God knows the end from the beginning....or does He?

[tall73]

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Did God know what Jesus would say on the cross?


Psa 22:16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet--
Psa 22:17 I can count all my bones-- they stare and gloat over me;
Psa 22:18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

Did God know that Jesus' hands and feet would be pierced?

Did God know they would divide His garments by lot?

Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Did God know where His Son would be born?


ECR, do you call the plan of salvation that God spoke in His word in advance a play act?

 

[tall73]

Luk 24:25 And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?"
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.



God knew before hand how it would go

 

[tall73]

Peter believed God knew:


1Pe 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully,
1Pe 1:11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

 

[Pythons]

This concept of God not knowing how it would all turn out could easily be extended into other areas...
...Such as "the war in heaven"; if Lucifer didn't have a punchers chance of defeating God than the war in heaven.
....Was a farce & a mockery.

The oddity seems to be in this particular question that the same logic that would say Lucifer couldn't have defeated God in heaven....
...Would be the same reasoning that Lucifer couldn't defeat God on earth.


So the question is still standing where it was in the O.P. - does God really know the end from the beginning?
...And how much of the Bible ( and God Himself ) is in reality "conditional"?

 

[tall73]

Philip believed God knew


Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter and like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opens not his mouth.
Act 8:33 In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth."
Act 8:34 And the eunuch said to Philip, "About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?"
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.

 

[tall73]

This concept of God not knowing how it would all turn out could easily be extended into other areas...

Indeed it could.


But I think He knew!

 

[tall73]

Paul believed God knew:

Act 13:26 "Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation.
Act 13:27 For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets, which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him.
Act 13:28 And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed.
Act 13:29 And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead,
Act 13:31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people.
Act 13:32 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers,

 

[Kira Light]

Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Did God know what Jesus would say on the cross?


Psa 22:16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet--
Psa 22:17 I can count all my bones-- they stare and gloat over me;
Psa 22:18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

Did God know that Jesus' hands and feet would be pierced?

Did God know they would divide His garments by lot?

Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Did God know where His Son would be born?


ECR, do you call the plan of salvation that God spoke in His word in advance a play act?

Maybe God was only 99.9999% certain things would go down the way they did. There was a chance He was wrong!

 

[tall73]

Maybe God was only 99.9999% certain things would go down the way they did. There was a chance He was wrong!

Yeah, the sad part is had I asked whether God knew what would happen in Jesus' life, without making it an issue with Ellen White's writings, all of the Adventists would have affirmed it immediately. The prophecies of Jesus are a huge part of Christian and Adventist thinking.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Yeah, the sad part is had I asked whether God knew what would happen in Jesus' life, without making it an issue with Ellen White's writings, all of the Adventists would have affirmed it immediately. The prophecies of Jesus are a huge part of Christian and Adventist thinking.

there are many things that people believe, and when it comes down to egw, nobody no longer knows a thing...

You know I was raised in the SDA but strayed away during adolescence, on e day I came to believe but for about half a year didnt congregate with the SDA, kinda did my own thing, during that time, I never thought about not eating meat, never imagined it would bring me closer to God, after 'joining' with the SDA I was confronted with it...

The effect was that I was no longer really sure what was the right thing...

first: personally I didnt have a problem with meat, meat eaters and stuff

second: the bible didnt really have a problem with it IMHO do God didnt have a problem with it

BUT in the SDA

first: EGW (spokesperson for God) had a problem with it because God had a problem with it or at least it was part of present truth

second: abstaining from meat would bring people closer to God

third: it was encouraged by other SDAs

SO

I remained true to my convictions and never ceased eating meat.

However, I had my doubts about it...

because the SDA said so, called it present truth and 'light'

so if I dont have that conviction don't I have the 'light' then... dont I understand present truth?

or why do I stick to eating meat? am I not humble enough to follow Gods (Egws) counsel?

----

If there was no EGW noone in the SDA would consider meat eating a problem because no such thing can be found in the bible... but then without EGW there probably would be no SDA

 

[Stryder06]

The choice was to go on the mission. They knew how they mission would turn out. There was no risk of failure.




different scenario. God and Jesus made the choice for Him to come to earth. They did know what would happen if that occurred. They knew what the outcome of Jesus' individual choices would be.

Either that or you think God does not know the end from the beginning.

And while you may choose what you want, they know your choices as well and your destiny.

Again, knowing the outcome does not mean that God forcibly controlled the outcome. If God controls the outcome, there is no free choice, and that's a can of worms that I'm sure you don't want to open.

 

[Stryder06]

This concept of God not knowing how it would all turn out could easily be extended into other areas...
...Such as "the war in heaven"; if Lucifer didn't have a punchers chance of defeating God than the war in heaven.
....Was a farce & mockery.

The oddity seems to be in this particular question that the same logic that would say Lucifer couldn't have defeated God in heaven....
...Would be the same reasoning that Lucifer couldn't defeat God on earth.


So the question is still standing where it was in the O.P. - does God really know the end from the beginning?
...And how much of the Bible ( and God Himself ) is in reality "conditional"?

I don't think anyone here stated that God doesn't know the end from the beginning. What's been said is that God is not manipulating the strings of individuals forcing them to do what He wants so that the outcome can be what HE said it would be.

 

[Pythons]

Again, knowing the outcome does not mean that God forcibly controlled the outcome.

Why would He have too Styder & who controlled who here?

If God controls the outcome, there is no free choice, and that's a can of worms that I'm sure you don't want to open.

Stryder,Yes or No - Did God tells us what would happen about our salvaiton before it happened?
...Did God tell us this in the Bible - Yes or No?

Who other than God was in control of Salvation being provided for us Stryder?

 

[tall73]

Again, knowing the outcome does not mean that God forcibly controlled the outcome. If God controls the outcome, there is no free choice, and that's a can of worms that I'm sure you don't want to open.

You appear to be admitting God knew the end from the beginning.

 

[tall73]

I don't think anyone here stated that God doesn't know the end from the beginning. What's been said is that God is not manipulating the strings of individuals forcing them to do what He wants so that the outcome can be what HE said it would be.

So you admit He knew the end from the beginning.

Stryder, if God knew AHEAD OF TIME that the mission would be successful, then He didn't have to manipulate anything. He just sent Him on the mission.

There was no risk. He KNEW.

 

[tall73]

If I am about to send my son walking to school there is a risk, because I don't know what will happen to him on the way.


God did know what would happen to His Son on the way. He knew He would be mocked, mistreated, and die for us--but He would succeed and atone for sin and conquer the devil and be raised to life.

He knew. There was no doubt about how it would go, because He knew it before He ever sent Him.

And He told us through the Scriptures before He ever sent Him.

 

[Kira Light]

If Jesus could have failed, then all of God's prophecy concerning Jesus would have been wrong. If God can be wrong about something then he is neither perfect nor all-powerful. What else might God be wrong about? It is a pretty scary thought that you cannot trust the word of God.

Another way to look at it is that a perfect and all-powerful God can not fail. He set it all up down to the last atom and controls time itself. You think he could botch the plan of salvation? You really want that belief on your permanent record?

 

[Stryder06]

Why would He have too Styder & who controlled who here?




Stryder,Yes or No - Did God tells us what would happen about our salvaiton before it happened?
...Did God tell us this in the Bible - Yes or No?

Who other than God was in control of Salvation being provided for us Stryder?

Sorry you seem so confused on this issue. For all that you willingly accept from your church, something like this should be child's play. No one is denying that Christ was foretold to come and conquer sin. I believe that 100% That however doesn't change the fact that there was still risk involved.

Again, and it's very simple. IF Christ had freedom of choice, then there was RISK invoved, simply because He had a choice.

 

[Stryder06]

If Jesus could have failed, then all of God's prophecy concerning Jesus would have been wrong. If God can be wrong about something then he is neither perfect nor all-powerful. What else might God be wrong about? It is a pretty scary thought that you cannot trust the word of God.

Another way to look at it is that a perfect and all-powerful God can not fail. He set it all up down to the last atom and controls time itself. You think he could botch the plan of salvation? You really want that belief on your permanent record?

You're really not catching what we're saying. Christ was FULLY Human. That is why He is called the second Adam. Just like Adam came into this world without sin, so did Christ. Unlike Adam however, who choose to sin, Christ choose not to sin. If there was no choice involved, then Christ was never tempted. He was never tried. He cannot be our Advocate as the scripture says. He would not know how to succor us. It's really that simple.

 

[Stryder06]

So you admit He knew the end from the beginning.

Stryder, if God knew AHEAD OF TIME that the mission would be successful, then He didn't have to manipulate anything. He just sent Him on the mission.

There was no risk. He KNEW.

I really don't get why this is so hard to get.

Let me ask you this, plain out, could Christ have chosen to sin?