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God <<staff edit>> America!

C

catlover

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Smart AND a pretty severe dyslexic! :eek:
tulc(and a Christian) ;)

Wow--how did he do it then?

Arithmatic and Science are one of the worst subjects for me.A <---REDUNDANT SENTENCE...don't mind me...I have a touch of the flu-I move my head and it feels like it keeps going.

I WANT To get it, but alas my short term memory is extremely poor.
 
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spinningtutu

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Ah, but here is the glitch:

*There is a God, and this God can and WILL condemn (see, I'm being good now) nations that fail to live up to basic moral standards of how people are treated... regardless of what religion that nation is or isn't.

*Christians have Jesus to look at for what being ethical means. If you're going to say you are a Christian, you have to take some of the hard things Jesus said more seriously. In a nation where about 3/4ths of the people claim to be Christian of some flavor, you'd think we'd have no poor people. So, back to the pulpit, yes absolutely the politics of Jesus need to be preached from the pulpit, more so than anywhere else.

but the glitch

*Nations are run by people. People are imperfect and do not, and cannot rule perfectly. So, the quest is to find ways to be pragmatic (what works), while being fair to everyone in the country and while bringing the nation to basic moral requirements (so as to not incur condemnation).

Because it has also been proven that nations which become especially corrupt in their treatment of people are condemned from the inside out.

The late great Babylonian Empire.
The late great Roman Empire.
The late great American Empire.

Our clock is ticking. Seriously.
 
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Gukkor

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Ah, but here is the glitch:

*There is a God, and this God can and WILL condemn (see, I'm being good now) nations that fail to live up to basic moral standards of how people are treated... regardless of what religion that nation is or isn't.

*Christians have Jesus to look at for what being ethical means. If you're going to say you are a Christian, you have to take some of the hard things Jesus said more seriously. In a nation where about 3/4ths of the people claim to be Christian of some flavor, you'd think we'd have no poor people. So, back to the pulpit, yes absolutely the politics of Jesus need to be preached from the pulpit, more so than anywhere else.

but the glitch

*Nations are run by people. People are imperfect and do not, and cannot rule perfectly. So, the quest is to find ways to be pragmatic (what works), while being fair to everyone in the country and while bringing the nation to basic moral requirements (so as to not incur condemnation).

Because it has also been proven that nations which become especially corrupt in their treatment of people are condemned from the inside out.

The late great Babylonian Empire.
The late great Roman Empire.
The late great American Empire.

Our clock is ticking. Seriously.

Except we're not an empire. Fairly insignificant difference when it comes to moral decay and all that, but still.
 
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intrepid

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Institutional racism is still racism. Why are most medical studies done on white males-?
Never heard this ~ what's your source?
Why are their more billboards in inner cities that advertise cigarrettes than in say a suburban area, why are African Americans more likely to die from lung cancer when they smoke less than whites?

If a cigarette (one "r") company advertises in a given area, how is that racism? How do you know that there (not "their") are more? Again, what are your sources? Also, what is the point of the lung cancer comment and what are your sources?
You say this society is less racist?
Yeah, I did say that; it is. I also remember "Whites Only" signs over water fountains and over the front seats in the busses in Dallas. Stuff you never saw, never will see. I reduced your font size because I felt like you were yelling at me. You weren't, were you?

Peace and love.
 
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intrepid

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In the first place, I promise you that I got a friendlier reception as the only white guy in the building than he would as the only black guy in your church. Yes, I mean your church--your liberal, open-minded church with no black people in it (or, even worse, a couple of well-dressed black people who can assuage your guilt without challenging your assumptions).
Alan
You're prejudging a lot of people and their churches, Alan. To prejudge is to be, well, prejudiced, isn't it?

Peace and love
 
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intrepid

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Anything is better than this idiot we have in office now...the man has ruined this country. I have met people who voted for him for the most idiotic reasons.

One lady stated she voted for the half whit because she "didn't want gays to adopt."

In 2000 our choices were Bush and Gore. Bush was the governor of my state and pretty good at it. Gore was the #2 man in the most corrupt administration of the 20th century.

Four years later it was Kerry. In 1971, speaking before Congress, he said that I killed babies, cut off ears and acted like Ghengis Khan. I didn't do that and don't know any VN vet who did. He will never get my vote for anything.

Those are my reasons. BTW, the country hasn't been ruined. Thanks for not yelling at me.

Peace and love.
 
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catlover

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Never heard this ~ what's your source?

If a cigarette (one "r") company advertises in a given area, how is that racism? How do you know that there (not "their") are more? Again, what are your sources? Also, what is the point of the lung cancer comment and what are your sources?

Yeah, I did say that; it is. I also remember "Whites Only" signs over water fountains and over the front seats in the busses in Dallas. Stuff you never saw, never will see. I reduced your font size because I felt like you were yelling at me. You weren't, were you?

Peace and love.


Tobacco Industry Documents and the African American Community

Joint Project of
The National African American Tobacco Prevention Network and
The University of Dayton School of Law


Kiss of death


Kiss of death:
African Americans and the Tobacco Industry,
Claudia Morain
11/15/93 American Medical News 13,
American Medical Association,
Monday, November 15, 1993;
Vol. 36, No. 43.



Around noon on a July day in the tiny town of Mineola, Tex., dozens of prominent townsfolk gathered outside an old hotel. They had come to pay a hero's tribute -- complete with medallion, proclamation, and the first key ever made to Mineola -- to their most famous native son, Willie Brown. Brown rose from poverty and segregation in the 1940s to become one of the most powerful state legislators in the country. For more than a decade, the black Democrat has been speaker of the California Assembly. Harold Plunk, Mineola's chamber of commerce president, praised Brown's fortitude. Mayor Ralph Bruner heralded him as a role model for young people. No one, however, mentioned the tobacco money...
According to a study by the University of California, San Francisco, Brown pocketed $221.367 from tobacco interests during 1991 and 1992 -- four times more than Sen. Wendell Ford (D, Ky.), the largest congressional recipient during the period. The industry gave Brown the money as it girded for battle against a bill to ban smoking in virtually all enclosed public spaces in California, where one in eight Americans lives. Its supporters blame Brown for the measure's failure. Brown declined to comment on his industry contributions or his role in the smoking ban's defeat.

His relationship with the tobacco industry exemplifies a decades-old interdependence between tobacco and black America, ties few have challenged in the past. That's changing now, as awareness grows of the heavy toll tobacco takes on minorities -- and of the industry's heavy-handed efforts to lure more of them to smoke. Increasingly, black physicians and other minority leaders are denouncing tobacco, an industry that has done more both to benefit and bury African-Americans than perhaps any other enterprise.

In July, the National Medical Assn. and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention launched one of the biggest public anti-smoking projects ever aimed specifically at blacks. The $200,000 public-advertising campaign encourages blacks to kick cigarettes. It also calls on African-American organizations to re-examine their ties to tobacco, and to take a more active part in the anti-smokiong movement.

"Young people in the African-American community are being targeted by the tobacco industry; their neighborhoods are filled with billboards showing smoking as pleasant and glamorous," says Leonard E. Lawrence, MD, president of the NMA, which represents 17,000 minority physicians. "We've asked some of our brother and sister organizations to take a look at the financial support they may receive from tobacco corporations, and to consider that this may give a double message to young people about what is and isn't acceptable."

Special relationships


http://academic.udayton.edu/health/NAATPN/kiss.htm



What is Institutional Racism?

Institutional racism is a form of racism which is structured into political and social institutions. It occurs when institutions, including corporations, governments and universities, discriminate either deliberately or indirectly, against certain groups of people to limit their rights. Race-based discrimination in housing, education, employment and health for example are forms of institutional racism. It reflects the cultural assumptions of the dominant group, so that the practices of that group are seen as the norm to which other cultural practices should conform (Anderson and Taylor, 2006). Institutional racism is more subtle, less visible, and less identifiable than individual acts of racism, but no less destructive to human life and human dignity. The people who manage our institutions may not be racists as individuals, but they may well discriminate as part of simply carrying out their job, often without being aware that their role in an institution is contributing to a discriminatory outcome. This not only threatens the efforts to improve health care for all Americans, but it also creates problems for a society that continues to struggle with a legacy of racial discrimination and oppression (Copeland, 2005). Although institutional racism may not necessarily be caused by intentional racism, it does however have very serious consequences for people of color in the United States especially in the health care system.



http://institutionalracism.net/default.aspx

Health Conditions: In 2003, the death rate for African Americans was higher than Whites for heart diseases, stroke, cancer, asthma, influenza and pneumonia, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, and homicide.
http://www.omhrc.gov/templates/browse.aspx?lvl=2&lvlID=51
 
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C

catlover

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The dual system for blacks and whites is not the result of doctors' bias but rather geographic segregation, the authors say, and may help explain the higher rates of disease and death that persist among blacks.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/05/disparities_found_in_health_care_for_blacks/

Compared with whites, young African-Americans have a two-to-three-fold greater risk of ischemic stroke (caused by a clogged blood vessel), and African-American men and women are more likely to die of stroke.
The 1997 death rates for stroke were 61.5 for white males and 88.5 for African-American males; and 57.9 for white females and 76.1 for African-American females

http://www.cbhn.org/facts.htm

(di FAK-toh, day FAK-toh) Racial segregation, especially in public schools, that happens “by fact” rather than by legal requirement. For example, often the concentration of African-Americans in certain neighborhoods produces neighborhood schools that are predominantly black, or segregated in fact (de facto), although not by law (de jure). 1
 
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Gukkor

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We're not?

By what criterion?

By the criterion of what an empire is and how it functions. We have a global hegemony in a cultural sense, to be sure, but we have achieved this primarily through trade and other such means, rather than through direct military action as an empire does. We also do not an individual ruler with powers on par with those of a monarch or dicator. America has had its imperialist moments (especially during the Age of Imperialism, believe it or not :p ), specifically the Spanish-American War and that whole Manifest Destiny thing, but these were aberrations (and the imperial gains of the former event have largely been undone, in any case) in what has historically been a largely isolationist attitude. The Japanese and West German occupations were not, in fact, imperialistic, as we never intended to stay there forever and make them U.S. colonies or territories, but to build them up into worthwhile trade partners who wouldn't try to kill us. Criticize U.S. policies all you want, but don't use the term "empire" to do it.

Oh, there's another thing. You can criticize U.S. policies all you want. Empires don't typically look kindly on that sort of thing.
 
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freespiritchurch

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You're prejudging a lot of people and their churches, Alan. To prejudge is to be, well, prejudiced, isn't it?

Peace and love
Does your church have a lot of black people in it?

Alan
 
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stumpjumper

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I finally got around to listening to the clips in the OP.

I thought they were interesting and valid in many ways.

It reminds me of something Martin Luther had to say about the Lord's Prayer. Praying that "God's will be done" means that God wills what God wills.

The question is whether or not we affirm God's will in our lives and whether or not we are on God's side. Just saying "God Bless America" doesn't mean God's going to bless us.

Do we bless God in return?

Do our actions testify to a God of self-sacrificing love who loves the world?
 
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intrepid

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Does your church have a lot of black people in it?Alan

No, but not because they're not welcome. And not because they are ostrasized (to exclude, by general consent, from society, friendship, conversation, privileges, etc.). Today I saw blacks, Asians, and an Indian couple. They are all regulars, not Easter attendees.

Over Spring Break (just concluded) about 90 of our high school age youth went to Mexico to build houses (an annual event). About 50 of our middle school age youth went to South Dallas (largely black area) to clean neighborhoods and assist seniors citizens there. We are sponsoring the construction of an AIDS clinic in Africa.

I'm a Methodist ~ open heart, open mind, open door...

...peace and love
 
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Sign Of The Fish Burger

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I believe in separation of church and state on theological grounds, also. But I disagree with you about not talking about political morality from the pulpit.

It's wrong for Christians to force their religion on anybody, but it's not wrong for Christians to call everyone - Christians, non-Christians, and even the Principalities and Powers - to repentance.

John Howard Yoder wrote in the 60s about how this is appropriate. I recommend his book, Christian Witness to the State. It's not light reading, but presents a Christian political ethic that properly respects separation of church and state.
Ooooh another Yoder fan!! I love his book "The Politics of Jesus" I've never met anyone who's read any of his stuff! How fun.
 
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FundamentalistJohn

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Well if it's any consolation, your friendly neighborhood fundamentalist here doesn't like any of the candidates for different reasons. If I had to vote tomorrow from amongst the three viable candidates left I would probably vote for Hilary; although very reluctantly.
 
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