God is not dead nor does he sleep...

[Rescued One]

He established His church with Apostles and Prophets.

Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

I'll address this later. It's quite simple.

First, kindly answer my two questions:

1. Does the Bible tell us how to have eternal life?

2. What other "revelations" do people need?

 

[Rescued One]

I think you're splitting hairs. Christ established His church and His servants on it to be His representatives. Following the Church and it's leaders IS following Christ.

No, Christ never practiced polygamy nor did he ever teach that marriage was a requirement for eternal life. You're spending a lot of time on this thread ---why not be willing to answer questions?

 

[Cassiopeia]

Hmmmm.

Joseph Smith Jr. - illegal polygamy ring, statutory rape of minors, and calling on God to bring "curses" to those who prosecuted him

Brigham Young - more illegal polygamy, prophetic statements that are now denied by the LDS

It seems to me that Mr. Monson is not as nearly as close to following in the footsteps of your founders and Mr. Jeffs has been.

Excuse me. B7, you just hit my alert meter. In JS and BY's day it was not uncommon for a girl of 14 to be wed, for example. Now if it were today where such thngs are not allowed, I'd be right there next to you. But to word what you have a rape, you cause great dismay and blatant disrespect. I thought better of you. That remark is so slanderous I am offended.

And once it was clear that polygamy was illegal in the states, it was stopped.

Abraham and many others in the bible had multiple wives. Would you declare them rapists as well?

 

[Rescued One]

Excuse me. B7, you just hit my alert meter. In JS and BY's day it was not uncommon for a girl of 14 to be wed, for example. Now if it were today where such thngs are not allowed, I'd be right there next to you. But to word what you have a rape, you cause great dismay and blatant disrespect. I thought better of you. That remark is so slanderous I am offended.

And once it was clear that polygamy was illegal in the states, it was stopped.

Abraham and many others in the bible had multiple wives. Would you declare them rapists as well?

Polygamy was outlawed by the Supreme Court in 1862. The LDS church issued the Manifesto in 1890.

Early Mormon pioneers formed a political government which functioned as the State of Deseret between 1849-70, but their petitions for statehood were denied. In 1850, an "outside" form of government was imposed on the area by federal officials. A governor was sent to the new territory, called Utah, to oversee law and order.

It took almost fifty years for lawmakers to admit Utah as an official member of the union. During that time Mormon leaders officially outlawed polygamy. In the autumn of 1895 a constitution was approved, which included granting women the right to vote (one of the first such concessions in the nation). Several months later, on January 4, 1896, Utah was admitted as the 45th state in the union.

Information courtesy of the Governor's Office.
Utah Statehood | Utah.com

 

[Cassiopeia]

They still dropped it and there is no way that polygamists of that day are similar to that hideous Fundamentalist. It just is despicable to insinuate otherwise.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Excuse me. B7, you just hit my alert meter. In JS and BY's day it was not uncommon for a girl of 14 to be wed, for example. Now if it were today where such thngs are not allowed, I'd be right there next to you. But to word what you have a rape, you cause great dismay and blatant disrespect. I thought better of you. That remark is so slanderous I am offended.

And once it was clear that polygamy was illegal in the states, it was stopped.

Abraham and many others in the bible had multiple wives. Would you declare them rapists as well?

As Phoebe Ann has noted above, it was clear that polygamy was illegal in the United States decades before it was suspended by the LDS. Hence, Brigham Young led his band of Mormons outside of the United States into the uncharted territory of Utah in order to practice polygamy. It was only when Utah sought admission as a state of the Union that the revelation was made to suspend polygamy. It has never been officially and completely outlawed in the LDS and can be reinvoked as a lifestyle at any time.

Statutory rape is rape defined by the law. IOW it is illegal to have intercourse with a minor, whether consensual or not. The rationale is that a minor is not held accountable for the acts of an adult and that if the perpetrator is an adult, it is rape by definition. Here is a lengthier Wikipedia link on it - Statutory rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By that definition, none of the patriarchs of the Old Testament committed statutory rape. That they were polygamists is not in question and that polygamy was not illegal then (nor was slavery, for that matter) is also not in question.

I am sorry for the offense I caused, but I stand by my post. As hideous as I personally find Mr. Jeffries and as laudable as current leaders of the LDS may be, it does not hide the sad and sordid origins of the LDS.

 

[AeonJ]

Hmmmm.

Joseph Smith Jr. - illegal polygamy ring, statutory rape of minors, and calling on God to bring "curses" to those who prosecuted him

Brigham Young - more illegal polygamy, prophetic statements that are now denied by the LDS

It seems to me that Mr. Monson is not as nearly as close to following in the footsteps of your founders and Mr. Jeffs has been.

--Polygamy wasn't illegal then

--it was socially acceptable for relations of minors then as well

--I'm not sure about the Joseph cursing others.

--Polygamy wasn't illegal then either

--prophetic or opinionated?

--Monson is living in a different age as well.

 

[AeonJ]

I'll address this later. It's quite simple.

First, kindly answer my two questions:

1. Does the Bible tell us how to have eternal life?

2. What other "revelations" do people need?

I did. Post #19

 

[AeonJ]

No, Christ never practiced polygamy nor did he ever teach that marriage was a requirement for eternal life. You're spending a lot of time on this thread ---why not be willing to answer questions?

I believe the scriptures are silent on whether or not Jesus ever married.

Also Polygamy is not a big issue the church had it for a season then later did not.

Not everything Jesus taught or said is in the Bible either.

 

[skylark1]

God is not dead nor does he sleep...

I just wanted to say that God is, and he still gives revelation today.

And The Lord isn't just up there in Heaven waiting to come again. He speaks with Prophets and Apostles like he did with The Church of Jesus Christ in days past.

Just thought you would like to here the good news or to be reminded of it.

Even though this post is not about polygamy -the subtopic on which this thread appears to have become focused, I think that it is relevant to the title of this thread and to the OP.

The title of this thread is taken from the words of a poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Christmas Bells. We are likely to have heard it in the form of the Christmas Carol, I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day.

Christmas Bells
(The original poem, complete with all seven stanzas)

"I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
The words repeat
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!


And thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along
The unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!


Till, ringing, singing on its way,
The world revolved from night to day,
A voice, a chime
A chant sublime
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!


Then from each black accursed mouth
The cannon thundered in the South,
And with the sound
The carols drowned
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!


It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn
The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!


And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said;
"For hate is strong,
And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"


Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
"God is not dead; nor doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men!"​

This song was written during the Civil war. Longfellow's son had suffered crippling wounds in the war, and his wife had recently died after being caught in a fire in their home. I highlighted the last two stanzas of the poem because I think that they best deliver the message of the poem, and best relate to this thread.

In spite of all of the sin in this world, and in spite of all of the hate that men can muster towards one another, good will prevail. God lives, and he sent to us his only Son, the Savior, Christ the Lord. That is the good news, and it is just as true as it was when the angels appeared to the sheperds 2000 years ago, and said:

10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.​

I don't think that any of us believe that the story ended there, or at the cross. When we proclaim on Easter that "He is risen," we proclaim the Jesus lives. Although we might sometimes find ourselves in despair when we focus on the pain, misery, and hatred still in the world, I think that as Christians we don't believe that God is dead, has turned his back on us, or that he is asleep. Good will prevail over evil.

I believe that God still communicates with men, through the Bible, through other Christians, and through the Holy Spirit. That is revelation. And just to keep us humble, we should remember that God has even used an ass to communicate with Balaam.

Numbers 22

28And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

29And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.

30And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.

31Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.​

If God can use a donkey to bring about his purposes, he can surely use us. I agree that God lives, he does not sleep, and that he still communicates with us today.


Edit: I wanted to add a link to this video. I thought that it was worth watching.

Ed Herrman with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir Longfellow's Christmas - YouTube

 

[RufustheRed]

Nice, very nice post, Skylark

I can only say AMEN!

Have a nice day.

Rufus

 

[RufustheRed]

And what is the Bible exactly but a complication of scripture, scripture a complication of written revelation and revelation a complication of the Word which is given to man. The Word being continuous, is scripture therefore dead?

Did you really mean that the Bible is a complication of revelation(s)?
Perhaps you meant that it is a compilation of said revelation(s). BTW, I do not disagree with you if you meant that it is a compilation of God's will for man. I do not find it complicated. The Gospel is simple and God's words are sweeter than honey for my soul.

Have a great week.

Rufus

 

[Rescued One]

I believe the scriptures are silent on whether or not Jesus ever married.

If marriage is a commandment, someone who is sinless would certainly have kept the commandment and encouraged others to do so.

If the scriptures are silent about Christ's marriage(s), then it obviously wasn't a requirement. LDS are taught to follow the Savior's example.

"All who seek eternal life must follow the example of the Savior by being baptized and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. The prophet Nephi said that the Savior showed us “the gate by which [we] should enter. For the gate by which [we] should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of [our] sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. And then are [we] in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life” (2 Nephi 31:17–18). We will receive eternal life if we endure to the end, keeping our covenants and receiving other ordinances of salvation."
“Baptism,” True to the Faith, (2004), p. 21–26
(Bold mine)

LDS.org - Lessons Chapter - Baptism

The problem is that LDS have a poor view of the Bible, regarding it as an insufficient source of scripture (contradicting 2 Timothy 3:16):

And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:29

Yet LDS extra-biblical scriptures never mention the temple marriage(s) of Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

The Bible is not the full source of information on how to have eternal life for me. So that's neither yes nor a no.

I recall that LDS do not accept that non-LDS have eternal life. So non-LDS either do not have Christ and some LDS do, or 1 John 5:10-12 is not true:

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5

 

[FireOfTheCovenant]

Excuse me. B7, you just hit my alert meter. In JS and BY's day it was not uncommon for a girl of 14 to be wed, for example. Now if it were today where such thngs are not allowed, I'd be right there next to you. But to word what you have a rape, you cause great dismay and blatant disrespect. I thought better of you. That remark is so slanderous I am offended.

And once it was clear that polygamy was illegal in the states, it was stopped.

Abraham and many others in the bible had multiple wives. Would you declare them rapists as well?

The Wives of Joseph Smith - FAQ's
It wasn't common. Average age was 20.

Polygamy continued into the early 1900s and did not end in 1890