• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured God - More Than Scripture

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Thomas White, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    Over the last few days, I've posted a lot about the Church and Christianity. I believe that there are others like me out there. Like me, you were raised not to question the Church, the Bible, and/or tradition. The insistence on not questioning turned you off from the Church.

    My spiritual journey began at that point. I disliked everything to do with the Church. The prohibition on exploration made no sense. It screamed ignorance. If God existed, wouldn't He be able to stand against scientific inquiry? Giving words to that thought resulted in me being at odds with family, friends, and others that I trusted. In some cases, I was branded an apostate or even a heretic.

    At that lonely intersection of religion, science, and life, I embarked on a journey of self-discovery. I realized that science is the greatest evidence of God. I realized that God's revelation did not begin or end with scripture. More importantly, I realized that the message of Jesus Christ had little to do with what I had seen while growing up.

    Jesus's message is one of love and acceptance. It is about understanding and embracing our differences. It is about seeing beyond those differences and finding a commonality that is evident in all of humanity. It is about compassion and rising above our base desires.

    People will get to the Truth in their own way. Many paths lead to God. We cannot know or judge the hearts and minds of others. We can only seek the answers ourselves. I believe Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. I follow his teachings. I fail often. I don't have enough time to worry about what everyone else is doing.

    If you are like me, if you are lost or confused, I want you to know that it doesn't last. Remain open. Always seek answers. Study and learn. Question the unquestionable. Live your life. Make mistakes. Own those mistakes. Embrace failure. Don't judge others. Don't let the pain of the past define your present. Pray. Meditate. Create your own existential crisis. Love and be loved.

    That's where you will find God.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

    +1,571
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    There is only 1 path to the 1 true God according to the 1 true God.
     
  3. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

    +1,805
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I did not know one is not allowed to question things. That explains why some people get upset with me a whole lot.
     
  4. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    When did God say that? He reveals himself in different ways. All ways lead to Him. The love Jesus Christ has for us is at the end of every path.
     
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +6,790
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Through Jesus, the Creator of the universe.
    There are 1000's of paths to Jesus.
     
  6. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

    +1,571
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    How can all ways lead to him when the Messiah said the road to destruction is wide?

    That would indicate that not all paths lead to God since there is one leading to destruction, and that your understanding of the scripture is incorrect.

    Your thinking and understanding is from the New Age, not from the Scriptures.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  7. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    God is everything. When the person reaches destruction, they will undoubtedly realize God exists. Therefore, the way led to God. It did not lead to salvation, but it led to God.
     
  8. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    Exactly
     
  9. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Member Supporter

    +41,427
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    Hello Thomas, while God makes it clear that nothing besides the Creation itself is necessary to believe that He exists .. e.g. Romans 1:18-20, how can we know anything more than that about Him apart from special revelation which, in most cases, amounts to that which was recorded from and about Him in the Scriptures :scratch:

    You, in fact, quoted from part of His special revelation when you told us that:
    You continue..........
    Considering the qualifying phrase at the end of verse you quoted above (but did not include), John 14:6b, as well what the Lord had to say in many other places in the Bible, can it actually be said that there are "many paths to God", or that the Bible is all about the kind of love that embraces and accepts our differences apart from the truth?

    John 14
    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

    Acts 4
    12 There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

    1 Corinthians 13
    6 Love .. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.

    Finally (from a different POV), the Dalai Lama was at an international, ecumenical religious conference a few years ago. When pressed by a reporter there about a number of Christianity's principle truth claims he was (reluctantly) forced to admit that the principle tenets of Tibetan Buddhism and Christianity cannot be harmonized.

    Thanks!

    --David
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  10. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Member Supporter

    +41,427
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    Hello again Thomas, when we speak of a way or path that "leads to God", it always means leads to salvation, to our being with Him (and He with us) in the eternity to come. A path that leads to one's eternal damnation and eternal separation from God is a path that leads AWAY from God, is it not :scratch:

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  11. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    Ok. You're not getting what I am saying. Jesus is the way to salvation. He is God. There's an infinite number of ways in which someone can find Jesus. All paths will lead to the knowledge of God's existence. That does not mean someone will trust in Christ for salvation. So many times, Christians will say, you have to do "..." to get to Jesus. If you don't follow that path, you aren't going to find him. That belief simply is not true. Everyone has their own journey to God. It will differ from person to person. Refusing to acknowledge that we all have different paths doesn't change the reality that we do, but more often than not, I see people who claim to be Christians refusing to accept our differences.
     
  12. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    God is infinite. His revelation is not contained only in the scriptures. His Truth is too large. But as we learn more and more about the universe, we learn more and more about His creation. He spoke to humans for thousands of years. He didn't stop speaking 2,000 years. He STILL speaks to us. Every time we do math, we use the language of the universe. We find order within chaos. That order is the power of God, the all-knowing, all-powerful creator who designed the order of the cosmos. The Bible is a great source of divine Truth, but it is not the only source.
     
  13. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Member Supporter

    +41,427
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    Hi Thomas, we know that the Holy Scriptures do not contain the entirety of God's revelation about Himself (the Bible agrees with your assessment, BTW .. e.g. Psalms 19:1-6; Romans 1:19-20), because looking to the Heavens, and/or to other parts of the Creation (or to Calculus), or even looking at a shoe (see: Renewing Your Mind | The Existence of Shoes | Jan 5, 2018) confirms the existence of a Creator/Intelligent Designer for us. In the end however, there is little more that general revelation can reveal to us about Him.

    Therefore, the VAST majority of the specifics that we need to know about Him, as well what He expects from us/wants for us, etc., comes from His special revelation to us, and that information (special revelation) is almost always found in the Bible alone.

    Jesus (and the Apostles) showed us how important they believed the written word of God is when they held the Scriptures up as our regula fidei (rule of faith), and as their chosen way of proving that their teachings were/are authoritative, saying things like, "it is written.........", again and again and again throughout the Gospels and the Epistles.

    God bless you! (Joshua 1:8; Psalm 1:1-3, 119:9-11, 105; John 17:17; Romans 12:2, 15:4; 2 Timothy 3:16-17)

    --David
    p.s. - I love passages of Scripture that are commands with promises attached. Here is one of my very favorites :)

    Deuteronomy 11
    18 You shall impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.
    19 You shall teach them to your sons, talking of them when you sit in your house and when you walk along the road and when you lie down and when you rise up.
    20 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates,
    21 so that your days and the days of your sons may be multiplied on the land which the LORD swore to your fathers to give them, as long as the heavens remain above the earth.

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  14. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Member Supporter

    +41,427
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    Hello again Thomas, I've found it difficult to express my thoughts properly and/or get my point across to others many times on this medium, so I'm not surprised that I haven't been getting what you've been saying in this case, and I appreciate you taking your time to clarify things for me :)
    It would be helpful to hear some examples of the many ways that you believe that people come to know Jesus (only if you have the time, of course). I do agree with you about that (that there are many ways), as long as all of the ways that lead us away from the many false teachings, prophets and gods in this world, and towards Him/the truth about Him instead, happen while we are still on this side of the grave ;)

    Of course, if we want to get "technical", the Bible tells us that there is only one way to Jesus, and that is by the Father drawing/compelling us and giving us permission to come to Him .. John 6:44, 65. This I believe He does by changing us and then making us in wholly new creatures .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:4-5, 10, and by His outward call to us as well, the hearing of the Gospel (which we are finally able to respond to because of all the changes that He wrought in us).

    Romans 10
    17 Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

    The Bible also tells us that ~all~ who are drawn by/given to Jesus by His Father will choose to come to Him and be saved, that none of these drawn ones will ever be lost, and that all of us who are His, will, in fact, be raised up by Him on the last day .. e.g. John 6:37-40 :amen:

    Blessings to you in Christ,
    David

    John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
    All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  15. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    Tell me, how does God want us to address a world leader that lies about nuclear deals so that he can force the hand of the international community to create more favorable economic conditions for his country?

    That question is not easy to answer with the Bible. Naturally, lying is wrong, but how do we respond? How do we avoid an international incident? How do we avoid a domestic incident? At what point do we invade the country? We must pray that God grants us understanding.

    We have to consider everything in scripture in the context in which it was written. You quote Deuteronomy and suggest that we should follow it. Moses also wrote Leviticus and Exodus. In Exodus 21:7 he condones selling one's daughter into slavery. In Leviticus 25:44, he clarifies that slaves should only be bought from another country.

    Of course, slavery is wrong. God did not change his mind on this. Moses wrote it during a time when slavery was commonplace. To know this, we have to understand the context. He wrote to an audience that would reject the idea of not having slaves. Our society is different now, so we must also understand our present context. God will reveal how we should act now, but when studying the scripture, we can't always take it literal. We have to consider the context and whether or not it applies to now. God will reveal the truth to us. We must have faith and seek that truth. Constantly.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +4,625
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    In that sense - then the wicked faced with the great white throne judgment in Rev 20 - come face to face with God - and are cast alive into the lake of fire.

    Jesus of course died on the cross to save mankind from that horrible end - and freely offers that way of escape to all who will accept the gift that involves death to self, death to sin, death to the sinful nature and being "alive in Christ".

    But Christ considers it "unsatisfactory" to settle for "well I saw God before I was cast into the lake of fire" so as we see in 2 Peter 3 "God is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" - even so God allows mankind to "choose" life or death - and sadly most choose death according to Matthew 7.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +4,625
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    I suppose you are talking about N. Korea -- but from God's POV all are lost - all need the Gospel - even North Koreans.
     
  18. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    Yes, North Korea.
     
  19. Thomas White

    Thomas White Active Member

    457
    +287
    United States
    Methodist
    Married
    I agree with everything you wrote.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +4,625
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    You are in favor of "asking the hard questions" -- so am I .

    I don't claim that all questions are answered this side of heaven - but in every case where mankind makes a horrible choice in favor of the majority and opposed to Bible truth - it is because they were not asking the 'hard questions'

    Jesus' mission was not what religious leaders of his day expected.

    Paul's gospel was not what his own religious instructors told him to expect.

    Martin Luther's gospel was not what the religious teachers that taught him the gospel - expected.

    So now let's take another look at that "red pill"...

    Today at 8:58 AM #1
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  21. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +27,559
    Anglican
    Married
    I don't quite agree with all that's in that paragraph, but to the extent that Jesus taught love, mercy, and fellowship...

    ...it is also true that he emphasized, taught, other lessons even more emphatically. I refer to us knowing the one and only true God, trusting in him (Jesus) for life eternal, adhering to the Commandments, of his sacrificial death by which he took our sins upon himself, and so on.

    and he definitely did NOT teach that. He rejected the notion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
Loading...