Godfire - a Word Study

[Charlie24]

As Steve says - I have come to believe that Jesus the Christ baptizes with fire, and that we are ALL must be salted with fire. That is exactly why we cannot stand in the Presence in our carnal flesh: we would go <poof>. For the same reason, we cannot enter the Kingdom in our flesh - we must put on new flesh, just as Jesus boasts that He has made all things new.

When John the Baptist said, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire, he was referring to the change that takes place inside man at salvation.

This is a new man in Christ and the old man is dead. Paul explains it in his letter to the Romans.

The baptism with fire is the Holy Spirit purging or burning away the stain of sin inside the new creature in Christ. The Holy Spirit is now dwelling inside that new creature in Christ.

 

[FineLinen]

When John the Baptist said, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire, he was referring to the change that takes place inside man at salvation.

Nonsense:

There are three relationships of the Spirit of the Lord, in, with and upon. One can be in Him and with Him and not have a foggy idea of the baptism of the Spirit & fire!

In > > With > > Upon

 

[Saint Steven]

When John the Baptist said, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire, he was referring to the change that takes place inside man at salvation.

This is a new man in Christ and the old man is dead. Paul explains it in his letter to the Romans.

The baptism with fire is the Holy Spirit purging or burning away the stain of sin inside the new creature in Christ. The Holy Spirit is now dwelling inside that new creature in Christ.

That's the Cessationist view.

Were the Apostles saved before Pentecost? (of course)
Did they have the indwelling Spirit before Pentecost? (of course)

Jesus instructed them to wait for the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
At Pentecost the Spirit came on them (salted with fire) and THEN they were FILLED with the Spirit. Not before.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:3-4
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[Charlie24]

Nonsense:

There are three relationships of the Spirit of the Lord, in, with and upon. One can be in Him and with Him and not have a foggy idea of the baptism of the Spirit & fire!

In > > With > > Upon

That's right! But how is it nonsense?

 

[Saint Steven]

The baptism with fire is the Holy Spirit purging or burning away the stain of sin inside the new creature in Christ. The Holy Spirit is now dwelling inside that new creature in Christ.

If you would believe that about living believers, why would you deny it is possible in the afterlife?

1 Peter 3:19-22
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's right! But how is it nonsense?

Your previous statement limited the work of the Holy Spirit to "in".
What about "with" and "upon"?

 

[Charlie24]

If you would believe that about living believers, why would you deny it is possible in the afterlife?

1 Peter 3:19-22
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Ecc. 9:3-4
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

 

[Charlie24]

Your previous statement limited the work of the Holy Spirit to "in".
What about "with" and "upon"?

The famous univ. play on words.

Whether in, with, or upon, the Holy Spirit can do no more than the individual will allow.

He forces nothing on us but judgement in the end.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Ecc. 9:3-4
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Solomon wrote as one who saw sheol as the end, but today we know things Solomon did not know.

 

[Lazarus Short]

The famous univ. play on words.

Advocates of Hell have their own plays on words.

 

[Charlie24]

That's the Cessationist view.

Were the Apostles saved before Pentecost? (of course)
Did they have the indwelling Spirit before Pentecost? (of course)

Jesus instructed them to wait for the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
At Pentecost the Spirit came on them (salted with fire) and THEN they were FILLED with the Spirit. Not before.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:3-4
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Wrong again Steven!
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

Jesus was glorified and made it possible for the Holy Spirit to come dwell inside man, when rose from the dead. He sent the indwelling Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

 

[Charlie24]

Solomon wrote as one who saw sheol as the end, but today we know things Solomon did not know.

That's according to the narrative of Univ.

 

[Charlie24]

Advocates of Hell have their own plays on words.

There are no unbelievers in hell, but it's to late for them.

They chose not to believe on this side of the grave.

 

[Saint Steven]

Ecc. 9:3-4
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Bad idea to base your doctrine on a poetry book.

Besides, the focus of Ecclesiastes is on "all things that are done under the sun", not about the afterlife. Would you base your doctrine on verse 5 that follows your quote?
Do you believe you will have no further reward than life under the sun?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

 

[Saint Steven]

The famous univ. play on words.

Whether in, with, or upon, the Holy Spirit can do no more than the individual will allow.

He forces nothing on us but judgement in the end.

More nonsense.
You need to study up on the Holy Spirit.
Did the OT Prophets operate by the Spirit "in", "with", or "upon"?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Your previous statement limited the work of the Holy Spirit to "in".
What about "with" and "upon"?

 

[Charlie24]

Bad idea to base your doctrine on a poetry book.

Besides, the focus of Ecclesiastes is on "all things that are done under the sun", not about the afterlife. Would you base your doctrine on verse 5 that follows your quote?
Do you believe you will have no further reward than life under the sun?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

If you reject Gods plan for man there is no more reward after life.

Unless you consider the judgement of eternal punishment is a rreward.

 

[Saint Steven]

Wrong again Steven!
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

Jesus was glorified and made it possible for the Holy Spirit to come dwell inside man, when rose from the dead. He sent the indwelling Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Don't be so quick to claim victory.

Did this happen before Pentecost? (yup)

John 20:20-22
After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you reject Gods plan for man there is no more reward after life.

Unless you consider the judgement of eternal punishment is a rreward.

This isn't about the "lost" and the saved. It's about the living and the dead.
Bad idea to base your doctrine on a poetry book.

What about, "even their name is forgotten"?
Do you want to defend that too?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

 

[Charlie24]

More nonsense.
You need to study up on the Holy Spirit.
Did the OT Prophets operate by the Spirit "in", "with", or "upon"?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Your previous statement limited the work of the Holy Spirit to "in".
What about "with" and "upon"?

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell inside the believer, He is "in" the believer, "with" the believer and "upon" the believer.

But He can only produce from the believer that which the believer is willing to do.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is limited by man in what He can do.

The OT prophets did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, He would move on them in many ways but could not dwell in their hearts as he does now. The sin debt for man had not been paid yet.

 

[Saint Steven]

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell inside the believer, He is "in" the believer, "with" the believer and "upon" the believer.

But He can only produce from the believer that which the believer is willing to do.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is limited by man in what He can do.

The OT prophets did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, He would move on them in many ways but could not dwell in their hearts as he does now. The sin debt for man had not been paid yet.

Do you speak in tongues?