God only loves you if you believe it?

[FireDragon76]

Sounds like you've been "evangelized" by protestant teenagers. There are those out there who've graduated from at least two years of Sunday school and heard a couple of lines from the sermon on the mount and think they're ready to go out and save the world. As soon as they run across their first objection they're not sure how to handle it. It usually doesn't end well.

There are a lot of people out there who should leave the evangelization to evangelists.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[FireDragon76]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed apologetics was actually counterproductive because it tended to treat modern, educated people as fools.

 

[FireDragon76]

Just when I think I have finally found a purpose in life it all completely explodes. At one point I gave a huge chunk of my life's savings to a disabled man who was about to become homeless because I thought God was calling me to do this. It was a total flop. His life is stilling falling apart and he is slipping deeper into depression because the medical bills keep piling up and more family are walking away. I did absolutely nothing useful and now we are both broke. Part of it was his mistake though. I suggested that he seek out other people for help and ministers to help with the depression but he refused due to lack of trust in others. I was the ONLY person he ever met who stepped up to the plate and yet I still failed at this. The irony is that this also destroyed my trust in others.

I was never supposed to do any of this and now my life is probably over. In addition to that I'm going to lose my job pretty soon and the years of my prime are quickly ticking away. So I lost my calling, my future, and human connections are dwindling away. I'm not going to survive this unless something starts making sense.

If somehow this disaster is part of God's loving plan I might not realize it until it is far too late...

You do not need to find a purpose in life or be anything at all, other than what you already are. Jesus said in this life we will have trouble, but we should be of good cheer because he has overcome the world.

It's a noble gesture to help somebody out but you are not required to do so for your salvation, especially if it risks your finances. Its always within your rights to act prudentially.

My advice is to accept what situation in life you have as a gift, to stop trying to please God through this self-imposed yoke, and to go out and live fully now.

 

[Hawkins]

Why does God let babies die from cancer while a useful piece of garbage like me continues to breath air? They had so much potential and I have zero.

It is similar to our legal system. Babies will not be judged thus won't wind up in hell. Every adult will be judged by a covenant he/she is subject to. For a reason, the New Covenant specifies that humans need to believe in Jesus Christ and God to be saved.

A covenant is about a criteria to identify the righteous from the wicked. God never said that He loves the wicked. He wishes them to repent and return during their life time on earth though.

God only loves the righteous but not the wicked. From God's perspective (with a scope of eternity), a covenant can be used to precisely identify the righteous from the wicked. To put it another way, if you can't believe Jesus Christ as specified in the New Covenant, it only means that you will turn wicked in the end. God thus won't be able to save you as even He has to abide by the covenant between God and man.

 

[Sound Doctrine]

There are a lot of people out there who should leave the evangelization to evangelists.[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of people out there who should leave the evangelization to evangelists.

I disagree with your point. It is up to God as to who is going to hear the Gospel and who isn't, and when people hear it, if at all. We are all commanded by Jesus to preach the Gospel. We are commanded to "Preach the word. Be instant in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." We have no power to get anybody saved. The only power we have is to preach it. Jesus saves those whom He receives according to the will of the Father. We don't know who these people are until God manifests Himself in them. Those who don't believe at the time may believe later in time. But we are all commanded to preach. We are all to do the work of an evangelist. We can only improve our quality of evangelism through practice in performing this task. One does not say, "I will be an evangelist." We are all to be evangelists. God works out the rest of what it takes for certain individuals to be saved, according to election.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are a lot of people out there who should leave the evangelization to evangelists.

I disagree with your point. It is up to God as to who is going to hear the Gospel and who isn't, and when people hear it, if at all. We are all commanded by Jesus to preach the Gospel.

We are? This is a frequent assertion, but it seems to me Jesus is commanding this to his apostles specifically. Paul says that the Holy Spirit gives people different gifts. Not all have the gift of preaching.

 

[Sound Doctrine]

We are? This is a frequent assertion, but it seems to me Jesus is commanding this to his apostles specifically. Paul says that the Holy Spirit gives people different gifts. Not all have the gift of preaching.

Not having the gift doesn't wash. We are all commanded to preach the Gospel, and the word of God as the Spirit moves us. There are many professional pastors who can't do public or private speaking worth beans. They are still to preach. Many have a golden gift of speaking but preach false doctrine. Whatever we are commanded to do, do it even if we are not gifted with the talent. Preaching isn't about talking anybody into believing anyway; it is about the listener hearing the word of God that they might hear and believe. These are spiritual commandments, not carnal.

 

[DarkSoul999]

You do not need to find a purpose in life or be anything at all, other than what you already are. Jesus said in this life we will have trouble, but we should be of good cheer because he has overcome the world.

It's a noble gesture to help somebody out but you are not required to do so for your salvation, especially if it risks your finances. Its always within your rights to act prudentially.

My advice is to accept what situation in life you have as a gift, to stop trying to please God through this self-imposed yoke, and to go out and live fully now.

What I am right now is garbage. This is not a gift.

 

[DarkSoul999]

It is similar to our legal system. Babies will not be judged thus won't wind up in hell. Every adult will be judged by a covenant he/she is subject to. For a reason, the New Covenant specifies that humans need to believe in Jesus Christ and God to be saved.

A covenant is about a criteria to identify the righteous from the wicked. God never said that He loves the wicked. He wishes them to repent and return during their life time on earth though.

God only loves the righteous but not the wicked. From God's perspective (with a scope of eternity), a covenant can be used to precisely identify the righteous from the wicked. To put it another way, if you can't believe Jesus Christ as specified in the New Covenant, it only means that you will turn wicked in the end. God thus won't be able to save you as even He has to abide by the covenant between God and man.

So you are saying that I am already damned. Well yes people are very lucky to die before they are old enough to be accountable. I get to witness only their destruction but will never see them restored in paradise. That is what it is truly like to be a cursed individual.

Most of the time I wish someone would knock me out with chloroform and extract my organs for someone more worthy. They could even do it without anesthesia couldn't care less at this point. There are a lot of sweet and simple people out there who have a far better chance of salvation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We are? This is a frequent assertion, but it seems to me Jesus is commanding this to his apostles specifically. Paul says that the Holy Spirit gives people different gifts. Not all have the gift of preaching.

The gospel message is the exception. We are all to preach Christ s saving grace.

Other preaching is to those called.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So you are saying that I am already damned. Well yes people are very lucky to die before they are old enough to be accountable. I get to witness only their destruction but will never see them restored in paradise. That is what it is truly like to be a cursed individual.

Most of the time I wish someone would knock me out with chloroform and extract my organs for someone more worthy. They could even do it without anesthesia couldn't care less at this point. There are a lot of sweet and simple people out there who have a far better chance of salvation.

You really need to believe you are who God says you are

 

[FireDragon76]

The gospel message is the exception. We are all to preach Christ s saving grace.

Sounds like a made up religious rule to me, one of those things Christ died to free us from.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sounds like a made up religious rule to me, one of those things Christ died to free us from.

Ok then.

 

[Hawkins]

So you are saying that I am already damned.

I am saying that you need to repent and return. Try to do so such that you will be the righteous in God's eyes.

 

[Sound Doctrine]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

There is a flawed doctrine in many people's lives, that God gives us each the free will to choose whether to come to Christ and be saved or to continue to reject Him. The Bible teaches us that we come to Christ because the Father draws us to Jesus. The Bible teaches us that all whom the Father gives to Jesus SHALL come to Him, and He that comes to Him He will in no wise cast them out. The Bible teaches us that we can only come to Jesus if the Father gives us the saving faith in Jesus, by grace. We are also taught that no one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ. This is called, in the Bible, election, which in God's definition means "divinely chosen." Many free will believers do not accept this Biblical fact; nevertheless I am not lying to you.

Evangelists mostly believe in free will; thus, they try to talk you into believing, and if you don't believe on that day, you are damned. This is bad theology. I myself have been a Christian for over 30 years and heard the Gospel many times before I finally gave my life over to (surrendered to) Jesus. If you believe in your heart that Jesus Christ alone is Lord and that He died and rose again on the third day, you shall be saved. Jesus then gives you the Holy Spirit who quickens your dead spirit. You see, we all start out in life spiritually dead, in a state of condemnation. Jesus converts us, making us spiritually alive forever, free from condemnation. We can never lose our salvation because we didn't choose it in the first place; God did, from the foundation of the world.

The fact that you care enough to bring this up could very well mean you are being drawn to the Son by the Father. If so, you shall be given eternal life and be raised up at the last day. I hope this is the case for you. Understand that it is up to God as to who gets saved. “8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” - Ephesians 2:8-10

Nobody has the power to save anybody. Only God can do this. Once it is done, it is eternal. False teachers may say one can lose their salvation. Since we can't do any works to earn it, we can't do any works to lose it either. This is not a free license to sin. When saved, sinning will be abhorred by you, as you find you want to please God, not displease Him. I hope this post overrides the rotten evangelism that has been going about in the world. Ask me anything you wish and I will try to help you.

 

[DarkSoul999]

I am saying that you need to repent and return. Try to do so such that you will be the righteous in God's eyes.

What does "return" mean? You are speaking some sort of secret code words....

and I can "try" a billion different things and I'll still find reasons to believe that I'm unrighteous...so....uhhhh

 

[DarkSoul999]

You really need to believe you are who God says you are

but I might not be. There doesn't seem to be any way to completely verify it :/

 

[ToBeLoved]

but I might not be. There doesn't seem to be any way to completely verify it :/

That’s what faith is brother!

 

[DarkSoul999]

That’s what faith is brother!

The most I can do right is "maybe true". I don't know how to have faith as you know it. I have faith in absolutely nothing. I don't even trust my own family.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

All of the ones that have been chosen by God (predestined) will love God sometime before the day in which they take their last breath while here on Earth.

Others are blinded and will never believe in or trust in or love God.

Some will have God as their Father.
Others will have the devil as theirs.

M-Bob