God is more willing to save sinners than sinners are to be saved

[Randy777]

Very nice J.
So what does DRAW mean in John 6:44?

It means they shall all be taught by God.
Jesus-It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."

 

[Hammster]

It means they shall all be taught by God.
Jesus-It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."

That’s not what draw means.

 

[renniks]

Because it is only a yes or no question.

I don't think it is. God is willing to save sinners, yes. Is God willing to save sinners who don't want to be saved? No. Does God give all sinners the opportunity to be saved? yes. Will all sinners be saved? No.

 

[renniks]

You believe it is totally up to the sinners then, they come to Christ whenever "they" want?

Where did I say that? We respond to Christ or not. We don't initiate contact. But, God isn't hiding and jumping out and snatching some, then running off and hiding again. His attributes are clearly seen to all who choose not be be blinded by this world.

 

[Randy777]

That’s not what draw means.

That's the gist of what Jesus stated. Those who listen and learn from the FATHER come to Him.
"Come to Him" as in drawn to Him not any other.
If we are enabled by the Spirit at the will of the Father how is that not being taught by God as Jesus stated?

 

[Hammster]

That's the gist of what Jesus stated. Those who listen and learn from the FATHER come to Him.
"Come to Him" as in drawn to Him not any other.
If we are enabled by the Spirit at the will of the Father how is that not being taught by God as Jesus stated?

That’s still not what draw means.

 

[Randy777]

That’s still not what draw means.

I don't care to debate this.

 

[Hammster]

I don't care to debate this.

That’s fine. I don’t either. I wish everyone understood what draw means.

 

[Randy777]

That’s fine. I don’t either. I wish everyone understood what draw means.

What does enable mean? Who enables?
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

 

[Hammster]

What does enable mean? Who enables?
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

Being born again.

 

[Randy777]

Its clear there are many in this world who do not belong to Jesus.

Jesus-All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

 

[Randy777]

Jesus knew who were His from the Father and those who were not.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me

Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away

Peter learned this from the Father as Jesus stated.
Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[JIMINZ]

Where did I say that?

Mainly because of the way you worded your question to Redleghunter, (below)
The highlighted portion sounds like God waits for sinners to be ready to be saved, more than it sounds like anything else.

Why does it have to be yes or no? Of course God is willing to save sinners that want to be saved.

We respond to Christ or not. We don't initiate contact. His attributes are clearly seen to all who choose not be be blinded by this world.

You really believe, sinners who are Servants (Slaves) to sin choose to not be blinded by this world, and turn toward God because of His Clearly Seen Attributes.

If you would take the time to look again at the verses
You would see, God is saying that His Attributes are Clearly seen, but man does not seek Him.

They meaning mankind, became Vain and their foolish heart was darkened where they were then unable to see, so they are without excuse.

In other words Mankind does not possess the ability to see Gods' Attributes and choose Him over the world.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[JIMINZ]

The word "drag" can also be used as when fishermen draw or drag their nets full of fish in Jn 21:6. It can also mean the same thing in Js 2:6 where rich men drag you before the judgment seats.
Thus according to Jn 12:32 Jesus will drag all men unto himself. This carries a more forceful meaning than "draw" as Jesus drags ALL men to himself despite their stubbornness and resistance.

The verse says God Draws all men unto Jesus, not that Jesus does the Drawing

 

[GodsGrace101]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
— Romans 1:18-20

There’s nothing in that passage about drawing. All he’s saying is that the reality of God is evident through His creation.

This would be why it's important to understand the word draw.....does it mean to drag or does it mean to lead, entice, attract,,,,

In Romans 1:19-20 Paul was speaking to the churches about how he wanted to impart to them the faith that would help the the church grow strong in the Lord. Verse 11

Paul had been traveling around the world telling all the good news so that they too may believe and obey Him. Verse 5

In Verse 16 Paul tells the Roman church that this good news was first preached to the Jews alone...but now everyone is invited to come to God...

Verse 17b The man who finds life will find it by trusting God.

BUT God reveals his wrath from heaven against all SINFUL, EVIL MEN...who do not want to know the truth. Verse 18

Because THE TRUTH has been revealed by God from the beginning of times because, since the beginning, men have seen the all things made, the earth, the skies, and thus have known about God's existence...

And so, they will have NO EXCUSE when they appear before God.

The above does indeed state that God has ALWAYS attracted, drawn, man to Hmself from the beginning of time..those that reply will be saved,,,and those that do not reply to God's revelation will be lost.

Man has always known about God because God desires for mankind to know Him. Verse 21

God would have no wrath upon evil men had He not drawn them to Himself first and given them the opportunity to be saved, as stated above.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The word DRAW in 6:44 is the word which is being Defined not any other usage of the word.

The only other places where this particular word Draw is used in in which are all the same Definition.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will (DRAW) all men unto me.

John 21:6
And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to (DRAW) it for the multitude of fishes.

Jas. 2:6
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and (DRAW) you before the judgment seats?

Meaning the same as when GOD Draws us to Himself.

There are 7 other separate Definitions for the word DRAW which are not the same as this one.

I really dislike focusing on a word...so let's forget about what the word draw means in each instance...
BTW, in John 21:6 it means TO PULL.

If you're right and it means to drag or pull...
then John 12:32 means that all men will be saved because Jesus will draw all men to Himself. If He said that then surely it would have happened.

So did Jesus NOT DRAG, PULL all men to Himself?
Was He using an incorrect word?

 

[renniks]

Mainly because of the way you worded your question to Redleghunter, (below)
The highlighted portion sounds like God waits for sinners to be ready to be saved, more than it sounds like anything else.






You really believe, sinners who are Servants (Slaves) to sin choose to not be blinded by this world, and turn toward God because of His Clearly Seen Attributes.

If you would take the time to look again at the verses
You would see, God is saying that His Attributes are Clearly seen, but man does not seek Him.

They meaning mankind, became Vain and their foolish heart was darkened where they were then unable to see, so they are without excuse.

In other words Mankind does not possess the ability to see Gods' Attributes and choose Him over the world.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

It says exactly what I said it does. They choose darkness. God doesn't choose if for them.

 

[renniks]

And so, they will have NO EXCUSE when they appear before God.

Yes, if God did not draw all men, they would have the perfect excuse for not responding.

 

[Hammster]

This would be why it's important to understand the word draw.....does it mean to drag or does it mean to lead, entice, attract,,,,

In Romans 1:19-20 Paul was speaking to the churches about how he wanted to impart to them the faith that would help the the church grow strong in the Lord. Verse 11

Paul had been traveling around the world telling all the good news so that they too may believe and obey Him. Verse 5

In Verse 16 Paul tells the Roman church that this good news was first preached to the Jews alone...but now everyone is invited to come to God...

Verse 17b The man who finds life will find it by trusting God.

BUT God reveals his wrath from heaven against all SINFUL, EVIL MEN...who do not want to know the truth. Verse 18

Because THE TRUTH has been revealed by God from the beginning of times because, since the beginning, men have seen the all things made, the earth, the skies, and thus have known about God's existence...

And so, they will have NO EXCUSE when they appear before God.

The above does indeed state that God has ALWAYS attracted, drawn, man to Hmself from the beginning of time..those that reply will be saved,,,and those that do not reply to God's revelation will be lost.

Man has always known about God because God desires for mankind to know Him. Verse 21

God would have no wrath upon evil men had He not drawn them to Himself first and given them the opportunity to be saved, as stated above.

We are talking about “draw”. Paul never mentions it in Romans 1. It’s not even implied. You have to read it into the passage.

 

[Hammster]

I really dislike focusing on a word...so let's forget about what the word draw means in each instance...
BTW, in John 21:6 it means TO PULL.

If you're right and it means to drag or pull...
then John 12:32 means that all men will be saved because Jesus will draw all men to Himself. If He said that then surely it would have happened.

So did Jesus NOT DRAG, PULL all men to Himself?
Was He using an incorrect word?

He wasn’t. You have to go back to verse 20 to see the context. Greeks came. They wanted to see Jesus. He doesn’t see them, but talks about His death, and glorifying His Father. Then He says when He is lifted up (crucified), He will draw all men to Himself. This means not just the Jews, but Greeks and others as well. So “all” here means “all types”.