destination and preachers tout it from the pulpit. Why then didn't the people of the Bible use such language? Could it be that they knew that going off to heaven where God the Father now dwells was NEVER promised to any earthy mortal person?

The word "heaven" is used 570 times in the Bible. "Heavenly" appears 23 times and "heavens" is used 121 times. Surely, somewhere, in all those uses we can find a statement: "When we are in heaven" or "We are going to go to heaven" or maybe "He has gone to God in heaven." If you take a Bible concordance you can find all the verses where "heaven," "heavenly," and heavens" are used throughout the Bible. Look them up! See if you can find a verse that says, "We shall go to heaven," "Heaven is our eternal abode," "They are up in heaven" or any plain statement about Christians or children of God going to be with God in heaven for ANY length of time. You have over 500 places where "heaven" is used. Try to find any verse that tells us clearly we shall someday, sometime, go to live where God the Father dwells.

There are THREE heavens mentioned in the Bible. 1) The heaven [atmosphere] where the birds fly. 2) the heaven [space] where the planets and stars are. 3) The heaven [spiritual] where God's throne is, where God is now.

I knew a man in Christ.... caught up to the THIRD heaven....He was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words....2 Cor. 12:2-4 The third heaven is where God dwells!


KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ?

Some will say, "Well Christ talked about our being in the Kingdom of heaven. Surely that proves we shall 'go to heaven'. If it does, then some shall be in heaven while others are not. Matthew 5:3-5. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven....blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. The Kingdom OF heaven is the Kingdom that BELONGS to heaven. It is owned and operated by heaven. the Kingdom that BELONGS to God, not the Kingdom inside God. The Gospels according to Mark and Luke use "Kingdom OF God"


OUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN

Is not our reward to go to heaven? Are there not some verses that say something to that effect? Here they are: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven.... Matthew 5:12 Do not display your religion before others, if you do you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Matthew 6:1 But lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven.....Luke 6:23 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled…reserved in heaven for you. 1 Peter 1:4

Now, let's be honest. Do the above verses say: "Our reward is to get to heaven" or "When we get to heaven we shall be given our reward." Do these verses say: "Our reserved inheritance is to get to heaven to be with God" ? No, they do not! Truly, Christians will receive rewards and we are to inherit eternal life, but when? Eternal life comes at the resurrection. Read 1 Cor.15; Rev.2:10; 2 Tim.4:8 Our rewards are to be given to us by Christ at His return. And, behold, I come quickly, and MY REWARD IS WITH ME, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev. 22:12 Our rewards and inheritance are reserved in heaven. They come down out of heaven with Christ at his return.


NAMED TO GO TO HEAVEN?

Are not Christians named and written down in a book to go to heaven? ….but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven Luke 10:20 To the general assembly and church of

the firstborn, which are written in heaven....Heb. 12:23

Do these verses say, "Because you will go to heaven" or "The church of the firstborn will one day get to heaven" ? No! Our names (God knows who are His) are written down in the book of

life, the book of life being in heaven. But we receive life eternal after the Great White Throne Judgement, when the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15


OUR HOPE....TO GO TO HEAVEN?

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel. Col.1:5 What is the hope for Christians? Paul answers in

another letter he wrote: But if there be NO RESURRECTION of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.....then they which are also fallen asleep in Christ are PERISHED....For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man on his own order: Christ the firstfruits: AFTERWARDS they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING. 1 Cor. 15: 13-23

Our HOPE is Christ, who has been raised from the dead and is now in heaven, waiting to be sent back to this earth when He shall reing as King for 1000 years.

Colossians 1:5 does NOT say, "Our hope is to get to heaven." Or "The church's hope is to be with Christ in heaven." It says: our HOPE is kept in heaven. That hope is Christ and His Return. Philippians 3:20 Christian believers are citizens of heaven and from heaven we can expect our Deliverer to come: The Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice! This Kingdom is in heaven that we are citizens of. If we be Christ's, we belong to His family. We are brothers of His, we are part of God's family, His children, and so of His government, kingdom, which is at present in heaven. Not that we are in heaven, for the reality is: we live on earth, but the Kingdom, where our citizenship is; that we now belong to, is in heaven.


NO MAN HAS EVER GONE TO HEAVEN

Here is a plain and easy to understand verse: And NO MAN has ASCENDED up to heaven, except for He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13 BELIEVE what Christ said, He should know. He was in heaven with the Father from the beginning, and He did not see any human ever come from earth up to heaven. It’s indisputable, Enoch could not have gone to the third heaven, neither did Moses, nor did Elijah. All humans who have ever lived, or will live, up to the Return of Jesus and are not still alive when Jesus comes, will sleep in death. They will be in the grave, and the martyrs, those killed for their faith, Revelation 20:4, wait to hear the voice of the Son of man, to rise from the dead in a resurrection. Then, for a thousand years they shall reign with Christ on His throne over this earth, as they establish the Kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 20:4

At the end of the thousand years comes the new heavens and the new earth. Then the heavenly Jerusalem together with God the Father will come from heaven to this new earth, which will then become the dwelling place of the throne of the universe for all Eternity.


What we can say is that we, the children of God, will one day be in heaven.....yes.....when heaven comes to earth. Revelation 21:1-4 But what we cannot say is that any human will be taken up to heaven to avoid the wrath to come. The Lord promises protection to all these who place their trust in Him and this may be a profound spiritual experience. Nahum 1:1-8, Isaiah 43:2, +

Ref: Keith Hunt

You did spiritualize the Timeline in Revelation.

Not sure why you think appealing to secular history and mythology negates the fact that when we die—we go to be with the Lord.

Not sure why you cannot simply admit that the Two Witnesses are raptured, or recognize why this spiritualizes the Timeline of God's Plan for Man.

Will God vacate His realm?

New Jerusalem bridges Heaven and Earth, and we will dwell with God in that heavenly city.

I will come back to this, but thanks in advance for the response.


God bless.

 

[keras]

You did spiritualize the Timeline in Revelation.

I stick firmly to the given sequence in Revelation; Seals, Trumpets, Bowls, the Return of Jesus, His Millennium reign and then Eternity.

Not sure why you think appealing to secular history and mythology negates the fact that when we die—we go to be with the Lord.

Because the Bible says we die and go into the grave. Eccl 9:5
Only after the Millennium, does everyone who has ever lived, rise to stand before God in Judgment.

Not sure why you cannot simply admit that the Two Witnesses are raptured, or recognize why this spiritualizes the Timeline of God's Plan for Man.

Sure, Jesus does call them up to Him, after He has come down from heaven, on His way to Jerusalem. The 2W rise, along with all those who remain and are with Hi in the Millennium. Matthew 24:30-31

Will God vacate His realm?

God is omnipresent. Your question is invalid.

New Jerusalem bridges Heaven and Earth, and we will dwell with God in that heavenly city.

That will happen after the Millennium. In Eternity. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[Original Happy Camper]

WE Christians will rebuild Jerusalem and the new Temple

and the purpose of the new temple is?

 

[Hmm]

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie

Like anything, it's important how you interpret it. NT Wright gives a sane and informed interpretation of the rapture: it's not meant to be taken literally because it's a literary device Paul uses to conjure up images of an emperor visiting a colony or province. The custom at the time was for citizens to go out to meet him in open country and then escort him into the city. So the image of when "we meet Him in the air" should be read with the assumption that we will immediately turn around and lead Him back to the newly remade world.

So no need to accuse anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of scripture of being in league with Beelzebub and his little friends.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I stick firmly to the given sequence in Revelation; Seals, Trumpets, Bowls, the Return of Jesus, His Millennium reign and then Eternity.

You don't stick with the Timeline if you do not recognize that there is a rapture prior to the end of the Tribulation. Right in the very middle of the Tribulation.

There is no way to place this rapture at the end of the Tribulation or the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

Because the Bible says we die and go into the grave. Eccl 9:5

Only if you believe man has a soul, rather than the Biblical Definition that man is a soul:


Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


The rich man was not in a grave, he was in Hades.

But let me guess: this is just figurative?

As I said, spiritualization of Scripture is the answer to removing from Scripture that which does not fit with what one wants to believe.

There is a consistent timeline of events in Revelation and it has a rapture at the mid-point of the Tribulation.

Thus we must understand "the First Resurrection" is not defining it as sequential. It is the "first" resurrection of the two taught by Christ:


John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


We have the Two Witnesses resurrected at the mid-point, only the Tribulation Martyrs at the end, and the general resurrection of the dead at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. Did I misunderstand you to mean that there is only one resurrection?

Please list the timeline of resurrection.


Continued...