God will Save ALL - Even those considered unorthodox by many denominations

[Kimberlyann]

More ducking...............you're sure that God inspired writers to mention eternity more than once..............then why didnt they..........? why is the word aidios used so sparingly when the definition is eternal..................maybe the writers were inspired to not use aidios because the actual passages were not meant to indicate eternity..........they could have easily used aidios on all the occasions where according to you aion means eternal and yet they didnt................hmmm..........

The use of these words are not by accident. They are here for our understanding. Every word of God is pure and fits its application perfectly.



[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The New American Standard Bible [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Psalms 12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words; As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times. [/FONT]

 

[buddy mack]

You may be sure, but I certainly am not. I see God showing us in His Book a "plan for the ages (aion)". I believe God was more concerned with the revealing of Himself and His plan for redemption which is necessary for us to understand because it teaches us what He plans for eternity.


(NASB) Ephesians 3:11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,

(KJV) Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

(Young) Ephesians 3:11 according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord,

(J.N.Darby Translation 1890) Ephesians 3:11 according to [the] purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

(Rotherham) Ephesians 3:11 According to a plan of the ages which he made in the anointed Jesus our Lord,--



This is why I believe the actual word for eternal (aidios) is not used in the NT as often as the proponents of eternal hellfire would like it to be.


Rom 1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

When a young greek boy would tell a girl, "If you love me>" Then afterwards if he meant it he would say, " I will love you for aidios, however if the young greek boy was just being or doing what boys do, he would say, "I will love you for aion."

now an American boy would say, " I will love you for all ages, or I will love you until the end of time, or I will love you for all times, or i will love you for eternity. Or I will love you until some thing better comes along, which is really what he means.

 

[2ducklow]

You may be sure, but I certainly am not. I see God showing us in His Book a "plan for the ages (aion)". I believe God was more concerned with the revealing of Himself and His plan for redemption which is necessary for us to understand because it teaches us what He plans for eternity.

I quess it comes down to who are you going to believe. Are you going to believe The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dict., Holman treasury of Key Bible Words, the Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Treasures of the Greek New Testament by K.S. Wuest, Liddell and Scott, Lawrence O. Richards Th.M. Ph.D, Joesph H. Thayer D.D., W.J. Hickie M.A., A. T. Robertson,
Harold K. Moulton , Alexander Souter M.A., Goerge R. Berry, Ph,D., , the new englishman"s Greek Concrdance and many many other respected sources of bible knowledge all of whom claim that ainios means eternity, or forever.

Or are you going to believe Ray Smith who says it doesn't mean eternity.

 

[Charlie V]

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting (ainios) God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting (ainios) Amen.
I don't know about you but I believe God has honour and power

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal (ainios) glory Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal (ainios)

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal (ainios) salvation

"Aionios" is an adjective meaning "age-during," or "of the age."

It is a common argument that these passages listed would mean a limited God. Such is not the case.

To say that the Lord is the "God of the Age," or the "Age-during God," does not suggest or imply limitations, which I can prove by comparing similar uses of other words.

God is the God of all people, but doesn't the Bible refer to God as "the God of Abraham"? "The God of Isaac"?

Do these statements limit God, or suggest that He is not the God of all people?

Of course not.

Similarly,

God is the God of all the universe, of the stars, of the moon, of all the constillations. And on Earth, He is the God of land and sea and all that encompasses it.

Doesn't the Bible refer to God as "The God if Isreal?" "The God of the land?" "The God of the whole earth."

Do these statements suggest He is not the God of the whole universe and all that is? Of course not.

Similarly,

To refer to God as the God of the ages, the Age-during God, or the Aonious God, does not suggest or imply that God is not the God of all ages, the Eternal and everlasting God.

It is true that "Aionios" means "age-during" or "of the age," but it is not true that it necessarily limits the noun it modifies.

Similarly, with the age-during glory (or "glory of the age"), the age-during salvation ("salvation of the age"), etc.

Otherwise -- if your logic is right --

The God is only the God of Abraham. Because the Bible says He's "the God of Abraham."

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

I quess it comes down to who are you going to believe.

First and foremost, I believe the Lord Who revealed to me His plan of universal salvation.

Beyond that, I believe those who provide me with the most ample evidence.

The books I've read (some of which I've provided links to in recent posts) demonstrate these words as "age-during," and have outlined the origins of the words, the word roots, have presented lists of Bible verses and writings contemporary to the Biblical writings from various sources, from Homer to Plato to many others too numerous to mention, which have used these words demonstrating that these words could only have had limited meaning. They have further debunked the claims of the others, demonstrating, for example, how an age-during God need not be a limited one, for He is the God of Abraham but that does not make Him a limited God.

So I'll have to say, besides believing what God has revealed to me, I'll believe the abundance of quality, scholarly evidence, and not the list of the flocks who have sought to oppose God's message, the good news of great joy for all people.

Charlie

PS. I can also list a lot of names of those who have demonstrated the truth that aion means 'age.' Then I can conclude saying, "I could believe them, or him," listing one guy who denies the truth that aion means 'age.'
But whether I did it or you did it, it would be a logical fallacy to claim, because this long list believes something and one person stands against them, that the popular majority are the correct ones. For many thousands of years, the popular majority believed the world was flat and persecuted the minority believing otherwise.

 

[2ducklow]

When a young greek boy would tell a girl, "If you love me>" Then afterwards if he meant it he would say, " I will love you for aidios, however if the young greek boy was just being or doing what boys do, he would say, "I will love you for aion."

now an American boy would say, " I will love you for all ages, or I will love you until the end of time, or I will love you for all times, or i will love you for eternity. Or I will love you until some thing better comes along, which is really what he means.

Yea Roy these young whippersnappers today are somethin else.

 

[BoopieSasa]

Whether or not we obtain eternal life is NOT dependant upon our religious beliefs. It is dependant upon our heart condition, which will be read by God and what will be the basis of our salvation. That is why it says in the scriptures to "Guard your heart" because IT is what will determine our judgment.

 

[buddy mack]

Whether or not we obtain eternal life is NOT dependant upon our religious beliefs. It is dependant upon our heart condition, which will be read by God and what will be the basis of our salvation. That is why it says in the scriptures to "Guard your heart" because IT is what will determine our judgment.

guard my heart. R U kidin, I give my heart away to every pretty woman I C.

 

[katallasso]

I quess it comes down to who are you going to believe. Are you going to believe The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dict., Holman treasury of Key Bible Words, the Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Treasures of the Greek New Testament by K.S. Wuest, Liddell and Scott, Lawrence O. Richards Th.M. Ph.D, Joesph H. Thayer D.D., W.J. Hickie M.A., A. T. Robertson,
Harold K. Moulton , Alexander Souter M.A., Goerge R. Berry, Ph,D., , the new englishman"s Greek Concrdance and many many other respected sources of bible knowledge all of whom claim that ainios means eternity, or forever.

Or are you going to believe Ray Smith who says it doesn't mean eternity.

Okey dokey duckie,

How about the Liddell and Scott Lexicon as I myself know very little about Ray Smith.


Liddell-Scott-Jones A Greek Lexicon

[SIZE=+1]αιων[/SIZE] aion onos, ho, Ion. and Ep. also he, as in Pi.P.4.186, E.Ph.1484: apocop. acc. aio like Poseido, restored by Ahrens (from AB363) in A.Ch.350: (properly aiWon, cf. aevum, v. aiei):--period of existence (to telos to periechon ton tes hekastou zoes chronon . . aion hekastou kekletai Arist.Cael.279a25 ):

I. lifetime, life, psuche te kai aion Il.16.453 ; ek d' ai. pephatai Il.19.27 ; mede toi ai. phthineto Od.5.160 ; leipei tina Il.5.685 ; ap' aionos neos oleo (Zenod. neon) 24.725; teleutan ton aiôna Hdt.1.32 , etc.; aionos sterein tina A.Pr.862 ; aiona dioichnein Id.Eu.315 ; sundiatribein Cratin. 1 ; ai. Aiakidan, periphr. for the Aeacidae, S.Aj.645 s. v. l.; apepneusen aiona E.Fr.801 ; emon kat' aiona A.Th.219 .

2. age, generation, ai. es triton ib.744; ho mellon aion posterity, D.18.199, cf. Pl.Ax.370c.

3. one's life, destiny, lot, S.Tr.34, E.Andr.1215, Fr.30, etc.

II. long space of time, age, aion gignetai 'tis an age, Men.536.5; esp. with Preps., ap' aionos of old, Hes.Th.609, Ev.Luc.1.70; hoi apo tou ai. Rhomaioi D.C. 63.20 ; di' aionos perpetually, A.Ch.26, Eu.563; all one's life long, S. El.1024; di' aionos makrou, apaustou, A.Supp.582,574; ton di' ai. chronon for ever, Id.Ag.554; eis hapanta ton ai. Lycurg.106, Isoc.10.62; eis ton ai. LXX Ge.3.23, al., D.S.21.17, Ev.Jo.8.35, Ps.-Luc. Philopatr.17; eis aiona aionos LXX Ps.131(132).14 ; ex aionos kai heos aionos ib.Je.7.7; ep' ai. ib.Ex.15.18; heos aionos ib.1 Ki.1.22, al.:-- without a Prep., ton hapanta ai. Arist. Cael.279a22; ton aiona Lycurg. 62 , Epicur.Ep.1p.8U.; eternity, opp. chronos, Pl.Ti.37d, cf. Metrod. Fr.37, Ph.1.496,619, Plot.3.7.5, etc.; tous huper tou aionos phobous Epicur.Sent.20 .

2. space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, ho aion houtos this present world, opp. ho mellon, Ev.Matt.13.22, cf. Ep.Rom.12.2; ho nun ai. 1 Ep.Tim.6.17, 2 Ep.Tim.4.10:--hence in pl., the ages, i.e. eternity, Phld.D.3 Fr.84; eis pantas tous ai. LXX To.13.4 ; eis tous ai.ib. Si.45.24, al., Ep.Rom.1.25, etc.; eis tous ai. ton aionon LXX 4 Ma.18.24 , Ep.Phil.4.20, etc.; apo ton ai., pro ton ai., Ep.Eph.3.9, 1Cor.2.7; ta tele ton ai. ib.10.11.
[…]
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/resolveform

How does it happen at the very end of all these definitions of the word....even in the Scott Liddell....eternity shows up in a lil blurb at the end? All the others before do not have definitions that relate to eternity at all but are given durations of time. Even in our english dictionaries the first definitions are the ones more appropriate.

kat

 

[StudentoftheWord]

When a young greek boy would tell a girl, "If you love me>" Then afterwards if he meant it he would say, " I will love you for aidios, however if the young greek boy was just being or doing what boys do, he would say, "I will love you for aion."

now an American boy would say, " I will love you for all ages, or I will love you until the end of time, or I will love you for all times, or i will love you for eternity. Or I will love you until some thing better comes along, which is really what he means.

When a young greek boy would tell a girl, "If you love me>" Then afterwards if he meant it he would say, " I will love you for aidios, however if the young greek boy was just being or doing what boys do, he would say, "I will love you for aion."

now an American boy would say, " I will love you for all ages, or I will love you until the end of time, or I will love you for all times, or i will love you for eternity. Or I will love you until some thing better comes along, which is really what he means.

This is one of the best posts I have ever see you make Buddy Mack! Thanks! It is so nice, I quote it twice.

 

[2ducklow]

Okey dokey duckie,

How about the Liddell and Scott Lexicon as I myself know very little about Ray Smith.


Liddell-Scott-Jones A Greek Lexicon

[SIZE=+1]αιων[/SIZE] aion onos, ho, Ion. and Ep. also he, as in Pi.P.4.186, E.Ph.1484: apocop. acc. aio like Poseido, restored by Ahrens (from AB363) in A.Ch.350: (properly aiWon, cf. aevum, v. aiei):--period of existence (to telos to periechon ton tes hekastou zoes chronon . . aion hekastou kekletai Arist.Cael.279a25 ):

I. lifetime, life, psuche te kai aion Il.16.453 ; ek d' ai. pephatai Il.19.27 ; mede toi ai. phthineto Od.5.160 ; leipei tina Il.5.685 ; ap' aionos neos oleo (Zenod. neon) 24.725; teleutan ton aiôna Hdt.1.32 , etc.; aionos sterein tina A.Pr.862 ; aiona dioichnein Id.Eu.315 ; sundiatribein Cratin. 1 ; ai. Aiakidan, periphr. for the Aeacidae, S.Aj.645 s. v. l.; apepneusen aiona E.Fr.801 ; emon kat' aiona A.Th.219 .

2. age, generation, ai. es triton ib.744; ho mellon aion posterity, D.18.199, cf. Pl.Ax.370c.

3. one's life, destiny, lot, S.Tr.34, E.Andr.1215, Fr.30, etc.

II. long space of time, age, aion gignetai 'tis an age, Men.536.5; esp. with Preps., ap' aionos of old, Hes.Th.609, Ev.Luc.1.70; hoi apo tou ai. Rhomaioi D.C. 63.20 ; di' aionos perpetually, A.Ch.26, Eu.563; all one's life long, S. El.1024; di' aionos makrou, apaustou, A.Supp.582,574; ton di' ai. chronon for ever, Id.Ag.554; eis hapanta ton ai. Lycurg.106, Isoc.10.62; eis ton ai. LXX Ge.3.23, al., D.S.21.17, Ev.Jo.8.35, Ps.-Luc. Philopatr.17; eis aiona aionos LXX Ps.131(132).14 ; ex aionos kai heos aionos ib.Je.7.7; ep' ai. ib.Ex.15.18; heos aionos ib.1 Ki.1.22, al.:-- without a Prep., ton hapanta ai. Arist. Cael.279a22; ton aiona Lycurg. 62 , Epicur.Ep.1p.8U.; eternity, opp. chronos, Pl.Ti.37d, cf. Metrod. Fr.37, Ph.1.496,619, Plot.3.7.5, etc.; tous huper tou aionos phobous Epicur.Sent.20 .

2. space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, ho aion houtos this present world, opp. ho mellon, Ev.Matt.13.22, cf. Ep.Rom.12.2; ho nun ai. 1 Ep.Tim.6.17, 2 Ep.Tim.4.10:--hence in pl., the ages, i.e. eternity, Phld.D.3 Fr.84; eis pantas tous ai. LXX To.13.4 ; eis tous ai.ib. Si.45.24, al., Ep.Rom.1.25, etc.; eis tous ai. ton aionon LXX 4 Ma.18.24 , Ep.Phil.4.20, etc.; apo ton ai., pro ton ai., Ep.Eph.3.9, 1Cor.2.7; ta tele ton ai. ib.10.11.
[…]
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/resolveform

How does it happen at the very end of all these definitions of the word....even in the Scott Liddell....eternity shows up in a lil blurb at the end? All the others before do not have definitions that relate to eternity at all but are given durations of time. Even in our english dictionaries the first definitions are the ones more appropriate.

kat

It's still a matter of who are you going to believe.

aijwvn[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]from the same as (104)[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]TDNT Entry[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Aion[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1:197,31[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]ahee-ohn' [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Noun Masculine [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Definition[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]

1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, age

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]

1. http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/NewTestamentGreek/grk.cgi?search=165&version=kjv&type=grk&submit=Find

Universalists believe that aeion means eternity and age. they just don't believe it ever means eternity in the bible, and as far as I can tell universalists only believe there are one or 2 verses where God ever talks about eternity. to see why aeion means eternity read the following.

Another change was necessary in order to arrive at the idea eternity. That change took place, and it was this: The original idea of life was subordinated and disappeared, and ideas of time alone took possession of the whole ground, and aion, instead of denoting life, came to denote time.

The change is seen in its greatest completeness in Marcus Aurelius. In his twelve books of "meditations," so called, he uses aion twenty times, and always denotes by it some form of time, and never life............
............
We are now in a position to see how there could be, without absurdity, a transition of (time) into the sense eternity; for, when it is qualified by adjectives denoting totality, it acquires the sense eternity. All past time is past eternity. All future time is future eternity. All time past, present, and future, is absolute eternity. At first this qualifying adjective was expressed, as we see in Marcus Aurelius. But by degrees it came to be sometimes implied and understood, but not expressed, and aion, with this understanding, was used for eternity. Marcus Aurelius almost always expresses the qualifying adjective, but, in one or two instances, he implies it, and aion alone stands for eternity. Thus (vi., 36), "The present time is a point in (universal) time," i.e., eternity (aion). The same process is seen in Diodorus Siculus, who, in the introduction to his history (i., 1), qualifies aion, and says that "Divine providence has its circuit through all time (aion), and by worlds and seasons creates common relations among men, and causes every age so to revolve as to assign a destined end to each." Here the qualifying adjective is used; but in his statement of theories of the origin of mankind, he introduces it once and omits it once. Thus he says (lib. i., Section 6): "There are two theories as to the origin of men: one that the world was uncreated and immortal, and that men existed from (all) time (aion) and had no beginning of their generation; the other, that all men, by the weakness of nature, live but a small part of all time
aion), and perish for all after-time." In this case, the qualifying adjective is expressed once and omitted once, but the sense in each case is the same. Thus the expression eis ton aiona came sometimes to mean for all time, that is forever, and to eternity. In such cases, Cremer says that it means "for the future," that is, for all time to come. In such a case the article is commonly used.
But this same form, that may thus denote eternity, may also denote for an age, or for a dispensation, in other circumstances.
The transition from the sense life to time and from time to eternity can thus be explained by actual facts. But suppose that the word had, as alleged, begun with the idea eternity. How could it ever have reached the sense life, not including time or eternity? What links could there be for such a transition? The supposition is as much at war with the laws of the mind as it is with actual historical facts.
But, besides this approach to the sense eternity, there is still another of a rhetorical kind, in which aion in the plural is taken in the sense of ages, and, by reduplicated ages, approximates to the conception of eternity. Of this I shall soon speak.
There is still another use of aion, introduced by Plato to denote a kind of philosophical eternity, from which past, present, and future time are eliminated, and absolute being only is retained. This philosophical speculation is unknown to aion in its earlier centuries, and was developed by those who supposed that it had some meaning, though to common-sense minds it is nonsense.
I have thus shown that an appeal to the ancients, like that of Aristotle, can never sustain the assertion that eternity is the original sense of aion. I have shown that for many centuries this sense was unknown, and that it came in only in the later ages of the Greek language. To translate aion eternity in the passage of Aristotle which has been considered would do him a great wrong, for it would represent him as ignorantly contradicting the universal usages of those to whom he appeals.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Retribution/retribution16.htm


once one admidts that aeon means eternity, and sticks to it, the universalist house of cards comes tumbling down. Universalists admidt it when pressed, the knowledgeable ones, but keep it kinda secret when they are explaining things. So that they can deny that aeon ever ever means eternity in the bible. For it would be ludicrous to say aeon means eternity but it never means eternity in the bible.

[/FONT]

 

[visage]

First and foremost, I believe the Lord Who revealed to me His plan of universal salvation.

Beyond that, I believe those who provide me with the most ample evidence.

The books I've read (some of which I've provided links to in recent posts) demonstrate these words as "age-during," and have outlined the origins of the words, the word roots, have presented lists of Bible verses and writings contemporary to the Biblical writings from various sources, from Homer to Plato to many others too numerous to mention, which have used these words demonstrating that these words could only have had limited meaning. They have further debunked the claims of the others, demonstrating, for example, how an age-during God need not be a limited one, for He is the God of Abraham but that does not make Him a limited God.

So I'll have to say, besides believing what God has revealed to me, I'll believe the abundance of quality, scholarly evidence, and not the list of the flocks who have sought to oppose God's message, the good news of great joy for all people.

Charlie

PS. I can also list a lot of names of those who have demonstrated the truth that aion means 'age.' Then I can conclude saying, "I could believe them, or him," listing one guy who denies the truth that aion means 'age.'
But whether I did it or you did it, it would be a logical fallacy to claim, because this long list believes something and one person stands against them, that the popular majority are the correct ones. For many thousands of years, the popular majority believed the world was flat and persecuted the minority believing otherwise.

A fair point, a majority vote is no indicator of truth

 

[Charlie V]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]once one admidts that aeon means eternity, and sticks to it..[/FONT]

once one admidts that aeon means eternity, and sticks to it.. one embraces a tragic error in their understanding of aeon, which I've demonstrated in countless posts showing passages where aeon, and its Hebrew equivelent owlam, could not possibly mean "eternity."

You yourself proved that "owlam" and "aeon" are the same. Here's one of my favorite "owlam" proofs.

Isaiah 63:11 KJV Then he remembered the days of old (owlam), Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Isaiah 63:11 NONSV Then he remembered the days of forever (owlam), Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Poor, poor Moses. Destined to keep repeating the words "Where is he that brought them up," forever and ever. All because owlom means forever.

And it takes a very long time to remember the days of forever..

The idea that owlam and aeon always mean "eternity" is absurd and easily disproven.

That being said, it's the doctrine of hell, and not God's promise of universal salvation, which is a house of cards. The universalist believes in the truth of Christ's promise -- which is a house built on solid ground!

Charlie

 

[2ducklow]

Equating aeonios life to eternal life is an impossibility. "Aeonios" and "eternal" are words having totally different meanings

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/EternityExplained.html

Tentmaker here is saying aeonios does not mean eternal, then later on he contradicts himself and states that it does.

He says (iv. 43): “Time (aion) is a sort of river of events, and a mighty current; for as soon as each event has appeared and has been borne by, still another is carried by and shall be borne onward.” Again (vii., 19): “how many a Chrysippus, how many a Socrates, how many an Epicetetus, has time (aion) already swallowed up!” Again he says (iv., 50): “Behold the immensity of time (aion) behind thee, and before thee another boundless expanse.”

a clear cut undeniable use of aion ,and that outside the bible, meaning eternity. Undeniable. So he doesn't here but he does else where as he did in the first quote.

.
But by degrees it came to be sometimes implied and understood, but not expressed, and aion, with this understanding, was used for eternity

The transition from the sense life to time and from time to eternity can thus be explained by actual facts.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Retribution/retribution16.htm


First he says it can't mean eternal then he says it does.

So as I have stated, universalists when pressed will admidt that aaion means eternal, otherwise they will deny it as this tentmaker site does. or deny any verse in the bible that uses aion uses it to mean eternity. which leads to the illogicality of universalism namely that aion means eternity but never in the bible, God never talks about eternity except 2 times using another differnt word."
therefore since universalism is dependant on this illogicality, its foundation crumbles thus crashing universalism like the town of Herculeum when vesuvius blew up in 70 AD.

 

[Charlie V]

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/EternityExplained.html

Tentmaker here is saying aeonios does not mean eternal, then later on he contradicts himself and states that it does.

No contradiction -- you're reading too hastily.

“Behold the immensity of time (aion) behind thee, and before thee another boundless expanse.”

The word "boundless" used to destribe time ahead wasn't aion. The phrase "immensity of time" used to describe time behind was. Not eternal.

As to the later sentence -- it's a shame you have trouble understanding this -- it's saying that it's possible to use aion in a sentence and imply a time which is eternity -- that's not the same as saying the word aion means eternity, so it's not a contradiction.

Let me give you an example of a word not meaning something, but then, the word being used in a way that implies it.

Does the word "angel" mean, "a sexy woman"? No?

"Vanessa walked into the room, her long red dress flowing with her shapely body.
'So what do you think of her?' Joe asked.
Tony sighed. "She is an angel.""

Ah-HA! The word "angel" does not mean, a supernatural messenger from God. It means, a beautiful woman.

Unless, of course, the word "angel" doesn't mean, a beautiful woman, but can be used in a context to imply, a beautiful woman.

So as I have stated, universalists when pressed will admidt that aaion means eternal

The author of that article was pressed? Who was pressing him? May be his shirt was pressed..

The obstinate will refuse to accept the reality before them. I've presented contexts clearly demonstrating "aion" used to mean limited durations.

Non-universalists, when pressed -- at least some of them -- will completely ignore the facts, pretend they've never been stated, and go on repeating straw men and false claims, over and over again.

I must state, as an aside, meant in no means in anger and said kindly and as Christian advise, that repeating false claims regarding another, which is what repeated straw man arguments with knowledge really are, is false witness, lying against your neighbor, and that's something against God's 10 Commandments. But enough preaching.

Certain opponants of universal salvation have no real arguments, so they pretend their current arguments haven't been debunked, and repeat them, and they pretend they don't know their straw men are straw men, and they repeat them, over and over, ad infinitum.

I presented a list of 'olwam verses (which was promptly ignored) that proved conclusively that owlam couldn't have meant "eternal." Duck2 admitted "owlam" and "aion" mean the same thing.

Here's a KJV aion verse.

Collosians 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages (aion) and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

If the mystery was hid forever, how can it be said that it's now made manifest?

If you don't like the King James Version, look around -- not a single translation says aion means eternal in Collosians 1:26.

I challenge you to prove that Collosians 1:26 contains "aion" meaning "eternal."

I dare you to. Or shall we say.. I press you!

The question is, when pressed, do non-universalists:

A. Admit the clear fact that that "aion" doesn't mean "eternal" in Collosians 1:26.

B. Pretend they didn't read this post. Ignore the clear facts. Hide their eyes. Put their head in the sand. Go into a spiralling denial. Then repeat the same nonsense again.

or,

C. Actually demonstrate that the King James Translators and every other translator was completely wrong, and Collosians 1:26 contains "eternal" (aion.)

I'm betting on B.

A is possible, though it hasn't been duck's pattern.

C? It ain't going to happen.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

One other thing.

therefore since universalism is dependant on this illogicality, its foundation crumbles thus crashing universalism like the WTC on 9-11.

Poor choice of analogy, and not only because it's your claims which had the illogicality, as I demonstrated in the last post.

I lost a family member in the World Trade Center, as well as another person I knew, a family friend.

Do not ever compare your hallucinated crumbling of the sincere faith of another human being -- with the event that killed that person's friends.

Do not use the actual death of my family member and my friend as an analogy for your imagined death of my faith.

Al Queda might think that universal salvation through Christ died the day their evil act occurred -- but Christians do not.

And, frankly, as a person who has seen the suffering caused that day, and as a patriotic American, I find it appalling, regardless of the fact that you used it against my faith. Don't use it against any faith. Don't use it against the Buddhist faith, or against the Hare Krishna faith. Use it only as an example against hatred, against violence, against terrorism. But never, never use 9/11 as an analogy to lash out against a person innocent of such hatred, such violence, or such terrorism.

Charlie

 

[BoopieSasa]

I'm sorry for your loss, Charlie.

 

[Kimberlyann]

Charlie,

I'm sorry too.

 

[StudentoftheWord]

 

[Charlie V]

Thank you, friends.

I just wish people wouldn't use this tragedy for their own purposes.

Charlie